Looking for a leopard hunt with dogs.

Which countries allow dog hunting for leopard?

Who are the best outfitters?


Thanks,


dale

Zimbabwe

www.pro-saf.com
www.zambezihunters.com
Matapula hunters, Gary Hopkins, Roger Whittall etc and many more.

I think the best area in Zim are around west nic and The Save Conservancy or Hwange.

Even more important than the PH are the dogpack IMO.

See the other cat thread...

Like I said there, I personally would go with Barry Duckworth in the Save. The dog handler is very important.

I prefer Warrick Evans. That is who Barry uses.

I have hunted with Warrick twice. He is like another PH. I personally did not hunt with Barry, but other areas of Zim. Warrick would send you to Barry if you called him direct. There is also lots of buff and plainsgame also. there.

Warwick Evans is the guy to talk to. He and Mark Butcher essentially pioneered this in Zim, so I doubt there is anyone more experienced.

Shame about Namibia's closure though - there were a couple of good packs/handlers/PH's coming thru there.

Question:

The last place to hunt leopard in Africa with dogs is Zim?

Is this correct?

quote:

Originally posted by JTHunt:
Warwick Evans is the guy to talk to. He and Mark Butcher essentially pioneered this in Zim, so I doubt there is anyone more experienced.

Shame about Namibia's closure though - there were a couple of good packs/handlers/PH's coming thru there.

I went with Butcher. Good, but the Save is a better area from what Warwick says.

It is Warwick by the way. I have done that more than once.

quote:

Originally posted by daleW:
Question:

The last place to hunt leopard in Africa with dogs is Zim?

Is this correct?

Fortunately.

Fairgame,

What is the issue hunting leopard with dogs? Is this an ethical crime? It cannot be any more or less ethical than hunting over bait?

dale

quote:

Fairgame,

What is the issue hunting leopard with dogs? Is this an ethical crime? It cannot be any more or less ethical than hunting over bait?

dale

+1 !!!!!!!

it was legal a few years ago in Botswana when i went but i think they have since outlawed it. too bad. hands down it is the most exciting and dangerous way to hunt leopard. check the videos on the internet of leopard maulings and the common denominator is a charge during a dog hunt.

DaleW...It was opposed by the SPCA (our equivalent of HSUS) because it was cruel to the dogs.

Also the real issue is the quota setting system is very imperfect – and success rates in marginal areas is considerably higher with dogs than with bait and blind methods. Using Baits and blinds the system is, to a certain extent self limiting- when the leopard density falls below ???? (say 50% of carrying capacity) then success rate falls off to the point where commercial hunting becomes unviable.

On the other side of the coin, when the leopard population is too low to sustain commercial hunting, there are always bear traps, strychnine and hiring the local tribesman to use his dogs to get rid of problem animals – so much more efficient to let a visiting hunter take said leopard with the aid of a properly trained pack.

I was still in National Parks when Mark Butcher ran his show days for parks to get matters legalised in Zim. There was concern that an improperly trained pack could not be called off if it was found they had switched tracks in mid pursuit (does happen- and quite often, the big male track that you started following goes under a small female, and the hounds simply follow the freshest and you find yourself looking at a small female up a tree). Mark demonstrated that a properly trained pack could, indeed be called off, and as part of the process to establish hound hunting as a fully legal, normal, method of cat hunting in Zim legislation was drafted to inspect and license the packs. It was also agreed that, in order to limit the potential for over hunting, only leopard with a skull measurement of 13” and up would be eligible for export (male or female). Unfortunately, that was all ready when the first farms were invaded and parks began to unravel very quickly. They have been unable to implement any of the policy’s or decisions made since 1997 and unable to get legislation through parliament – in part because of a mindset change, that under the ‘new’ Zimbabwe, there is no private ownership of land or wildlife, and so all wildlife belongs to Parks, so they can do what they want anyway. This has obviously affected quota setting…

I am going with butcher once again in 20 days. Leopard with dogs plus ele plus hippo plus hiena

quote:

Originally posted by daleW:
Fairgame,

What is the issue hunting leopard with dogs? Is this an ethical crime? It cannot be any more or less ethical than hunting over bait?

dale

I think we have debated the question of ethics to the fullest. Go and enjoy it while you can becuase your next African experience maybe limited to Texas.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Fairgame,

What is the issue hunting leopard with dogs? Is this an ethical crime? It cannot be any more or less ethical than hunting over bait?

dale

+1 !!!!!!!

