Greetings all,

I am planning my first Safari to Zim in '07. I realize anything could change before then, but I am curious about the possibility of flying Northwest/KLM from the US to Amsterdam to Niarobi to Harare. Any comments will be appreciated.

CWW,

I'm also planning my Zim trip for August. Did you get any prices yet?
I checked with SAA, hell!, just to get from Jo'Burg to vic falls= $768.00!!!!!!!!!
the flight from JFK in new York to Vic falls , (round trip) is $2,400.00!!!

You will need a seperate flight to harare. Thats not a NW service route. Most KLM flights have about a 24 hour layoverin Amsterdam or at least the onse I have been looking at do. I just wish they went to Windhoek

went once from mpls to frankfurt on Northwest, then frankfurt to joberg on saa that was a perfect. another on northwest to amsterdam then klm to jo berg. Not so good on klm, got to joberg and guncase was smashed hard enuf to bend the scope tube, and on the way back klm canceled all the seat assignments because they missed the landing in harare, then got to amsterdam in time to see the northwest flight take off. I'm sure hoping the atlanta/joberg flight on saa is better than what I'm hearing about, cause i'm leaving on march 10th. to bulawayo is about 2000 (off season) thru gracey travel

quote:

Originally posted by Widowmaker416:
CWW,

I'm also planning my Zim trip for August. Did you get any prices yet?
I checked with SAA, hell!, just to get from Jo'Burg to vic falls= $768.00!!!!!!!!!
the flight from JFK in new York to Vic falls , (round trip) is $2,400.00!!!

I thought they had "add on" fares for much less than that. Look on Gracy Travel Website

High season to JNB (from Atlanta or New York) is $1,690 and just $200 more to Vic Falls (round trip).

Regards,

Terry

I just today booked my 5 tickets to Africa. We will be going Houston-Amsterdam-Jburg. All on KLM. Susan At Gracy Travel was very helpful and professional. This is my 5th trip over and each without a hitch in the travel area.

The planning is 1/2 the fun.

Terry,

I just spoke with Shawn at Gracey Travel, she is a sweetheart and was a big help, the price is up there but it was the best one I found. She is very well informed on the in's & out's of travel with "hunting in mind!"

Gracey travel now has a new client! I am impressed!

If anybody out there needs tickets see Gracey Travel!

thanks Terry!!

I suggest you look at the gun laws for Amsterdam. I considered doing this last year and was told that you had to get gun permits to bring guns through Holland. The process was going to take some time and I wanted to travel last minute so I went with SAA. I called the US embassy and got the proper paperwork. I am curious if anyone has made this trip from the US with guns and experienced any difficulty. Sometimes you can get great fares on this route. Last year the quote was less than $800.

Netherlands Embassy - Travel with Firearms

Here is an account of a recent experience that one of our members had in Amsterdam.

"This is something that has recently transpired and will affect those hunters traveling via Amsterdam who decide to spend one or more nights there. This happened to a friend of mine coming back from the US shows:

Charlie (fake name) and I stopped off in Holland for a week on our way back from the US and had ammunition with us which had been cleared by NW/KLM before we left the US. As he had done in the past when traveling to England via Holland with a rifle, Charlie went to the customs in the baggage hall to inform them he had ammunition in his bag and wanted to deposit this with them until our return to Kilimanjaro. They said, no problem, but that the police had to handle this and went off to get a policeman. He duly arrived and picked up the ammo and asked Charlie to go with him. Charlie, having been through this procedure before, thought nothing of it and followed the policeman out of the baggage hall and across the airport plaza to the police station. There we waited 3 hours for him not knowing what was going on behind the locked doors and finally Charlie appeared and announced that he had been arrested for bringing ammunition into Holland without a permit! He was told to wait for the public proscecutor to arrive and finally after 6 hours in the police station he was allowed to go, without ammo, and with a court case set for a date in April at which a lawyer may represent him. Everyone was very polite and there was no unpleasantness but they did insist that Charlie had broken the law and would have to pay a fine.

Our office in Holland contacted customs at Schiphol Airport and were informed that a Consent of Transit (Transit Permit) is required for passengers traveling with guns/ammunition and breaking their journey in Amsterdam. This permit/consent has to be applied for in advance through the airline and passengers should go with this to the red desk in the baggage hall and declare the weapons."


So, not clear to me if you are just connecting in Amsterdam if you need a Transit Permit. But the Embassy website sounds like you do.

From Northwest Airlines (KLM partner), not much help though.

"International shipment of arms/ammunition:

Passengers must obtain and comply with regulations governing the transportation of firearms for all countries on the itinerary. Passengers should check with Northwest or KLM for current policies, requirements and restrictions on firearms and related items in checked luggage when traveling in the United States or internationally."

Regards,

Terry

I priced two buisiness class seats from Atlanta to Windhoek today. $15,000 British Airways $18,000

Chuckwagon,
You mentioned something about a 24 hour layover in Amsterdam. That's not what I found when booking my flight this year. I'll be there for two hours.

Don't overnight in Amsterdam is the best plan..All my Tanzania clients fly NW/Klm to Tanzania via Amsterdam with 0 problems for the last 15 or so years...I go that route every year...Usually about a two to four hour layover going or coming, and they have showers, and that helps kill some time and they are usuall well needed....

I noticed several flights with a two-four hour layover. The flights from Detroit seem to be longer although still less than 24 hours. Would this matter at all if your bags are checked through to Yoburg etc ? I am now leaning towards Namibia so for me my KLM/NW flight will end in Yoburg. I need to go on SAA from yo'burg to Windhoek. Will this be a big problem with a gun ?

