quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
[

My truck is 20 years old, the tractor 38 years old, and Joyce's wagon is 12 years old. We plan on driving them to our funerals.

A 20 year old truck? I have had younger girlfriends!

Just kidding.

From the girl's standpoint, were they mercy dates?
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Also agree with Mike Jines on the taxidermy, yet we will pay and have the Leopards sent over and mounted. Otherwise I feel like I haven't completed something.

Having the Elephant hunt video'd has sold me on that idea perhaps as a substitute for the taxidermy. But I've looked at the Lion in our great room more than I've re-watched the Elephant video so it's all a personal call I think.

Hey Jim,

I consider you and many other here to be friends. However, at the risk of receiving an internet beating, I strongly disagree with this new thought process of killing animals simply to take their photograph.

I got into this same "debate" over on 24hour. My position is, if you simply kill these incredible animals for the hunting experience and then only take their photograph, you have, by definition reduced the value of that animals life to a few megapixels of digital information on a camera card.

If the "hunting experience" is what you desire, why not just take pictures? If the hunting experience just isn't complete without the kill (which, I agree with) I feel there is a greater responsibility accepted than just a picture?

What say you?

Not Frostbit...

I have shot my share of animals over there, and so far have had every one except game scout rations and non trophy bait animals brought back.

So far for me, I don't feel right leaving it over there. I have left hide and capes on occasion...how many buffalo shoulder mounts does one need?

However, from a moral and philosophic level I think our goal is to see the animal appropriately utilized. I would have great difficulty leaving something in the bush, only in the case of an emergency do I see that warranted. Consumptive use has been and will continue to be the most effective use of the resource in most areas...how many phototourists are going to go to a marginal area where they may see only a few Impala from the vehicle?

Just because someone leaves a skull or some hide behind does not mean they did not fully utilize the animal. They contribute to the community the same as if you bring it back, etc.

To me the big "issue" is that if you want to get the biggest and the best animal possible, if your outfitter knows you are just after photos, he might be tempted to just have you shoot a representative trophy. If that is not a concern to you, it's a non issue.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Also agree with Mike Jines on the taxidermy, yet we will pay and have the Leopards sent over and mounted. Otherwise I feel like I haven't completed something.

Having the Elephant hunt video'd has sold me on that idea perhaps as a substitute for the taxidermy. But I've looked at the Lion in our great room more than I've re-watched the Elephant video so it's all a personal call I think.

Hey Jim,

I consider you and many other here to be friends. However, at the risk of receiving an internet beating, I strongly disagree with this new thought process of killing animals simply to take their photograph.

I got into this same "debate" over on 24hour. My position is, if you simply kill these incredible animals for the hunting experience and then only take their photograph, you have, by definition reduced the value of that animals life to a few megapixels of digital information on a camera card.

If the "hunting experience" is what you desire, why not just take pictures? If the hunting experience just isn't complete without the kill (which, I agree with) I feel there is a greater responsibility accepted than just a picture?

What say you?

Impossible to do Steve. I would have to stop hunting.

Taxidermy will fill up a house very fast if one hunts more than a few safaris.

First safari I shot 8-10 animals

Second safari 6-8 animals

Third safari 20 plus

Fourth 6 animals

Where will I put all these animals ?

Cape Buffaloes and eland should mounts are massive

I have 9-10 ft ceilings - where do I put these animals ?

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
[

My truck is 20 years old, the tractor 38 years old, and Joyce's wagon is 12 years old. We plan on driving them to our funerals.

A 20 year old truck? I have had younger girlfriends!

Just kidding.

Oh but her curves are so sexy...

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
[

My truck is 20 years old, the tractor 38 years old, and Joyce's wagon is 12 years old. We plan on driving them to our funerals.

A 20 year old truck? I have had younger girlfriends!

Just kidding.

From the girl's standpoint, were they mercy dates?
Cal

OUCH!! That left a mark.

Comedians!

