To All Stakeholders: Please sent Name & e-mail address to pinkpantherontrack@gmail.com if you agree to this petition.
Your Privacy will be kept within this petition and will only be used for this purpose.

Note: A Copy of this Mission Statement was sent to the following authorities:
Honorable Minister of Ministry of Environmental & Tourism
Honorable Minister of Agricultural, Water and Forestry
Director of Directorate Scientific Services

Stakeholders Plea to stop the prohibition of leopard/cheetah hunting.

Mission Statement

1) By stopping trophy leopard hunting in 2010 will not act in the interest of national live stock producers and game farmers.
2) Regulations and control mechanisms can be dealt with in this year and conclusions can be arrived at in order that this trade can continue uninterrupted for 2010 an seasons to follow
3) No suspension of trophy hunting and problem animal control with hounds.
4) No moratorium or suspension of leopard/cheetah hunting for 2010.
5) A team of fair representation of all stake holders must be put together.
6) We strongly believe that the commercial farmers' voice is not being heard

Explanation


1) Predation by leopard and cheetah is a continual daily fact of life and most live/game stock producers can't afford this predation on their herds without any measure of effective control. Compensation derived by being able to sustainably and selectively harvest both cheetah and leopard by international trophy hunters goes a long way to generate a return of revenue incurred by predation for livestock producers. This in turn creates a level of tolerance toward these predators. These predators would otherwise be regarded as valueless problems and face indiscriminate persecution by live/game stock producers.

2) Financial implications resulting from no trade being allowed for 2010 trophy hunting season of leopard/cheetah will be astronomical.

3) Tracking predators with trained and well-disciplined hound teams, under proper control, is recognized as the most effective and selective method off hunting leopard in most international hunting circles. This is a traditional and acceptable method of hunting predators and is requested as an alternative to bait hunting by popular demand due to it's effectiveness. As been pointed out by many hunting clients, there are many who simply can not afford to repeatedly return to Africa in quest of a leopard trophy and fail. In this respect the effectiveness of well trained hound teams, in obtaining a trophy and dealing with a problem leopard, is of great value to the hunting industry and the commercial farmer.

4) The only acceptable condition why a moratorium should be implemented, is when an allocated quota has been reached. At this moment it is not transparent or clear that the quota for 2010 has been exceeded. If in fact it has not been exceeded, free and fair trade should be allowed to continue in the normal manner as in the past.

5) Stake Holders include the following: Commercial Farmers, MET, Problem Animal Control Specialists, Professional Hunters, Taxidermists, Shipping Agents, Safari Operators and any related income generating activities connected.

Pros

-To secure long term welfare of leopard/cheetah as a sustainable resource by adding value
- commercial farmers will receive compensation for damages incurred by predation through legal hunting
-approximately N$ 24 million annual income
-leopard/cheetah are a valuable attraction to foreign clients

Cons

- indiscriminate persecution of predators will take place due to financial losses incurred by commercial livestock farmers
- these animals will be considered a valueless liability
- loss of revenue from hunting and related activities such as tourism.


Thank you very much!
Pinkpantherontrack@gmail.com

It will be interesting to see how this pans out. My understanding is that the applications already submitted for tags already takes up all of 2009 and 2010 quota's and eats into the 2011 quota as well.

As always this means treading very carefully as one risks loosing all CITES quota...Zimbabwe started by placing a one year moratorium on the shooting of female leopard in 1998, and this is still in effect now...with very heavy fines for shooting a female (although the trophies may now be exported it it meets certain criteria and the PH has paid the US$2500 fine...

Namibia is going to have to find a better way to pre-allocate permits. If Quota's are properly set then you can indeed pre-allocate the tags, and genuine PAC reverts to just that- PAC!

Ganyana,

Your opinion about the quota is exactly what NAPHA wanted everybody to think. This in fact is so far from the truth, The Director of Scientific Services told us and I quote " we will have a healthy quota for 2010 to trade with, but the procedures and conditions concerning the issuing of these permits must be thoroughly investigated first and put in place. I will make a public announcement 30th of November 2009 to clear up all roomers concerning this whole issue."

Only time will tell now and I urge you and all involving stakeholders to not believe anything till we hear from our Ministry's Press Release on 30th of November 2009.

