From the Hunt Report

The stalemate over those fee increases in Tanzania has taken a grim new turn with the Minister of Natural Resources and Tourism rejecting the hunting industry's proposal that proposed fee increases be substantially lowered before they are implemented in 2008. Worse still, the minister has reiterated his previous position that the fee increases will apply this year, to all hunts conducted in 2007. TAHOA (Tanzania Hunting Operators Association) is polling its members as this is written to decide whether to take the matter to court.

It is unclear where this leaves clients who went on safaris to Tanzania this year. Should the new fees stay in place, some of the larger safari operators will probably absorb the added costs. Smaller companies, however, and subcontracting PH's, will likely have no choice but to pass on increased costs to their clients. Almost certainly, some clients will simply abandon their trophies if that happens.

We are going to be following this matter closely in coming days, as the prospect of a confrontation in the courts does not bode well for the future of hunting in Tanzania. The main worry is the continuing disconnect between government and the hunting community. Government simply does not seem to understand that the fee increases they are attempting to push through are wildly excessive. They would leave the country non-competitive. More details shortly. - Don Causey, Editor/Publisher.

I will be sure not to say, "I told you so!", the next time I see Mr. Causey. I wonder how many people who relied on his "advice" are going to lose trophies, etc.

I do like The Hunt Report and find it useful for potentional clients in choosing PH's, etc.... but Mr. Causey got in over his head on this one, unfortunately to the financial loss of many, I'll bet.

I wonder where his mea culpa is?

I don't want to start any rumors but I heard there will be no hunting in Tanz. next year.

Not good news, but the fat lady hasn't yet sung her last tune.

mrlexma:

I absolutely agree and still have my fingers crossed, but:

The ball's in her court,
She has all the marbles,
It ain't an level playing field and
Only the Fat Lady knows the song!

The more I learn the less I tend to understand these things. How can they make it retroactive? The season is basically over in a few weeks. I know it's been discussed endlessly but it makes no sense to me.

Judge, at this time you are scheduled to hunt Zim next year but not TZ, correct?

Sounds like a lot of guys are either going to have to write big checks or kiss their trophies good bye.

Yukon:

Actually, I had two hunts to Zim planned, but may not take one of them. The PH has been quite understanding and will move the deposits back a year if I so decide....

For all the interesting parts of TZ (and there are many), I would much rather take my chances in Zim than to have this happen to me after a TZ hunt. In fact, that's exactly what I did. I cannot imagine sitting around wondering if I am going to have to pay large sums after my trip is over and whether or not I will get my trophies.

quote:

The more I learn the less I tend to understand these things. How can they make it retroactive?

Because they're Blacks, thats how. Go ahead and beat me up. I've said it. This is MHO.

It seems to me that the hunter who has saved all his life for a chance to hunt in Tanzania is going to be out in the cold pretty quick. Granted a lot of the men and women who hunt in Tanzania are people of great means, but I imagine there are a lot of people who are not multi $$$$ holders who have, are or wanted to hunt there.

I think the main reason this is happening is because of all the hard work the good safari operators have done in increasing the game populations and trying to curb the poaching. The GD officials see that things are going well and now have decided to cash in on the crops.

While I have never been to Africa I believe that the hunting community should let Tanz. go to hell. Let the idiots in their game dept. ruin the country in couple of years and then cry to the rest of the world about depleted natural resources. It happened in Uganda and Kenya and now it is Tanzania's turn.

Paul C

Oh well, at least I have the pictures and the memories

When some of the guys here state they spent north of 200k in the last 2 years in TZ and they have had enough...that should speak very loudly into their good ear. But what do I know? I'm just a guy who happens to think Zim PH's are the best in Africa.

There is another rumor I have heard over the last couple of years, that the EU has an offer to triple whatever sport hunting brings in to Tanzan to shut it down. So jack the fees and then take the payoff??? Similar to Kenya. That would be a crock. Just a rumor FWIW.

Jeff

We can find out who is backing this up by seeing who ends up with all the hunting rights that are given up by the people that can't pay up. I guess I am out of the running. If you can't run with the big dogs you best stay under the porch. I will be under the porch with the other small dogs.

Blacktailer:

I agree completely. On top of that my wife says I don't have room for any more animals on the wall anyway. I wouldn't trade the hunt for anything but I will not pay an increased fee to get my trophy shipment out of the country. At least I was able to experience Tanzania.