One of my PH's told me that at least one really old-time PH says that hunting leopards by any means other than tracking on foot is unethical.

Baiting has long been banned in Botswana- you must use a bushman tracker - same as I do for lion. Works better than a dog, never mistakes which tracks he is following, no false calls, and very very seldom a fail to find.

When my Father was a child, it would have been the mark of a cad and a bounder to have gone hunting lion, leopard or even Jackal WITHOUT dogs! Hanging baits was for the lower echelons of life- like 'Yank' Allen bought in to reduce the lion population of nuanetsi...gentlemen hunted with hounds don't you know

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
Baiting has long been banned in Botswana- you must use a bushman tracker - same as I do for lion. Works better than a dog, never mistakes which tracks he is following, no false calls, and very very seldom a fail to find.

I would give my left nut for a hunt like that. This is the best way to do it for sure!!

Booked with Mark Butcher in 2006. Hunted with Willie Mills and Warrick Evans and killed an amazing cat on the 12th day of one of the most difficult hunts I've ever been on. I chose a hound hunt because, among other reasons, I considered it one of the most ethical leopard hunts available to me. No need to discuss why I consider it so, but would encourage anyone considering such a hunt to go for it....you will not be disappointed!

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
Baiting has long been banned in Botswana- you must use a bushman tracker - same as I do for lion. Works better than a dog, never mistakes which tracks he is following, no false calls, and very very seldom a fail to find.

When my Father was a child, it would have been the mark of a cad and a bounder to have gone hunting lion, leopard or even Jackal WITHOUT dogs! Hanging baits was for the lower echelons of life- like 'Yank' Allen bought in to reduce the lion population of nuanetsi...gentlemen hunted with hounds don't you know

That sounds like a fantastic hunt, the way I'd like it done if I had the $$$$$...

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by daleW:
Fairgame,

What is the issue hunting leopard with dogs? Is this an ethical crime? It cannot be any more or less ethical than hunting over bait?

dale

I think we have debated the question of ethics to the fullest. Go and enjoy it while you can becuase your next African experience maybe limited to Texas.

that's 10 lbs of bullshit in a 5 lb bag. why insult someone just because you don't agree with their hunting method.

quote:

Originally posted by daleW:
Question:

The last place to hunt leopard in Africa with dogs is Zim?

Is this correct?

JTHunt

No. You may use dogs in Mozambique as well.

Like all of us in these tough economic and political times...fairgame is trying to preserve his livelihood in the best way he knows how...you can't blame him for that.

However...in my mind...he is a bit misguided. Stopping a style of hunting to appease a political hunger will do nothing to help...in fact it will just feed the beast.

When anti-hunters win a battle...It just fuels more fire. Gives them more stamina to fight and creates more havoc for all of US.

Whether one chooses to hunt leopards with dogs, over bait, or by tracking is a personal deecision to be thought out by each individual.

I persoanlly would rank them in sporting nature as 1) tracking, 2) with hounds, and 3) over bait. That is why I have argued with Andrew so vehemetly. But...fairgame is free to make up his own mind on ranking.

As hunters...we owe it to ourselves and our heritage to fight all battles to stop any kind of fair-chase hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by daleW:
Fairgame,

What is the issue hunting leopard with dogs? Is this an ethical crime? It cannot be any more or less ethical than hunting over bait?

dale

I think we have debated the question of ethics to the fullest. Go and enjoy it while you can becuase your next African experience maybe limited to Texas.

that's 10 lbs of bullshit in a 5 lb bag. why insult someone just because you don't agree with their hunting method.

jdollar, probably best to let sleeping dogs lie?

quote:

jdollar, probably best to let sleeping dogs lie?

Naw....besides nobody rose to my obviously too subtle hint that baiting was a lesser form of hunting cats introduced in the 1930's by an American -'Yank' Allen.

Where is Idaho SS when you need a good argument

quote:

Originally posted by Bahati:

quote:

Originally posted by daleW:
Question:

The last place to hunt leopard in Africa with dogs is Zim?

Is this correct?

JTHunt

No. You may use dogs in Mozambique as well.

Sorry Johan, that's good to know. You guys have got a lot going for you in Moza.

It is a wonderful hunt and experience, but it is up to operators to be sure of sustainable quotas.

You can use dogs to hunt Leopard in Zambia.

