Are you guys jealous he has a 600 nitro express?or is it that he is a PH,and you always wanted to be one? or he sells a lot of his DVDS? People who have hunted with him,like him,people who have not just hate him,you should read the book not just take a look at the cover and think you know everything. Give him a break, what the hypocrits at SCI are doing is bad enough.

quote:

Are you guys jealous he has a 600 nitro express?or is it that he is a PH,and you always wanted to be one? or he sells a lot of his DVDS?

Yep, all of the above.

yep, that must be it. i,too, love to let them choose how they want to die after i have gut shot them

Who is Mark Sullivan?

I have followed the MS discussions on this forum for what seems like decades.

I have never heard anyone who has hunted with him say a bad word (in fact I only hear positives) and I would lay London to a brick that those who can him are relying on hearsay born of jealousy.

As I have said before on this forum, I would hunt with him in a heartbeat and could not think of anyone I would rather have covering my sorry arse if the shit hits the fan.

I think he has more balls than the collective genetalia of many of those who piss on him from afar.

If I were Mark,I would not even bother entering into discussion with the armchair experts that so often frequent this forum.

In case you havn't guessed, that's my opinion.

I've always wanted to be able to grow a Magnum mustache so I do envy the man that. But, as for the rest of what he's got going on? Not so much.

On a related topic, I do sincerely hope that he gets what's coming to him. If SCI have treated him badly they should be flayed for it and if he has been a yobbo in the bush he deserves to be ostracised.

Just because Sullivan has been childishly naiive in not realising that the consequences of deliberately cultivating a high profile would be negative as well as positive does not mean he's a bad guy.

Keep working on that moustache, you may get there.

++++++ exactly right great thread!!!!!!!!!!!I have thought the same thing many times. maybe Saeed can make this a NO cry baby zone NO whining cry baby's of just plane jealous fools allowed,NO rumor mongering,wow I better stop there or this would be a cyber desert

quote:

Everyone on here must be jealous of Mark Sullivan

hmmm everyone

wow such a serious post from such a serious person

quote:

Originally posted by white north:
Everyone on here must be jealous of Mark Sullivan.

While there might be some jealousy from the professional side - I think most of the hate comes from how he presents himself.

His persona just rubs people the wrong way, so they look for reasons to knock him. He does bring some of this on himself. He comes off as arrogant, and people love to take guys like that down a few pegs.

And whether intentional or not when he says "I let it decide...etc,etc...." he's implying he's doing it the right way and you're not. And hunters who have been having fun doing it thier way HATE that. Nobody likes being told that they're "doing it wrong".

At least 50% of his detractors would never exist if he had presented his material the same way every other PH with a hunting DVD does.

And when it comes to the rumors of wrong-doing... You just have to look to the various hunting reports and forums and see how bad PH's & outfitters get raked over the coals for various transgressions.

MS has been around long enough, and hunted with enough clients that if he was even guilty of half of what is rumored; he would have been well and truly outed with names and dates, long before now.

.

Jealous? Of mark sullivan? You need to move this to the Humor Forum.

Tell me which ms is the real one? The clown in the videos or the Mother Teresa in drag who presents to you in person?

I am slightly envious of two people in the African Milieu.

Craig Boddington
Ivan Carter

There are many more I admire for the way they conduct themselves.

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I am slightly envious of two people in the African Milieu.

Ivan Carter

With all due respect Rich. Ivan Carter is the Mark Sullivan of elephants. He may not push the choose how they want to die, but in action I and MANY others see NO difference! That's not a shot at Ivan. It's an expression of truth and I dont' understand why so many people think Ivan is wonderful and in the same breath Mark is horrible.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
after i have gut shot them

You really think that's what Mark actually does??? Really? If so you base your unfailing certainty in this "FACT" on?????????

Brett

quote:

You really think that's what Mark actually does??? Really? If so you base your unfailing certainty in this "FACT" on?????????

About 25 hours of video evidence.

Surestrike,your quote,"25 hours of video evidence",is not true at all,comments like that make the naieve people believe that BS about Mark Sullivan,i have all of his videos,i should know plus many others,its just not right.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

You really think that's what Mark actually does??? Really? If so you base your unfailing certainty in this "FACT" on?????????

About 25 hours of video evidence.

"25 hours of video evidence", what a load of crap!

You should add some tabasco to that bullshit sandwich you are eating.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

You really think that's what Mark actually does??? Really? If so you base your unfailing certainty in this "FACT" on?????????

About 25 hours of video evidence.