Joec

the handwriteing has been on the wall for 3 months and a lot of people on this forum have refused to read it. black African government shysters have long looked upon safari hunting as a cash cow waiting to be milked and when the milk runs out, then slaughtered. the rule of law in Africa is a farce and has been replaced by the Golden Rule- he who has the gold( political power) makes the rules. why anyone is surprised by this astounds me. Tz. has been run by socialists/communists every since their independence and this whole fiasco is just a continuation of the same moronic policy. the leaders of this country could care less about poverty/unemployment as a result of curtailment of the safari industry as long as a bunch as rich Arabs buy up hunting rights and turn 50-60 concessions into a few private reserves. 1 year from now look and see hoe owns the hunting rights to most concessions

Please help me put the trophy fee increases in perspective.

What was the average Cape Buffalo fee prior to the increase (say in 2006) and what is the new fee for a Cape Buffalo?

First buff 2006- 900 with con fee
New possible rate- 1725 with con fee

2 species though went down in price with new fees: genet 300 to 285 (Includes con fee), Warthog from 550 to 460.

quote:

Originally posted by Wooly ESS:
Please help me put the trophy fee increases in perspective.

What was the average Cape Buffalo fee prior to the increase (say in 2006) and what is the new fee for a Cape Buffalo?

Bwanamitch,

That list leaves off elephant. Can you post that?

Using these prices only, the price of my Masailand safari would increase by $23,290. Thankfully I saved $185 on the common duiker.

Guys,

The facts of the proposed increases in Tanzania are sobering enough so let's not start rumors. I spoke with Adam this AM. He has heard nothing of hunting being stopped in Tanzania for '08. It would seem that TAHOA will take the matter to court.

Mark

This minister is an f'ing idiot. This along with wanting to do away with foreign investors is insanity.

I just hunted with a bunch of native Tanzanians that just started their own company. They could never have done it without someone from the US putting up the money.

I have been approached by someone to put up the money for a new area. With all of this, there isn't a chance in hell.

The hunting industry in Tanzania should have wised up a long time ago and gone about this a different way. If all of the trophy fees were not paid and held somewhere out of the country, it would really put the squeeze on the government.

We went in September and shot a bunch of stuff. My only regret is that I paid any of the trophy fees.

If I get another bill, I am going to have to think long and hard before I sent the wire transfer.

Personally, I think this is an attempt to put the largely white owned safari companies out of business in order that politically well connected blacks can come in and take over all of the areas. We certainly see black economic empowerment all over the continent. This may be a different way of doing that.

I am NEVER going back to Tanzania. Too much bull shit. For all the hype about Tanzania, my best safaris have been elsewhere.

Thanks for the comparison table, Bwanamich.

A large part of the TZ governments possition is they have twice the hunting Zim has, yet have been reciving a third of the revinue.

I know, there are massive differences in operating costs, and the cost of keeping a camp running in some of those TZ concessions is increably heavy, but that is not what the government sees. They see that Zim parks made an actual income of US$ 7 million, and a paper income of US$600, 000 and want more. Have had several big TZ operators calling to find out the actual ammounts paid for concession fees etc

I live in the south. Cunningham is close to right but the people that are causing the problem are not blacks, they are dumb ass ________. You fill in the blank with what ever adjective you choose.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Guys,

The facts of the proposed increases in Tanzania are sobering enough so let's not start rumors. I spoke with Adam this AM. He has heard nothing of hunting being stopped in Tanzania for '08. It would seem that TAHOA will take the matter to court.

Mark

don't worry- they are not going to stop it- just make it so expensive that people go elsewhere. the folks who can afford an all up 21-28 day full bag safari will probably still go but the guy booking a 7-10 day buff hunt with 2-3 plains game( which judging from the way these hunts are pushed at the conventions is a large part of the bookings) will look elsewhere. at the end of the day, overall safari revenue to the government is going to drop

Look at Larry's reply. He's not going back and neither is his money. If you listen closely you will hear the sound of a toilet flushing...feel free to write off the little guys like me but that's big money no matter who you are.

Yukon,

A lot of little guys rounds up to a lot of income compared to a few big guys.

Hamdeni

quote:

Originally posted by yukon delta:
Look at Larry's reply. He's not going back and neither is his money. If you listen closely you will hear the sound of a toilet flushing...feel free to write off the little guys like me but that's big money no matter who you are.

How long had the old fees been in use?

SBT,
Elephant is $15,000

There are a few minor corrections to my above table:
Baboon is $110
Bushpig is $250

Ganyana:

quote:

They see that Zim parks made an actual income of US$ 7 million, and a paper income of US$600, 000 and want more.

Can you explain the above? Are you saying that actual Gov earning in Zim from all hunting was $7m? and if so, how is this determined? If you prefer to proceed with this offline please email me.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
How long had the old fees been in use?

2005 and 2006 season.

Don't kid yourselves. There will be enough wealthy people to fully book Tanz in the next few years.

Don't be surprised if the rulers in Zim look at this and follow suit.

As long as there are wealthy hunters willing to pay the fees they will increase.

quote:

Originally posted by Gator1:
Don't kid yourselves. There will be enough wealthy people to fully book Tanz in the next few years.