Best live and beat them a bit before you sit, as the leopard is more attracted to a wimpering cur than a silent one.

Wasn't this subject covered on another thread not so long ago?

The Bushman tracking hunt is still available in Botswana on private land. The Bushmen track the leopard and then let the dogs loose to bay the leoaprd once they catch up. All the while the client is following in the Land Cruiser. This hunt often provides a charge and is not for the faint of heart. You may very well have to shoot the leopard off the truck.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
The Bushman tracking hunt is still available in Botswana on private land. The Bushmen track the leopard and then let the dogs loose to bay the leoaprd once they catch up. All the while the client is following in the Land Cruiser. This hunt often provides a charge and is not for the faint of heart. You may very well have to shoot the leopard off the truck.

Mark

The bushmen chase the cat, then the dogs chase the cat. The shooter chases all three in the friggin' truck. Then maybe the cat chases the truck? Now I've heard it all.

quote:

Baiting has long been banned in Botswana- you must use a bushman tracker - same as I do for lion. Works better than a dog, never mistakes which tracks he is following, no false calls, and very very seldom a fail to find.

Now that sounds like a ton of fun!

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
The Bushman tracking hunt is still available in Botswana on private land. The Bushmen track the leopard and then let the dogs loose to bay the leoaprd once they catch up. All the while the client is following in the Land Cruiser. This hunt often provides a charge and is not for the faint of heart. You may very well have to shoot the leopard off the truck.

Mark

Why is the hunter not following the dogs on foot?

Caracal,

The Bushman are actually tracking the leopard in the sandy ground at a pace that most other humans could not sustain and often at a trot thus the vehicle for the client. The trackers will pursue the leoaprd until it is actually sighted and then the dogs who are sight hounds will be released to try and bay the leopard. In the ensuing malay the leopard will often come for the Cruiser at very short range. You don't want to be on the ground and out of breath when Mr. Spots targets you.

People that have done this hunt find it to be the only way they ever want to hunt leopard. it also can produce a huge leoaprd as these cats are cattle killers and never lack for a big meal.

Mark

Sounds very sporting...

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Caracal,

The Bushman are actually tracking the leopard in the sandy ground at a pace that most other humans could not sustain and often at a trot thus the vehicle for the client. The trackers will pursue the leoaprd until it is actually sighted and then the dogs who are sight hounds will be released to try and bay the leopard. In the ensuing malay the leopard will often come for the Cruiser at very short range. You don't want to be on the ground and out of breath when Mr. Spots targets you.

People that have done this hunt find it to be the only way they ever want to hunt leopard. it also can produce a huge leoaprd as these cats are cattle killers and never lack for a big meal.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
The Bushman tracking hunt is still available in Botswana on private land. The Bushmen track the leopard and then let the dogs loose to bay the leoaprd once they catch up. All the while the client is following in the Land Cruiser. This hunt often provides a charge and is not for the faint of heart. You may very well have to shoot the leopard off the truck.

Mark

this is exactly how i hunted mine in Botswana. i was warned to expect a charge when we got to the dogs and that is what happened- no sitting in a blind, hoping he shows, then blinding him with a spotlight before taking a super fast and hopefully accurate shot. both ways are legal, ethical and hopefully get the job done but the adrenal rush from a close range charge on an unwounded leopard is beyond belief.

if you think you are in pretty good shape, try keeping up with a Bushman when he is following an animal across the Kalahari.

Who offers hunting with dogs? Somewhere that it will be stable enough to book for 2012 or so and still have it be legal...

Ryan,

I work with a guy who has excellent hounds, a high success rate, and is very reputable. Drop me a line for info, pics, and references.

Email sent, thanks.

JDollar,

Don't get me wrong, I consider a Bushman tracking a Leopard on foot to be the ultimate in fair-chase or pure hunting but come on... following him in the truck? Worse yet shooting from the truck? Sorry buddy, you lose me there.

I have seen a few of those video's and I will agree with you that it must be a rush, but not for me.

I am with you 100% if the hunter gets his fat ass out of the truck and actually tracks with the Bushman and faces the charge on his own 2 feet and not from the safety of the truck.

That would be the pinnacle of hunting.

Agree??

I saw a pretty exciting leopard hunt with bushman trackers where the leopard charged the hunter standing in the open back of a land cruiser. I think it was from Safaris Botswana Bound. I'm curious if anyone thinks this is less dangerous than shooting a baited lion from a machon?