Again, I want to stipulate that we must stick to the facts and current conditions on the table!

I can not take an anonymous group of people going by "pinkpantherontrack" seriously. Sorry.

dla69, here, here!

When you wade off into the business of other professionals, in public, anonymous postings just don't get it.

Post you full name and your connection to the situation. Hiding does not lend credibility.

josh

I dont think they are ready to make themselves public yet. I assume there is some fear of retribution in one form or another. Although I can understand this attitude I must wonder if all these "stakeholders" are known to each other already. If someone who is remaining anonymous is asking for others identities I see some problems. I guess it is the Machiavellian side of me. I use my own name and make no secret of who I am. I do believe it adds to my credibility. I may not always be right but I stand behind what I say until proven wrong.

I am 100% behind the NAPHA position on this subject.

IMHO, anyone who isn't is either ignorant of the facts or cares far more about money than the conservation of Namibian leopards.

I actually support the moratorium. I am 100% behind leopard conservation. I still have problems with the attitude towards us. As I stated earlier there was no need to threaten us. They managed to alienate a lot of us who support them otherwise.

"I am 100% behind the NAPHA position on this subject.

IMHO, anyone who isn't is either ignorant of the facts or cares far more about money than the conservation of Namibian leopards."

EXACTLY! As our Namibian friend would say.

How they handled it left a lot to be desired, but the goal is right.

running your mouth publicly in Africa these days is a good way to have your head separated from your shoulders...

Just an opinion, of course...

Rich

I don't believe NAPHA! I do believe action should be taken against NAPHA in the form of legal prosecution of NAPHA officials and a true vote of NAPHA members to remove NAPHA perpetrators or else an international financial sanction be implemented against NAPHA.

NAPHA institued a Schorched Earth Terror Policy against all non-NAPHA PH's. NAPHA's zeal in the wanton commercial slaughter of non-NAPHA PH's included the tactic of destroying the non-NAPHA member "food source"....the foreign sportsman. Mainly Americans. NAPHA pursued its regin of terror against innocent sport hunters without any regard to the complete and utter destruction of lives. NAPHA perpetrators do not want their names publicly listed becuase they fear that the financial destruction they cold-heartedly calculated for non-NAPHA PH's and American clients will now be visited upon them as it will be. NAPHA perpetrators can run, but they can not hide!

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
I don't believe NAPHA! I do believe action should be taken against NAPHA in the form of legal prosecution of NAPHA officials and a true vote of NAPHA members to remove NAPHA perpetrators or else an international financial sanction be implemented against NAPHA.

NAPHA institued a Schorched Earth Terror Policy against all non-NAPHA PH's. NAPHA's zeal in the wanton commercial slaughter of non-NAPHA PH's included the tactic of destroying the non-NAPHA member "food source"....the foreign sportsman. Mainly Americans. NAPHA pursued its regin of terror against innocent sport hunters without any regard to the complete and utter destruction of lives. NAPHA perpetrators do not want their names publicly listed becuase they fear that the financial destruction they cold-heartedly calculated for non-NAPHA PH's and American clients will now be visited upon them as it will be. NAPHA perpetrators can run, but they can not hide!

This is beginning to look much like a one-track mind with an axe to grind.

We are Napha members and are sorry to say, but Napha has not only jeopardize the leopard hunting in Namibia, but Hunting in general. The problem is not over utilizing the leopard , but the implimentation of the current game laws to keep out illegal practises.

If money was not involved, there will be no wildlife left in Namibia.

WE SUPPORT PINKPANTHERONTRACK 100%

(IMO) The whole thing strikes me as a super mega bugly stuff up just now and as I see it, the best thing that could happen would be for everyone to take a step back and pause for thought and then try to sort everything put between the various associations and Gvt bodies and try to do it privately behind closed doors......... because I reckon people like CITES & USF&WS etc are probably watching what's going on and if for a moment some anti hunting dope official (or should that be official dope ) thinks that the CITES quota system and game laws etc is being abused in any way, the USF&WS may well stop issuing import licences until a long study has been completed and/or CITES may well either reduce or remove the quota until they're satisfied the quota system is being managed correctly.