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Also agree with Mike Jines on the taxidermy, yet we will pay and have the Leopards sent over and mounted. Otherwise I feel like I haven't completed something.

Having the Elephant hunt video'd has sold me on that idea perhaps as a substitute for the taxidermy. But I've looked at the Lion in our great room more than I've re-watched the Elephant video so it's all a personal call I think.

Hey Jim,

I consider you and many other here to be friends. However, at the risk of receiving an internet beating, I strongly disagree with this new thought process of killing animals simply to take their photograph.

I got into this same "debate" over on 24hour. My position is, if you simply kill these incredible animals for the hunting experience and then only take their photograph, you have, by definition reduced the value of that animals life to a few megapixels of digital information on a camera card.

If the "hunting experience" is what you desire, why not just take pictures? If the hunting experience just isn't complete without the kill (which, I agree with) I feel there is a greater responsibility accepted than just a picture?

What say you?

I hear what you are saying and certainly on the first couple Safaris I would have never though of leaving something behind. Actually we have never left anything other than the Elephant last year and that wasn't my decision.

If I were to hunt Africa again I would be very selective about bringing something back to mount.

I now look at our taxidermy and they are in a way a 3D picture.

Once I kill an animal it's dead. It does;t care one bit about what I do with it.

The shared experience and memory mean more to me than some hide artfully placed over foam.

Cheers
Jim

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Also agree with Mike Jines on the taxidermy, yet we will pay and have the Leopards sent over and mounted. Otherwise I feel like I haven't completed something.

Having the Elephant hunt video'd has sold me on that idea perhaps as a substitute for the taxidermy. But I've looked at the Lion in our great room more than I've re-watched the Elephant video so it's all a personal call I think.

Hey Jim,

I consider you and many other here to be friends. However, at the risk of receiving an internet beating, I strongly disagree with this new thought process of killing animals simply to take their photograph.

I got into this same "debate" over on 24hour. My position is, if you simply kill these incredible animals for the hunting experience and then only take their photograph, you have, by definition reduced the value of that animals life to a few megapixels of digital information on a camera card.

If the "hunting experience" is what you desire, why not just take pictures? If the hunting experience just isn't complete without the kill (which, I agree with) I feel there is a greater responsibility accepted than just a picture?

What say you?

Not Frostbit...

I have shot my share of animals over there, and so far have had every one except game scout rations and non trophy bait animals brought back.

So far for me, I don't feel right leaving it over there. I have left hide and capes on occasion...how many buffalo shoulder mounts does one need?

However, from a moral and philosophic level I think our goal is to see the animal appropriately utilized. I would have great difficulty leaving something in the bush, only in the case of an emergency do I see that warranted. Consumptive use has been and will continue to be the most effective use of the resource in most areas...how many phototourists are going to go to a marginal area where they may see only a few Impala from the vehicle?

Just because someone leaves a skull or some hide behind does not mean they did not fully utilize the animal. They contribute to the community the same as if you bring it back, etc.

To me the big "issue" is that if you want to get the biggest and the best animal possible, if your outfitter knows you are just after photos, he might be tempted to just have you shoot a representative trophy. If that is not a concern to you, it's a non issue.

The issue isn't really about consumption. To me, I feel killing, simply for the sake of taking a photograph is a not accepting the full responsibility of "Safari."

I guess my feelings are a bit arcane and chivalrous as to the traditions and romance of Africa. I'm not trying to attach any morality or lack of morality to this, for others.

My father was a hard and rough man. His words were stern but his lessons on life were meaningful.

He once saw me shoot a mockingbird off of our TV antenna with a Benjamin Franklin .22 pellet rifle. The bird spiraled helplessly to the ground.

My father walked out of the garage, wiping his oily hands off on a rag. He told me to pick up the bird and ring its neck. I look at him a bit puzzled. He said, "Son, you just tried to take that birds life, Either finish it or nurse it back to health."

