This Botwana leopard hunt is a Hell of a lot more dangerous than shooting a lion from a machan. Adam's client had the cat come over the hood and cab, clear the clients that had ducked and land on the the trackers in the back injurying one badly. If you make the fist shot count a lion from a machan is a slam dunk with basically no danger. You blow the shot and maybe you have a nasty situation. I've done the machan lion twice and found it a fantastic experience but I never felt in danger.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Leopardtrack:
JDollar,

Don't get me wrong, I consider a Bushman tracking a Leopard on foot to be the ultimate in fair-chase or pure hunting but come on... following him in the truck? Worse yet shooting from the truck? Sorry buddy, you lose me there.

I have seen a few of those video's and I will agree with you that it must be a rush, but not for me.

I am with you 100% if the hunter gets his fat ass out of the truck and actually tracks with the Bushman and faces the charge on his own 2 feet and not from the safety of the truck.

That would be the pinnacle of hunting.

Agree??

i would love to see you try to keep up with a Bushman trotting across the Kalahari for several miles, then when you arrived at a bayed up leopard, try and hold a gun steady enough to make a potentially life or death shot. just FYI, i shot mine after dismounting from the truck- as soon he saw me, the charge began and stopped less than 10 feet off the muzzle. on the hunt prior to mine, the bayed leopard charged, jumped into the back of the truck and badly mauled the dog handler. there is NO such thing as the "safety" of the truck! i met the poor guy the day he got out of hospital and he was a mess.

You are missing my point...I'm sure that I cannot keep up with a trotting Bushman and I sure as hell wouldn't care to shoot a Leopard out of the back of the truck, that's why this method of Leopard hunting dosen't appeal to me.

In my opinion you cheated yourself out of the opportunity of really hunting your Leopard...you just pulled the trigger.
The Bushman tracker is the real hunter in this type of hunt.

You don't feel relatively safe on the high seat in the back of the truck with a pack of dogs hot on the Leopards ass?

Does anyone here consider driving for miles in a noisy vehicle after a trotting Bushman HUNTING??

PS Yes, i'm sure that everyone who does this type of hunt gets "charged" as soon as he exits the vehicle. How come the Bushman dosen't get charged, just the hunter?

the bushman don't get charged because once the leopard is bayed, they stay well back from the action. it is whoever approaches the thornbush who gets the leopard's attention. i can assure you i wasn't cheated out of anything. you, sir are full of s==t giving opinions about a subject you know nothing about. the last time i checked if you hunted africa you spent hours and miles in the back of a truck looking for game or sign. are you stupid enough to think a leopard can't jump onto the high seat of a landcruiser? hell the real hunter of a baited hunt is the PH- THE CLIENT JUST PULLS THE TRIGGER-

Full of shit?? Shame that you have to resort to foul language and personal attacks when trying to state your case.

Anyway, sorry my friend, your Leopard hunt is not for me. In a baited hunt the interesting part, the real hunt in essence is getting the cat on bait. You learn so much about Leopards... their behavior, habits and ecology. If your hunt goes on for a while, you learn alot about how YOUR particular Leopard thinks and behaves...mine for example would only eat a very small portion of meat before moving off. This connection with your Leopard is what I think that you missed out on. Yes, your PH and trackers put you on to the cat and you do pull the trigger however, as a client, you are as involved in the hunt as you want to be...you can ask lot's of questions, help hang bait, and learn what your PH's strategy's are. You will see sign, and ask what it means...that was the fun part for me, and the rewarding part as well. You can also sit in the truck on a baited hunt and let everyone do everything for you if thats what you want.

By the way...through the years I have done alot of book research on Leopards, as well as assisting a biologist with a Leopard research project in the field, so I do know that a Leopard is able to jump into an open vehicle, however shooting one from it is not my idea of sporting.

In high seats and the backs of a landcruiser is not traditionally where Leopard are hunted. However if this your preferred method then surely you could be man enough to walk up the few final yards? And why not? Because it is extremely dangerous and some one is going to get hurt as has been illustrated in a number of these forums.