I've seen them all. To my memmory not one hippo was wounded before charging. NOT ONE! Most if not all of the charging buffalo on his video where wounded by poor shooting from a client. They were then followed up and charged after being wounded by poor shooting. In hunting wounded animals, following up wounded animals, and backup shots occur. What's different when Mark does it??? Are you suggesting he purposely has them wounded? If so that is absolute garbage! Please point out to me which charge was set up by intentionally wounding an animal and the proof you have of that "fact" and I'll gladdly go back and watch the video!

Brett

I'm with Brett. I haven't looked at them in a long time but I don't recall any intentionally gut shot animals on video. Were there wounded animals? Yes. Have any of you ever wounded an animal that had to be followed? It does happen, even to the best of us.

What we see in ms videos: somebody ALWAYS does a piss poor job of shooting Buff. They charge, and ms shoots/kills them.
He must screen clients to make sure none of them can shoot.

We can say one thing with certainty: if you hunt with ms somehow your DG gets wounded and he will do his level best to induce a charge so he can kill your game.

Brett,
why don't you book a hunt with him and let us know what a fortnight or more in the bush hunting DG with him is like? As far as the hippos not appearing to be wounded, we never see any video until the wounded animal charges and bwana marky kills it.

Rich
DRSS

Brett,
Watch the tone change once Mark starts to post.

In my opinion Ivan is Guilty of what Mark is being accused of, Ivan, by his own addmission killed three charging elephant (unwanted) in the making of his video. Mark video's planned intentional kills. The two events are in my opinion polar from one another.

Anybody that doesn't understand that buffalo don't always die in an instant and require addtional shots, many at times, is doing nothing more than showing their inexperience in real buffalo hunting.

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
What we see in ms videos: somebody ALWAYS does a piss poor job of shooting Buff. They charge, and ms shoots/kills them.
He must screen clients to make sure none of them can shoot.

We can say one thing with certainty: if you hunt with ms somehow your DG gets wounded and he will do his level best to induce a charge so he can kill your game.

Brett,
why don't you book a hunt with him and let us know what a fortnight or more in the bush hunting DG with him is like? As far as the hippos not appearing to be wounded, we never see any video until the wounded animal charges and bwana marky kills it.

Rich
DRSS

Rich.......WRONG agian. I think it is Death Rush, the opening hippo charge, he gets the thing to charge on dry ground in the daylight. The sequence is at least 10 minutes. Are you suggesting he gut shoots the hippos as well? watch it get the facts, as cumbersome as it may be, then post up.

Steve

Guys,

I don't care for Mark Sullivan's method of following up the buffalo after it has been wounded but that is my opinion. There will be no need in a full season in Tanzania to intentionally wound a buffalo. There will be enough wounded buffalo to give plenty of video footage of Mark letting the buffalo decide "How he wants to die."

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

... I dont' understand why so many people think Ivan is wonderful and in the same breath Mark is horrible...

Brett

Because he is personally well liked. Carter comes across completely different than MS.

In Buzz Charlton's Zambezi Extreme DVD, in the section on extreme hunting - Mr Charlton basically flat out says that in some cases they "push an animal in order to provoke a confrontation."

I think this is a fairly popular and widely watched DVD by AR regulars. So why has no one called Mr. Charlton out for trial by internet for this type of hunting??

It's simply all in the presentation. Just the hunting footage, with none of the signature statements that so many hate in the Sullivan DVD's - And there you go, no AR rancor.

.

It is necessary to "push" some animals in order to keep them from leaving the zip code. You follow them until they have had enough and decide to confront you.
Funny, ms is the only PH I have heard more than one person have issues with over his hunting techniques.

I have heard nothing from anyone but praise for Ivan Carter's approach to DG.

Am I the only one that sees differences between the DVDs showcasting the two?

The man still has not made his appearance here.

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by TwoZero:
Because he is personally well liked. Carter comes across completely different than MS.........So why has no one called Mr. Charlton out for trial by internet for this type of hunting??

Mark's words are abrasive to some. In word Mark and Ivan are VERY different. In deed (much more important to me than word) they are the same! I didn't post it, but I absolutely agree with Steve's last point. Ivan provokes and has to kill animals that are not on license and for which no quota exists due to his style. Mark on the other hand ONLY has to kill mature male animals for which there is quota and the client posesses a license to take. If you can't see the difference between the two then I can't help you!

As to Buzz. I haven't seen the DVD, so I didn't mention him. From what I gather his style and Ivan's are one in the same, so yes I don't understand why he is so reviered for being the MS of elephants as well.