Don't be surprised if the rulers in Zim look at this and follow suit.

As long as there are wealthy hunters willing to pay the fees they will increase.

Gator,

I disagree. This is the mindset of the Tanzanian Minister. He believes that supply and demand does not apply to him. Or that their pricing is below the curve and an increase in fees will not effect demand.

If the fees stand as the Minister has proposed, there will be no hunting in Tanzania next year. This is only my opinion, but it is pretty easy to subscribe to this thinking.

The block fees alone would cause most operators to have to raise the day fees by $200-$250/day maybe more. Add to this increased trophy fees and you have a hunt that costs more than what most are willing to shell out.

Note, I did not say ABLE to shell out. There is a huge difference.

Here is an example ... a bit of a stretch, but not too far fetched.

Say that you had your heart set on the new Chevy Duramax Diesel Truck. They are priced at about $50K fully decked out in leather 4x4 etc. Dodge is already cheaper, Ford is about the same. But you want a Chevy.

If Chevy raised their price to $75,000 for this truck, you would probably change your mind and buy a Ford or Dodge. Even if you were ABLE to pay for it, you would not buy the Chevy.

You can mark my words ... if the fees proposed by the minister in July of 2007 remain, you can kiss the hunting in Tanzania goodbye.

I can not see any way that the industry would survive under this new fee structure. Sure, maybe Pasanisi and Hurt and TGT will keep on, but few others would be able to charge such incredible rates.

The Game Department can not survive on fees coming from 3 operators.

I rarely stick my neck out and make bold statements, but am willing to stand and say, "Mark my words, if this doesn't change, it will be the death of the hunting industry in Tanzania."

I know that Wendell gets NO pleasure in stating that...sobering times in the hunting community.

I can't comment on what the millionaire hunters will do with TZ or even how many of them are out there. I can say what I will do. I have already booked a 7 day Buffalo hunt in the Selous for next year and between my outfitter upping his daily rate and the new trophy fees, I'm getting jacked up an additional $3,000 or so. I can painfully absorb this and am going ahead since at this late date I don't want to start the research over. I certainly won't do TZ again though. My point being that we may not see the full impact of these fees next year, it may take a few years. We will see.

I do want to disagree with the all too common mindset that I have seen here and in other posts that says that in the end high paying hunters will just take up the slack and the hunts will be booked to capacity. African/Black politics not withstanding, there is no way to get beyond the law of supply and demand, even in Africa. If, as a group, the outfitters could have raised their prices in the past to these high rates and still get a few millionaire hunters to book all the hunts, they would have, plain and simple. The outfitter is not in the business to help the "little guy" or "first time" hunter and I'm sure would prefer a handful of 28 days safaris over many short hunts. No disrespect to any outfitters here, it just makes economic and logisical sense. The fact that many other hunters (including myself) have been able to book shorts hunts means that this hasn't happened, even at the old lower rates. Logically then, the "all hunts will be booked recgardless of price" argument doesn't seem to make logical sense to me. Then again, maybe I'm wrong since anything can happen on the Dark Continent. They still have Witchdoctors, right?

I agree with Wendell, the folks who CAN pay the new fees will not necessarily pay them.

The guys who pay big bucks for a safari are willing to pay it if they think the prices are fair. Many of these guys are self made and fully understand how a market economy works and should work. They are not going to take kindly to arbitrary government increases. They also won't buy what they perceive to be a ripoff.

I don't know if this will be the END of hunting in TZ but it sure could be.

I also think it will have the effect of driving prices up everywhere else that offers similar types of hunting. Mostly because there aren't that many places out there like TZ. The market will push up prices in a number of places like Zambia, Mozambique, and maybe even Zimbabwe. But we all know Zim has it's own problems.

I don't know if the courts will help because the only thing it seeems the courts could rule on is whether the increase was "noticed" sufficiently. In other words did the industry have the statutory 9 months notice of the increase. Other than that the increase is likely legal.

Market pressure is probably the only thing that has a chance of fixing this. Unless some minister in TZ suddenly figures out this is a bad idea. Good luck on that happening.

Todd

Wendell,
With the trophy cost of lion and elephant making most Tanzanian hunters scratch them off their trophy list on upcoming hunts, and considering that most 21-day hunts have a "dangerous game daily rate", does the idea of a 21-day hunt with it's higher charges need to be modified and replaced with a hunt that does not need the higher daily fee, even if it's still 21 days? How much should the daily rate be for a hunt that didn't include lion, leopard or elephant? Would buffalo keep the daily rate at the same level as one that included lion?

The 21 day license is so desirable because the third buff, the elephant, the leopard and the lion, along with many of the more desirable antelope and gazelles, can only be hunted on a 21 day safari.