I totally agree with Leopardtrack - to hunt a Leopard on a one to one basis with a good PH sure beats the hell out of running one into the ground with a car bristling with shotguns and hounds. However as baiting is illegal in Botswana and diesel stalking is apparently not then really what other option does the PH have?

at the end of the day, the PH and trackers do all the work- the client shoots at a stationary( and oftimes temporarily blinded) target 75 yards away from a rock solid rest from inside a hidden enclosure. different strokes for different folks. i am not trying to make a "connection" with a leopard, i am trying to kill him. and i quit climbing trees 50 years ago so hanging a bait is out of the question. no matter how many questions you ask, it is STILL the PH who is the "real" hunter. i hunt for the excitement of the experience, not for a Zen moment that may and sometimes does occur.

quote:

Anyway, sorry my friend, your Leopard hunt is not for me.

Then don't go, but for Christ's sake, quit talking about something you know NOTHING about.

quote:

In a baited hunt the interesting part, the real hunt in essence is getting the cat on bait.

Really? how do YOU get the cat on bait? I would think that that is the cats decision. And one of the most common ways to hunt leopard with dogs is to hang baits as well so you can locate the tracks. So if that is the part you like, you may like hound hunting as well, the only difference is, YOU sit in a blind and wait for the cat to come back to the bait so you can shine a light in his eyes and blow a hole in him, I see that he has come to the bait, turn a pack of hounds loose, spend 4-5 hours running through the thornbush following them praying every step of the way that the cat is in front of me with the dogs between us until they chase him up into a 200' high Koppe, then spend the next 2 hours crawling through every crack and crevice of that rockpile with my asshole so tight a tractor couldn't pull a needle out of it just to find out that the cat ran up in the rocks to fool the hounds and is no longer there. Then you chase him for another 2 hours until he climbs a Mopane and he starts making sounds that you hear in your sleep for the next year. Then he sees you and forgets about the dogs he hates so much because he knows you are the REAL threat and you have a matter of seconds to put him down before you personally have to deal with a 180 pound chainsaw. People who have PERSONALLY hunted Mr. Spots with hounds know that it is the closest you will probably ever come to absolute violent chaos without actually getting sucked into the shredder, if your lucky.

quote:

If your hunt goes on for a while, you learn alot about how YOUR particular Leopard thinks and behaves...mine for example would only eat a very small portion of meat before moving off.

Now imagine backing that animal into a corner and you can see how he thinks and behaves, mine for example would have killed me, the ph and the houndsman (before he touched the dogs), If I had not had 300 grains of lead to feed him.

quote:

This connection with your Leopard is what I think that you missed out on.

Sounds to me like you are the one who missed out on something, oh, and I made a connection with my Leopard, at about 2400fps.

quote:

Yes, your PH and trackers put you on to the cat and you do pull the trigger however, as a client, you are as involved in the hunt as you want to be...you can ask lot's of questions, help hang bait, and learn what your PH's strategy's are. You will see sign, and ask what it means...that was the fun part for me, and the rewarding part as well.

I experienced all of these things on my hunt, for 6 days in fact. Plus, I got to experience the thrill of chasing the bastard down and dropping the hammer on him before he could do worse to me, no ambush here, partner

505, when i hunt my spots, thats EXACTLY how I hope it goes down. Sounds like one amazing hunt! The bait/blind hunt just has no fun factor for me..
Great post.

Leopardtrack,

I think you have been hung, drawn and quartered here. Seems that some want 'to experience the thrill of chasing the bastard down' and this is their choice. Personally I cannot see this practice lasting much longer as it is contentious for many.

There are African countries whose rules and regulations are dictated by 'fairchase' initially designed to enhance the sport and to not disadvantage the animal. Parts of these structures are common elsewhere and extended to other DG such as Lion, Buffalo and Elephant which are still and always were traditionally hunted on foot. Note we are talking safari hunting here.