I think Ivan has the Boddington seal of approval above which there is no reproach! Buzz has a DVD and lot's of happy clients I guess. And Mark has the industry trend of it being in fashion to bash him regardless of how many successful and happy client he produces! Again please don't take my comments as condemnation of Mark, Buzz, or Ivan. They are only meant to point out a gaping difference in how the same behavior by different people can be perceived night and day differently!

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I have heard nothing from anyone but praise for Ivan Carter's approach to DG.

You either haven't been listening too well or asking oppinions from the right people. I posted on another MS debate the fact that I thought Ivan and Mark are one in the same. Several other people agreed openly on the thread and a number of others including some industry people PMed me saying there is NO difference between the two. The reason why not so many people are willing to say that in public is Ivan's popularity one and the Craig Boddington seal of approval two.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
What we see in ms videos: somebody ALWAYS does a piss poor job of shooting Buff. They charge, and ms shoots/kills them.
He must screen clients to make sure none of them can shoot.

We can say one thing with certainty: if you hunt with ms somehow your DG gets wounded and he will do his level best to induce a charge so he can kill your game.

Brett,
why don't you book a hunt with him and let us know what a fortnight or more in the bush hunting DG with him is like? As far as the hippos not appearing to be wounded, we never see any video until the wounded animal charges and bwana marky kills it.

Rich
DRSS

Rich,

The only thing that's apparhent from your post is that you've never watched one of Mark's videos. Maybe a scene or two, but not a whole video and certainly not all his videos. I've watched ALL of them and I've read BOTH his books. Many of the scenes in Mark's videos show his clients taking wonderful animals without much adue, any wounded animals, or charges. No different than a hunt with any other PH! Many of the followed up wounded animals are dispensed by the client without a charge. Some of the animals charge. Some of the charges are handled well by the client alone. Many of the charges Mark showcases his amazing double rifle skills. That said these charges make up a much smaller percentage of his overall hunt footage than most people would think. He does frequently put anchor shots into clients animals as they go away, but I'd hardly call that shooting it for them. If anything he is trying to stop a wounded animal from getting away or a charge situation from developing by doing that.

"We can say one thing with certainty: if you hunt with ms somehow your DG gets wounded and he will do his level best to induce a charge so he can kill your game."

I'm not sure how anyone could say that "for certain", but I'm can take a good guess how someone could say that "in ignorance". As Mark Young said. "There will be no need in a full season in Tanzania to intentionally wound a buffalo. There will be enough wounded buffalo to give plenty of video footage of Mark"

"As far as the hippos not appearing to be wounded, we never see any video until the wounded animal charges and bwana marky kills it."

I'm scratching my head! Hippos are about the most piss poor tempered animals on the face of the earth. He intentionally takes clients up to loan bull hippos suquestered in small pools of water away from large bodies of water to hide in. He then walks up so close that the animal is visibly uncomfortable. You really think it takes more than that to get a charge or two every year if you do that enough times? Really? I'm pretty sure anyone could have his success at inducing hippo charges if they did the same thing. In one of Brittinghams videos John Greef and his client have a very close hippo charge while in the same senerio in the Selous. They sure weren't looking for a charge, but they got it!

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Guys,

I don't care for Mark Sullivan's method of following up the buffalo after it has been wounded but that is my opinion. There will be no need in a full season in Tanzania to intentionally wound a buffalo. There will be enough wounded buffalo to give plenty of video footage of Mark letting the buffalo decide "How he wants to die."

Mark

Mark hits the nail on the head with his post.

It's silly for anyone to imply that Sullivan deliberately wounds animals; the fact is that the vast majority of buffalo require more than one shot to die. It is in the follow-up that distinguishes Sullivan from his contemporaries: Rather than fire repeatedly at a wounded buffalo the moment it is spotted following the first shot(s), Sullivan approaches the wounded animal clearly within its field of vision – thus violating its 'space' and occasionally prompting a charge.

If I understand him correctly, it is this technique to hunting buffalo that Mark objects to, but in so doing he does not imply that Sullivan is deliberately wounding game or acting in some other illicit fashion. Rich and Surestrike would do well to set aside their conspiracy theories and recognize the validity of Mark's observation.

quote:

Originally posted by KPete:
It is in the follow-up that distinguishes Sullivan from his contemporaries: Rather than fire repeatedly at a wounded buffalo the moment it is spotted following the first shot(s), Sullivan approaches the wounded animal clearly within its field of vision – thus violating its 'space' and occasionally prompting a charge.

That's correct.....sometimes. Sometimes the client does shoot it at the first available opportunity........even in his videos!

Brett

No offence Mark S. but I am ready for a new topic.