Ideally, none of this would have been made public but it's too late to put the cat back in the bag......... I just hope it can be sorted out because if it can't, my guess is we haven't heard the last of it.

I don't see any point in trying to allocate blame at this point and I reckon the best thing that can happen is for all parties to stop arguing and start co-operating.

Let's just hope it can be sorted out quietly, discreetly and quickly for the benefit of all concerned.

When this magical time when everything is straightened out and everyone is happy finally occures, I still expect the leadership jackasses at NAPHA who put out the threatening message to American hunters to be fired.

In this fiasco, it is true that those who have played by the rules will likely be hurt.

But that is because the so-called rules have not been followed by many, or enforced against any.

NAPHA have been too polite, and politic, to place the full force of the blame where it fully belongs.

IMHO, a temporary moratorium - while hurtful to some, including the minority of the law-abiding - is the sad and only solution, IMHO.

In the long term, let us hope that the MET - with NAPHA's help - will get its arms around this problem and deal with it in an effective manner.

Napha officials made a statement without consulting it with there members first which they will have to explain on our next AGM in November, however after they realised the mistake in wording to get the actual message out they did try to rectify it and some members just do not want to except it. I'm a Namibian outfitter and a Napha member, some members are blowing this whole thing out of proportion, the short version is if you hunt with a PH Napha member or not and you're Ph takes you on hunts that is illegal without you're knowledge then you will not be prosecuted but your PH will have some explaining to do, the statement was meant for hunters that know that they are hunting illegaly just to get a Leopard, believe me we have cases where leopards were shot in cages just to say I have a Leopard. I'm not on the Napha board and have only been a member for two years and I also know there is a lot of PH's that is not members that are good operators.

Please guys Napha did try and fix there mistake, everybody makes mistakes, some people are ignorant and will not acknowledge their mistake, Napha recognised their mistake and knows the value of the hunting industry to Namibia.

Regarding pinkpantherontrack, I believe this is the outfitters hunting with hounds that's trying to get it reinstated. Here's a fact, from 2003 to 2005 there was shot an average of 140 Leoapards per year over bait, from 2005 to 2007 the number increased to 240 + Leoaprds per year due to hound hunting. Hunting a leopard with hounds costs a lot more then to hunt a Leopard over bait so I understand that they want to protect their industry. Last year on the Napha AGM most of the members voted to allow Leopards to be hunted with hounds, they even formed a houndsman association with promises that they will keep the Leopard hunting with hounds under control through there association, this year we had a special urgent meeting about leopard and Cheetah hunting in Namibia and the same members that voted for the houndsman association all turned around and voted against it because of all the illegalities that came with it, so I don't know how the pinkpantherontrack team wants to try again and sort this out, I believe there is too much money involved in leopard hunting with hounds and you will always have a problem regulating it.

Namibia cannot sustain a rate of 250 Leopards per year, 2009 qouta was already being hunted in 2008 and this year we took 2010 qouta in 2009, somewhere it has to stop and be rectified.

I didn't write this to get into a debate on the forum, I just want the members to get some facts about the Leopard hunting in Namibia and the view through my eyes as I see it as a Namibian outfitter.

Roy van der Merwe
Otjandaue Hunting Safaris

Hello to all AR members,

What happened to a little humor on our choice of name for the time being?

First of all you are perfectly correct on the reason why we want to stay anonymous. The problem we currently sitting with is that everybody feels like us, but nobody wants to stand up and take this issue on. Thus the reason why we want to see who really will support us and not. Currently we have 243 landowners, 16 Outfitters and 2 Professional Houndsman supporting us.

Last survey/research done in 2003, by Dr Philip (Flip) Stander showed that we can successfully hunt 332 leopards per annum, without disturbing the leopard population of Namibia. 250 CITES permits are currently on quota, conservative to say the least. Once CITES reduces a quota, it will be hard for us to get it back up. It took us 12 years to get it from 100 to 250, NAPHA is not helping at the moment, instead they are sending a message out that will stop leopard hunting period. They do not have proof of any of this unethical hunting methods, just speculation.
To answer your question, we are definitely not harvesting too many leopards, but the problem is that too many unethical hunting methods were used to devastate the quota too soon. Hounds were unfortunately the only method to point fingers to, instead of the Outfitters being the real culprits.