My hunting partner & I were through Amsterdam in 2002 - just transit on our way to Kazakstan. Yes we did have to have the "gun permit" just to transit & KLM had to have 24 hour notice/confirmation of our fire arms "transitting" to notify Schipol Airport. The 24 hour confirmation caused a 1 day delay in coming home.
The permits & notification were handled for us as part of the service when we booked the travel with Stacy Gibson/Falcon Travel. I would make the assumption that most any hunting travel agency you use would handle this for you also as part of the service.
Mike

I have gone through AMsterdam several times with no problems. The best plan is to notify KLM that you have ammo ahead of time and they will give you a special handling order that will go with you on your travel itinerary. Check with GotoGirl on this forum and she can give you info on getting a gun/ammo permit from the Dutch police. I think you can call Schipol Airport and they will give the number of the police at the airport. I believe the policeman you need to talk to is named Oosterly. Schipol is a great airport and you can pick up many specialty items for your safari.

Chuckwagon- You should be able to go direct to Frankfurt, then straight on to Windhoek, bypassing RSA.

Not on NW or KLM, they don't service Namibia. I do know you can go from Frankurter to Windhoek on Namibia air but that would be counter productive for air mile use. As far as I can tell only two Airlines can take us from the USA to Namibia. British Airways and SAA. No way am I flying coach that distance.

Went through Amsterdam on KLM last year to Cape Town. No problems at all. Got my permits for guns/ammo easily (no one ever asked about them). Stayed overnight on the return and KLM has a "secure" area where they stored my rifles. KLM's business class is outstanding! I just have to keep earning my frequent flyer miles so I can fly b-class again next year.

Chuckwagon- I have not done this, but you may be able to trade miles(and give up a few points) using one of the websites that specialize in buying and selling miles.The question is- does Air Namibia particapate or are they code share partners with a participant?

Crane that is really a very good idea but for it wouldn't work as the exchange rates from one carrier to the next are very high ( in air miles ). I did recently exchange a bunch of unwanted AA miles to my Starbucks re-load card. It was very cool and only costed ten bucks.

Can any one tell me what the Amsterdam paperwork consists of ?

Thanks for all of the informative replies. I, like some of you, am trying to use Northwest due to a large point balance. And, as was pointed out above, the final leg from Niarobi to Harare, would actually be on another airline, Kenya Air, I believe. Thanks again.

Chuckwagon,

Just call the Netherlands Embassy in D.C. (assuming you are in the US). They can give you the number to call or the weblinks.

I always book with Gracy Travel and it always clearly states on the tickets that I am in transit with firearms and that KLM/Amsterdam has been notified...Never a problem going or coming every year...

ChuckWagon: I just booked a flight for July from Detroit through Atlanta to Jo-burg into Windhoek for $2,175 plus fuel surcharges ($30 or so. Custom Travel out of Milwaukee might be another place to check into, in addition to the fine people at Gracey. 800-728-5301 Hope this helps

Thats is a great price but there is noooo way this short fat bald man is setting his pampered arse in coach for all those hours ! LOL, I'm either buying BC or using FF miles or a combination of both.

LOL, I don't blame you. My dad's a truckdriver, so he sleeps in an upright seat all the time. He also falls asleep the minute someone else is driving, so I'll wake him when we land. Being the first time on a flight this long, I'll be thinking I wish I'd paid the extra, but at this point I think I'd fly over in the overhead compartment (if the door would shut, just to get there). My dad never in his wildest imagination thought he'd end up in Africa. I've got to be careful, I'm horrible about teasing him and he doesn't know what all the animals are. My wife was teasing him the other day, asking him if he was going to hunt jackudo (while pointing at a jack-alope on the wall at Texas Roadhouse). We're going to pay for harrassing the "old dude" when our child get's older...lol.

I have this weird mental thing about flying. Do I love to fly but I can not sleep on a plane. T For me its BC even if I have to wait another season. One thing I did see is that for 120,000 miles per couple plus two full coach fares (about 6k) you can get a BC ticket. I think you can buy extra miles as well. For us the best deal is two BC tickets for 240,000 miles as long as I can find flights that match. No way can I save enough miles (400,00) for two rule buster seats. The combo full coach and mileage upgrade may be the way to go.

We flew through Amsterdam to Joburg in May 2004. We did not overnight. No paperwork was required. BUT, you must notify KLM prior to the flight that you have guns/ammo. They make a note on the ticket.

I've handled the NW/KLM thing several times and it is like this. If you have some sort of mishap and miss a connecting flight in Amsterdam, they will automatically hold your luggage until the next available flight without any permit, etc. Obviously you want to double-check this at the counter like you would anything else. But, if you're planning on a few days it would be an easy $35-$50(US) to obtain an license and some people choose to go ahead and get the license just in case something comes up. The police officials have always been very helpful and accommodating. If you want further details, just PM me.

Shannon

The travel alert posted by T Carr: "Travel with Weapons to/Through the Netherlands" is dated Oct 12, 2004. Any travel experiance prior to Oct 12, 2004 is not current information. CHEERS

quote:

Originally posted by Spring:
Chuckwagon,
You mentioned something about a 24 hour layover in Amsterdam. That's not what I found when booking my flight this year. I'll be there for two hours.

I flew that route a few years ago and had no problems. I flew to Dar and the layover was quite short.

That is the way they handled things the last time I needed to, which actually was mid-October 2004.