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

quote:

Originally posted by KPete:
It is in the follow-up that distinguishes Sullivan from his contemporaries: Rather than fire repeatedly at a wounded buffalo the moment it is spotted following the first shot(s), Sullivan approaches the wounded animal clearly within its field of vision – thus violating its 'space' and occasionally prompting a charge.

That's correct.....sometimes. Sometimes the client does shoot it at the first available opportunity........even in his videos!

Brett

Of course, you're right, Brett. It's easy - especially on the topic of Mark Sullivan - to give in to exaggeration or generalization.

Anyone who has watched his videos knows that at least half of his clients make fairly good shots and eventually kill their own trophy without the help of Sullivan. And when you consider that in the the editing process he is going to select only those hunts that make for good video, the likelihood is that the vast majority of Sullivan's hunts are what most of us would consider 'routine'. It is the handful of hunts that result in both a charge and Sullivan's subsequent dispatch of the beast with one of his hefty doubles that generates all the excitement – and anger.

quote:

You really think that's what Mark actually does??? Really? If so you base your unfailing certainty in this "FACT" on?????????

quote:

25 hours of video evidence", what a load of crap!

You should add some tabasco to that bullshit sandwich you are eating.

quote:

I've seen them all. To my memmory not one hippo was wounded before charging. NOT ONE! Most if not all of the charging buffalo on his video where wounded by poor shooting from a client. They were then followed up and charged after being wounded by poor shooting. In hunting wounded animals, following up wounded animals, and backup shots occur. What's different when Mark does it??? Are you suggesting he purposely has them wounded? If so that is absolute garbage! Please point out to me which charge was set up by intentionally wounding an animal and the proof you have of that "fact" and I'll gladdly go back and watch the video!

Brett

Holy crap you guys are a touchy, defensive, little bunch..

All I said is that is where "everybody" are getting their "facts", from watching the videos..

And while we are on the subject of the videos I've watched them all too. And in every single one of his buff charges he set up the charge by circling the wounded buff until it had a visual on him and his well placed cameras and then pushing it into a charge by closing on it.

The hippo charges are all similarly orchestrated by getting between a hippo and where it wants to go or harassing it in a small pool. As entertaining as those videos are to watch and as exciting as that style of hunting hippos would be, none are unprovoked charges.

What Surestrike said!


Anyone hunting with ms has to be fast and deadly with that first shot. Wonder if those wounded animals occur when the client, knowing ms is nano-seconds away from the shot, wounds the animal trying to beat him to the first shot?

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

You really think that's what Mark actually does??? Really? If so you base your unfailing certainty in this "FACT" on?????????

quote:

25 hours of video evidence", what a load of crap!

You should add some tabasco to that bullshit sandwich you are eating.

quote:

I've seen them all. To my memmory not one hippo was wounded before charging. NOT ONE! Most if not all of the charging buffalo on his video where wounded by poor shooting from a client. They were then followed up and charged after being wounded by poor shooting. In hunting wounded animals, following up wounded animals, and backup shots occur. What's different when Mark does it??? Are you suggesting he purposely has them wounded? If so that is absolute garbage! Please point out to me which charge was set up by intentionally wounding an animal and the proof you have of that "fact" and I'll gladdly go back and watch the video!

Brett

Holy crap you guys are a touchy, defensive, little bunch..

All I said is that is where "everybody" are getting their "facts", from watching the videos..

And while we are on the subject of the videos I've watched them all too. And in every single one of his buff charges he set up the charge by circling the wounded buff until it had a visual on him and his well placed cameras and then pushing it into a charge by closing on it.

The hippo charges are all similarly orchestrated by getting between a hippo and where it wants to go or harassing it in a small pool. As entertaining as those videos are to watch and as exciting as that style of hunting hippos would be, none are unprovoked charges.

Suretrike,

Me saying: "You really think that's what Mark actually does??? Really? If so you base your unfailing certainty in this "FACT" on?????????" was in response to someone implying that Mark's charges occur because he or his clients purposefully gut shoot animals. You then answered to my post: "25 hours of video evidence". To me that meant 25 hours of video show he gut shoots animals to get them to charge. If that's not what you meant fine. If it is what you meant you are dreaming. I agree with what you said. Mark obviously provokes charges from loan hippos and wounded buffalo.........sometimes. He deos not intentionally wound them to provoke them to charge! There is a difference and it's big!

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
What Surestrike said!

Rich,

What Surestrike said was that Mark intentionally provokes charges from hippo and buffalo. I think anyone with a set of functional eyes and a glimps at MS videos could conclude that. Even Mark himself freely admits that's what he's trying to do in his books. That was not however what you were saying. You were accusing him of purposefully wounding game or making sure his clients wounded all their game and shooting everything even before his clients take their first shot. All of your accusations are heresay and bollicks!!!