The jealousy within NAPHA is one of the main reasons for this whole mess, but everybody needs to know that it is only a handful NAPHA members that are pursuing this and not the majority. We are the silent majority that needs to react now, before it is too late, if not already?


There are so many issues out there and it will take us too long to explain on this forum. But, know this, it is time to stand up to NAPHA. They are saying and speculating whatever they want and it is harming our industry at the moment, instead of giving all of us proof on the table and prosecute the culprits.

We would like to sort this out within Namibia and approached this forum only on invitation from AR members.
We would like to thank every AR member that supported our views on the PM service.
Happy Hunting!
PinkPanther

Most of us will make the time for this discussion. It is as important to us as it is to you. We need to hear all the issues from all sides. So far I have not seen any facts from NAPHA and not much from you folks. I tink it is high time it all gets addressed publicly.

And most importantly get a well known cat research specialist who is respected by CITES (like Netty Purchace or Cecil Muchena) to asses the facts, trophy sizes, average age of leopard taken etc. CITES is not a hunters friend, and they dislike their 'truth' being confronted with facts.

Having been one of the back room boys at a CITES convention where facts lost out to emotion (ft Lauderdale) and one of the public figures where namibian leadership enabled us to get elephant downlisted again and also get a cheetah quota (harare)...I have some insights into the workings of this international beast.

Keep your dirty laundry internal and hire the vry best 'hunting neutral' scientist to do the odd audit!

Mike - check your PMs please!

2011 might have some big leopards

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
Keep your dirty laundry internal and hire the vry best 'hunting neutral' scientist to do the odd audit!

I tried to stay out of this but have to agree with Ganyana on this one.
NAPHA has their AGM beginning of December the ideal place to address internal issues.
Yes I agree the NAPHA press release should not have been released or at least written with clearer explanations as to the why and how and more important done so internally before being made public.

quote:

Originally posted by Otjandaue Hunting Safaris: Namibia cannot sustain a rate of 250 Leopards per year, 2009 qouta was already being hunted in 2008 and this year we took 2010 qouta in 2009, somewhere it has to stop and be rectified.

I'm with Roy on this one and support the moratorium on Leopard and Cheetah for 2010.

quote:

Originally posted by pinkpantherontrack:
First of all you are perfectly correct on the reason why we want to stay anonymous. The problem we currently sitting with is that everybody feels like us, but nobody wants to stand up and take this issue on. Thus the reason why we want to see who really will support us and not. Currently we have 243 landowners, 16 Outfitters and 2 Professional Houndsman supporting us.

As Pinkpantherontrack is talking on behalf of commercial farmers was this petition approved by the Namibian Agriculture Union? No I don't think so and in any case what does 243 commercial livestock farmers have to do with NAPHA and their issues???? These so-called commercial farmers is one of the main culprits when it comes to Leopard and Cheetah hunting as they are the guys who catch and sell drugged Leopard and Cheetah to outfitters and have Non-Namibian registered PH's hunt their properties without legal MET permits and turning a blind eye for a couple of bucks and then blaming it all on livestock losses.

I fail to see any relevance as to the Pinkpantherontrack petition with the heading of this post regarding NAPHA's press release as there is NO mention of any of the press release points in the petition they merely saw a gap and jumped on the NAPHA bandwagon.

Unfortunately I can also not take anyone serious that hides behind an anonymous name such as "Pink Panther" and then request others to reveal their real identities!

Ganyana, I enjoyed your article on buffalo rifles in the new issue of Rifle magazine.

Roger,

Unfortunately for you, we did talk to NAU. We also talked to the Minister of Agriculture Mr. John Mutorwa. Other than your so called Association, we do have our facts straight and went through the right channels.
You must remember one thing, the commercial farmers are the custodians of leopard/cheetah and they are in direct conflict. If your bow hunting operation were affected, you would have been the first to protect it. You as a bowhunter can't shoot leopard with bow and arrow in Namibia, thus your attitude!
On the private message you fail to answer us, we will give you a chance now to answer the question again. How many NAPHA members were on this so called meeting? If you answer this, then you should know that your vote was made by the minority of NAPHA members. How the hell can you say you support this.
Do not take us serious, it is your choice! But you are missing the point, we ask to agree to our statement and not who we are.