Taking a life for me isn't the end of the process, it is simply part of the process of being a sportsman. As sportsman, we must walk a fine, and at times indistinguishable line between Conservationist and Environmentalist, without one the other cannot exist.

My respect for the lives I've taken is immense. That may sound counterintuitive as a hunter and perhaps it is. BUT, I feel a sense of responsibility greater than a photograph.

I'm not even saying mounts, but something. Skulls, flat skins Euros or whatever. Leaving your trophies behind seems like short circuiting the traditional use of trophies associated with hunting in Africa.

Look at my avatar picture. It is "Lord Derby's Eland", perhaps the holy grail of all antelopes in Africa. I chose to do a full mount. Not saying it must be a full mount to give proper dignity to this fantastic creature but it goes to showing my depth of feelings and respect for a beast of this magnitude. Going to hunt LDE is a large commitment in time, money and effort. Every time I walk by this mount I'm reminded of something else from those long days tracking. A smell, a sound, the feeling of sheer despair after walking for 12 hours only to watch the herd erupt into a morass of more "Miles and miles of bloody Africa."

The feeling of euphoric jubilation as we drove into camp that night with the singing and dancing. A smile of approval from Mike Fell and being carried like a liberating hero into camp. A rush of emotions that I can't see getting from a photograph.

These are my thoughts, my opinions. I am in no way saying they should be yours or anyones else's. We all hunt for different reasons.Your are as important to you as mine are to me.

Steve

I, too, have a hard time not bringing the trophy back. Just doesn't feel right to me. My buff are all euro mounts now or just cleaned skulls I can set around. May be a bit macabre but just the way I am built. And wouldn't dream of leaving an LDE or lifetime trophy behind for a picture, no matter how damn expensive the shipping and taxidermy is. Like Steve, I feel a connection and responsibility to the animals I have hunted.

But to each his own...

While I would agree that killing something just for the sake of a photo seems wrong, really, the point is you went for the experience. If a photo is enough for you to remember the experience by, wonderful, go ahead and that is sufficient.

I try and have a mount, and my journal writing, and other mementoes...used case, the recovered bullet, maybe a pressed tree leaf from the "kabube" ceremony, local hand crafts, a gun case made from the hide, stuff like that.

As long as one remembers that others have different desires and ability to preserve them, we are all good together.

Ahhh hell!

My old boat is a '66, truck is a '69, camp trailer is a '70 and I'm 72. I feel we're all a good match.

Truck's old as that 47 y/o wife mentioned!

I even have a 1918 rifle, well three of 'em actually.

Just about bet they're all going strong long after I'm done.

George

Steve A.,

Your old man sounds a lot like mine. I can live with bringing back skulls only with some animals, but I will never leave everything behind.

quote:

I can live with bringing back skulls only with some animals, but I will never leave everything behind.

Ditto

Tuskless?

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:


My truck is 20 years old, the tractor 38 years old, and Joyce's wagon is 12 years old. We plan on driving them to our funerals.

Jimo they let you Alaskans drive after you're dead? Here in Chicago there
are lots of dead Democrats that vote every year!

I own a restaurant. Very successful but has killed my ability to hunt. We are putting it up for sale today.

I'm an assistant district attorney and have been for the last 23 years. Definitely doesn't pay as well as the private sector, but it's stable and does pay better than painting houses.

Takes me about five years to save up for each trip, which is too bad but at least I get to go! In two weeks I'm taking my son to hunt in Zim with Mokore for his HS graduation present, he as the hunter and me as the photographer.

quote:

Originally posted by Colin Masters:
I own a restaurant. Very successful but has killed my ability to hunt. We are putting it up for sale today.

Brilliant.

I retired from the military and I work as a Safety and Occupational Health Specialist (not for OSHA).

I am finally at the point where I can think about going to Africa again.

I got married late in life and we have 4 girls that are all very young. My father in law has paid for their college. So that isn't really a concern of mine, Africa here we come.

2010 truck with a 120,000 miles on it. I walk to work and we own one vehicle. So far it works.