I have read that there are those who question baiting and the monotony of sitting in a blind. To be honest it is not my favourite method of hunting either. However where I am it is not possible to track Leopard (much that I would like to) nor is it legal to hunt with dogs or artificial light. The baiting method still today attracts the vast majority of hunters whose quest is Leopard, and Scottyboy the safari is fun and as much fun as you want it to be. Besides what could be possibily better than the pursuit one of the worlds greatest predators in wild Africa?

If your answer is a BJ from a pretty French tart then admittedly you would be fairly close.

@leopardtrack
i agree with you. Following an animal in a car and shoot from the car is never a choice for me. If that's the way to hunt i wouldn't hunt.

I have no idea if i could follow the bushman but i would try.

I am also curious.

Is running a leopard into exhaustion and then setting the hounds on it considered sporting?

Just wondering.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
I am also curious.

Is running a leopard into exhaustion and then setting the hounds on it considered sporting?

Just wondering.

Will,

Seemingly in hunting nowadays it is each to his own and maybe the sporting aspect is little more than a personal preference?

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Will:
I am also curious.

Is running a leopard into exhaustion and then setting the hounds on it considered sporting?

Just wondering.

Will,
Could I come along when you run your leopard into exhaustion and then sic the hounds on him?

505,
I didn't realize how macho you are my friend, sorry about that. I won't beat this to death any longer...you and I are of a totally different mindset...you want to "put the bastard down" while I was choked-up when I saw my Leopard dead at my feet. I did and still do have a spiritual connection with my cat, and it was sacered to me...I'm not joking with you all here...my cat was that important to me.

To each his own.

I'll close by giving you something to think about. If you need the "rush" you should probably join the military or a big city police department like I did 20 years ago and see how you hold up in a real combat situation against an armed human being who is trying to shoot your ass, not an exhausted Leopard running from a pack of barking dogs and a couple of fat white guys.

New cops come on the job all gung-ho and ready to do battle with the bad guys, but trust me, when you are looking down at a human being that you just put down it is a horrible feeling, justified or not. Anyone who has done it and tells you otherwise is either a liar or a totall asshole.

Take Care,

Frank

Just a bit more?

Are all the leopards that are run down by hounds cattle-killers?

Or, at least piccaninny-killers?

Or, at the very least house-cat or house-dog killers?

I need something to work with here.

Frank-Once again,I can find nothing that you have said that I agree with. You hunt your cat the way you see fit and mourn his carcass (and those of all the bad guys you personally killed)AND I WILL HUNT MINE AS I SEE FIT AS WELL.

PS - I just returned from a mountain lion hunt where I killed a TOM after the dogs treed it for me.Followed those dogs for 18 days before they finally put up the cat.Walking up under that tree was as excited as I have been in a long time.Last summer hunted a leopard with hounds in Namibia also.Another great memory I will carry for a lifetime.

quote:

I'll close by giving you something to think about. If you need the "rush" you should probably join the military or a big city police department like I did 20 years ago and see how you hold up in a real combat situation against an armed human being who is trying to shoot your ass, not an exhausted Leopard running from a pack of barking dogs and a couple of fat white guys.

New cops come on the job all gung-ho and ready to do battle with the bad guys, but trust me, when you are looking down at a human being that you just put down it is a horrible feeling, justified or not. Anyone who has done it and tells you otherwise is either a liar or a totall asshole.

And I am the "macho" one?

Read my last paragraph again...you even put it in quotes.

If you think that I am being macho then you are an idiot.

ok, I read it again, now what?

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:



, and Scottyboy the safari is fun and as much fun as you want it to be. Besides what could be possibily better than the pursuit one of the worlds greatest predators in wild Africa?

If your answer is a BJ from a pretty French tart then admittedly you would be fairly close.

I've been in on a couple of bait/blind leopard hunts so I'm not just speaking from a wishful thinking aspect.. When I decide to make leopard my main target, I don't want to blind hunt him. I want to chase him with hounds.. My choice and my hunt that I'm paying for.


I'll just have my French Tart waiting for me back at the camp after the hunt ends, peferably with a cold strong drink in hand and minimum clothing on, thank you.