I met a hunter in a camp who lost his Buff due to a frontal shot with his 416Rigby with a Euro tungsten tiped solid.
My PH strongly recommended against such a shot.
This was a very experienced Zambezi valley PH who felt this was not a good first shot for anyone to take and felt one should wait until the animal turned.
ozhunter

There has been alot of talk about useing solids on buff especially NorthFork cup points.At first I thought it was a great idea but I am not so sure they can equal the destructive power of an expanding monometal bullet.I read were people have shot buff many times with solids and got no quick kills.I think a bullet must EXPAND on game to work.I can understand why someone would want to use them on the skull of a big ele but I do not feel they are the bullet of choice on buff.I think that even on the shots through the chest mentioned here a TSX or equal monometal will have no problem in killing a buff within a short time.But,I have not tested solids on game or anything else to prove this.

Hey moron,

The North Fork cup point IS an expanding mono metal bullet.

Big solids work well when well placed. I think an expanding bullet is more beneficial when shooting smaller bore rifles like a 375H&H or a 416.

JPK

I think the North Fork CPS is the best of both worlds. IMO, it is one of only a few mono-metel bullets that is safe in all double rifles. I truley believe this bullet is perfect for Buffalo. I have some of these for my 470NE, and I think the next time I go for Buffalo, this is the bullet I will use exclusively. The bullet expands slightly, and retains all it's weight. It expands just enough to do a lot of tissue damage, but pennetrates deeply, and the bore size main body of the bullet, with it's grouve size pressure rings, seals fine, and makes the bullet very easy to engrave by the rifleing, so is safe in a double rifle, new or old, and long as the barrel sluggs to be of proper dimentions.

Gentlemen,

I see that we have some answers from experiences hunters, and others from those who are better off staying away from hunting.

You can shoot a buffalo from any angle, as long as you are using bullets that can penetrate to the chest cavity from that angle.

Shooting a buffalo that is facing you is no different from shooting it from broadside - you just have to make sure you hit a vital organ. If you slip and hit just one lung, he might take you on a very long trail.

But, you also have the chance of hitting the spine, especially if the buffalo has his head raised to look at you.

I have seen just as many people make shots that are far too low, as they do shot that are far too high. Not just on buffalo, but on other game animals too.

I have never seen a bullet that had skirted the rib cage on buffalo. Although I have seen solids fired into a fleeing elephant penetrate to the shoulder blade, then change directions and follow the bone forward, without penetrating it.

I used solids on buffalo on one hunt, in 1982.

Since then I have used Trophy Bonded Bear Claws on two hunts, and Barnes X and our own Walterhog bullets ever since.

I have found both of these have enough penetration in our 375/404 to get into the chest cavity of a buffalo from any angle.

Many PH don't want thier clients taking a frontal shot because they are not confident enough the client is capable of making the shot.

Saeed,
How do you feel about the 300 grain Barnes TSX, and Walterhog at the slower .375 H&H velocity?

We took 3 bulls last year and the one bull stood and waited an hour with a lung shot that penetrated both lungs took another 9 shots to go down.

out of 20 buffs shot on the the farm last year there was only 3 one shot kills al three with 375 and 2 of the hunters was woman. It just shows you how crucial that first shot is so make it count it will save you a lot of agony. in mozambique there is no fences a bad shot and you might pay for air

quote:

Originally posted by Dogleg:
Saeed,
How do you feel about the 300 grain Barnes TSX, and Walterhog at the slower .375 H&H velocity?

I have never used the TSX, and we have not used the Walterhogs at lower velocity.

But, I presume they both would work just as well at the 375 H&H velocities.

I killed a buff with a single frontal shot at @60 yards with a 286 Woodleigh Soft from my 9,3x74R Chapuis double. he was down and dead in 40 yards.

I shot one at 12 yards broadside, directly in the shoulder, bullet went right through the middle of the heart, thus hitting both lungs, lodged under the skin on the opposite side, perfectly expanded with a 480 Woodleigh Soft, from my 450 No2.

Buff ran 100 to 150 yards in the thick. Tried to get up when I approached, 2 solids knocked the buff down.

As Saeed says, put your bullet[s] through the heart lung area from any angle and hope for the best.