Brett

Bret has nailed it and called out the BS.

I don't think the open letter posted here should have the author's personal opinion in it, but it's his letter.

Mark has always been very friendly, and I almost hunted with him. Didn't get to go at all but at the time, I being a novice, he was in the running.

His clients are the shitty shots. Also, he admitted to me that in the 10 minute episode with hippo that if you look close his second shot is delayed, he pulled the first trigger twice, and he pointed it out to me.

I don't have a problem with the way he follow's up on wounded
buff.

Playing to the camera is sensationalism and bizarre in a hunt vid. It doesn't play well at all.

I went back and watched a Brittingham promo and sure as shit you should've seen this pissed off bull hippo charging up out of the water. I thought the client was going to pass out afterwards as it sunk in. I'd toss a stone at a sleeping hippo!

After watching Bod & Ivan on Ele DVD, I felt as tho I'd just watched one of Mark's vids.

Given the climate around here now I'd say it's time to give Bunny Allen a redemption

Why is it whenever someone like this is criticized or unliked someone throws the jeaousy flag? I dont know the guy personally and cant speak from there. I have never hunted wth and probably wont. Why? Because I dont like the way he portrays himself or the hunting in the viedeos. Unfair? Not really just my choice to not pursue something I am turned off by. That said I also dont like the way SCI has handled the whole affair and will defend his right to a fair hearing for what that is worth.

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

You really think that's what Mark actually does??? Really? If so you base your unfailing certainty in this "FACT" on?????????

quote:

25 hours of video evidence", what a load of crap!

You should add some tabasco to that bullshit sandwich you are eating.

quote:

I've seen them all. To my memmory not one hippo was wounded before charging. NOT ONE! Most if not all of the charging buffalo on his video where wounded by poor shooting from a client. They were then followed up and charged after being wounded by poor shooting. In hunting wounded animals, following up wounded animals, and backup shots occur. What's different when Mark does it??? Are you suggesting he purposely has them wounded? If so that is absolute garbage! Please point out to me which charge was set up by intentionally wounding an animal and the proof you have of that "fact" and I'll gladdly go back and watch the video!

Brett

Holy crap you guys are a touchy, defensive, little bunch..

All I said is that is where "everybody" are getting their "facts", from watching the videos..

And while we are on the subject of the videos I've watched them all too. And in every single one of his buff charges he set up the charge by circling the wounded buff until it had a visual on him and his well placed cameras and then pushing it into a charge by closing on it.

The hippo charges are all similarly orchestrated by getting between a hippo and where it wants to go or harassing it in a small pool. As entertaining as those videos are to watch and as exciting as that style of hunting hippos would be, none are unprovoked charges.

Suretrike,

Me saying: "You really think that's what Mark actually does??? Really? If so you base your unfailing certainty in this "FACT" on?????????" was in response to someone implying that Mark's charges occur because he or his clients purposefully gut shoot animals. You then answered to my post: "25 hours of video evidence". To me that meant 25 hours of video show he gut shoots animals to get them to charge. If that's not what you meant fine. If it is what you meant you are dreaming. I agree with what you said. Mark obviously provokes charges from loan hippos and wounded buffalo.........sometimes. He deos not intentionally wound them to provoke them to charge! There is a difference and it's big!

Brett

If a PH is acting in a truly professional and ethical manner, he will get very few charges by non-target elephant or buffalo. In my contacts, it seems some PHs are always reporting having to shoot a cow that charged when another elephant in the herd was the actual target animal. I believe in most cases that charge is caused by approaching to close to the herd. Get inside a cow eles charge distance and your likely hood of being charged goes up exponentially. I suspect that in some cases it is done to provoke a charge and let the client take an extra animal at no cost. I won't mention any names but most of us have seen videos where a too close approach has precipitated a charge. Again in my opinion that is unprofessional and border line illegal. In fact it is illegal but almost impossible to prove. I also think it is very unprofessional to provoke a charge on a target animal. A PH's primary concern should be the safety of his client and staff. Intentionally provoking a charge can lead to putting all in unnecessary danger.

465H&H

quote:

He does frequently put anchor shots into clients animals as they go away, but I'd hardly call that shooting it for them.

Take a look at the scene on MS video where the elephant comes into a clearing and Mark(the client) misses the elephant, it turns and MS spines it. I say misses because you can see dust coming up behind the elephant, unless of course the client got full penetration on a broadside elephant. I would call that shooting his elephant for his client. I guess most of his clients are OK with MS shooting their animals.