The problem with the frontal shot is only that a slight mistake to the left or right of centre can result in only one lung being damaged, and buffalo can go a very long time on one lung - I personally have shot one 12 days after it was originally wounded and one lung collapsed. The bull was thin and coughing, but still with the herd and the damaged lung was a softball sized black ball.

If you get a frontal shot dead centre it can be very effective, and Saeed is 100% that you can often spine him as well. When hit from the front and the heart taken out it is my experience that they go a very short way before going down, compared to a side chest shot.

Just a graphic insight on prickling of my buff:



- No1: (blue) 9,3 NF 300 gr. solid FP – hitting him in the left lower jaw – continuing to the neck – knocked buffalo on his front knees,
- No2 (PH): (green) 375 H&H Woodleigh solid 300gr.RN entering in the neck – back joint exiting high bellow the spine in the middle ribs - putting his hind end to the ground,
- No3: (pink) 9,3 Bridger 300 gr. FP – buffalo was back on his front legs – sitting like going through the shoulder joint above the heart - found in the spine – knocked him down again (he couldn't rise after that one),
- No4: (red) 9,3 Bridger 300 gr. FP - entering behind the eye passing through the head – bit quartering – found under the hide below the horn.

Quote from DEATH IN THE LONG GRASS,"Blow his heart into tatters,literally,and he'll have enough oxygen stored in his brain to go a hundred yards and still have the moxie to take you apart with his tent-peg horns and mix you up with enough topsoil to start a modest tomato farm."Now there is one experienced hunter I will listen to.

Saeed,

Thank you, I was hoping you might comment. That was very helpful!

It's interesting to me that the reason often given for a bullet "skirting around the rib cage" is high velocity. Kevin Robertson says this about the 375H&H in his book. He goes on to say that reducing the velocity helps. This is not consistent with your experience with the 375/404.

As always shot placement is all important.

Best regards;
Brett

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
Hey moron,

The North Fork cup point IS an expanding mono metal bullet.

Big solids work well when well placed. I think an expanding bullet is more beneficial when shooting smaller bore rifles like a 375H&H or a 416.

JPK

How can it expand if it is a cup point SOLID? Besides,if you don't hit them it doesn't matter what you shoot them with ,JPK.You and OZhunter need to dump that double and start with the novice mode.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
Hey moron,

The North Fork cup point IS an expanding mono metal bullet.

Big solids work well when well placed. I think an expanding bullet is more beneficial when shooting smaller bore rifles like a 375H&H or a 416.

JPK

How can it expand if it is a cup point SOLID?

Heavens.....an expert like you should know the answer to that.....you shouldn't have to ask anyone!

I agree with Vapodog. But if you are still as incredibly ignorant now as before my post, go take a look at North Fork's website or do a search here for their cup points.

A little light may burn off the haze.

BTW,

I do not always agree with Oz Hunter wrt guns, ammo and such, but I do respect his opinions because I know that he is an experienced African dangerous game hunter with several buff and elephant to his credit. Unlike you, moron.

JPK

No experience w. buff... and not all that sure that I want any, but I have had a bullet glance of the ribs of a whitetail before (a real WTH? moment). So I'm sure it could happen w. a buff. I also stopped using a 243 on TX hill country whitetail after that.

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
BTW,

I do not always agree with Oz Hunter wrt guns, ammo and such,
JPK

JPK, how insulting, I always agree with you on such matters..
ozhunter

Sorry not 100% about Africa.

Regarding the shooting of a cape buffalo from front on into the chest.

I have never used this shot placement on a cape buffalo, but have done so more than a handull of times on water buff. It seemed to work quite well on water buff.

For those who have done both, what were your results? Any difference?

quote:

Originally posted by JTHunt:
The problem with the frontal shot is only that a slight mistake to the left or right of centre can result in only one lung being damaged, and buffalo can go a very long time on one lung.

(If ) you get a frontal shot dead centre it can be very effective,

This sounds like good advice to me.

This hypothetical fear of shooting buff from the front comes up on a regular basis.

One guy one time heard about a super powerful buff that rejected some unknown bullet from an unknown cartridge and uncertain rifle and there is panic in the streets!

Not sure how hypothetical this situation is when some top PH's say it is a problem that occurs and advise against such a shot placment.
Some day I might be forced to use such a risky shot, but I certainly take note of what experienced guys have to say.
ozhunter