You do not see any relevance, that shows us you have no clue. You say the commercial farmers drug leopards, where is the proof? Watch out what you say, you, just like NAPHA spread these roomers, but nobody has been caught doing it. Instead you are sending the wrong message out to the world, that is the sort of info animal rights groups thrive on.

Yes you are correct as a bowhunter I cannot shoot them but I do own a couple of rifles so does some of my hunters!

It doesn't mean because I support the 2010 moratorium that I don't support Leopard and Cheetah hunting by all means I'm all for predator hunting it a great and exciting hunt and little can compare to that feeling when you hear those short grunts of a big Tom only a few yards away.

My problem is the fact that you want the hunting community to support your petition but you are not prepared to disclose your identities, how can I support an unknown entity? Until then please un-subscribe me from your mailing list!

Wilddog likes to introduce himself. I am Namibian farmer and I have been born here, grew up here and have lived many many years in Namibia. I see, feel and experience the negative sides from these illegal and unscrupulous leopard hunting going on. These few people, to me, fall into the same category as those of 9/11, I like to call them “hunting terrorists”, nothing else, and they should be treated accordingly. I am NOT talking about hunters, I am just talking about partly legal but also illegal operators , dog handlers, pHs, non–registered guides some local but most of them coming in from South Africa. Through their evil way of doing things and malpractices they are busy destroying our good hunting twin tower and they do not care because if it is down they just pull out and go back to SA. That is also a fact.

I have read the chat forum for quite some time and want to summarize: NAPHA has may be made a mistake in their wording of the press release but their intention was good and correct. NAPHA is not made out of sugar which starts dissolving if pinkpanther wee against its base. Yes NAPHA was originally made from a group Teutonic’s and believe me it will stand like a rock in the surf and it has seen many waves’ high tides and low tides. The only difference over the years the rock surface has become smoother that’s all. Two little South Africans, who are mainly behind pinkpanther are trying to make themselves look big they will not make a scratch on the surface of NAPHA. They are actually running, being afraid of loosing their lucrative market. If you are running in Namibia you will stir up dust and that what are busy doing: Minister, MET, commercial farmers etc. They will never ever disclose their names because they will be out of business tomorrow. Their names are known lets call them for the moment pink and panther. Panther is a young SA who has hunted many leopards at night with artificial light and also with dogs and the help of pink. He has already been charged for illegal night hunting. I think his case has been mentioned here on the chat forum. Pink is a SA dog handler and the author of all the chat contributions. He is a member of NAPHA that why he talks of “we” and the minority who voted against etc. all nonsense but his problem is he was not accepted by the Namibian dog hounds association and that for good reasons. Panther is not a NAPHA member but simply bad news in the hunting circles and he is known for not respecting farm borders etc. Other writers who are in support of the moratorium of NAPHA and who mentioned the leopards waiting in box traps etc. are totally correct in what they have said.
None of the two or anyone else in that minigroup have fighted for the leopard quota to be put up from 100 to 250 to talk about “we” is a joke and the apparent quota calculated by Flip Stander is very questionable based on questionnaires which had to be filled out. The so called predator atlas of Namibia was NOT a success. If he knew everything so well about predators in Namibia why than have US fish and Wildlife not granted us an export quota for cheetah. Please explain to us how did he calculate the number of leopards and or cheetah in Namibia ...his deductions from the questionnaires is not more than a very vague estimation.
This information just to give you the picture behind the scene.

(IMHO) all these hidden identities, accusations and counter accusations are only making things increasingly worse for African hunters and the African hunting industry.

You can bet your life that CITES, USF&WS and God alone knows who else is watching these posts....... and it's it's almost certain to end up in reduced quotas (at least), harder imports (at least) and damage to the Namibian hunting industry.

The cat is now firmly out of the bag (pardon the pun) but the longer it goes on in public, the worse it's gonna get.

Far better for all concerned if the entire matter is settled behind closed doors.

Wild Dog:

Welcome to the AR forums and thank you for this perspective.

I hope we hear more from you as this story and situation develops.

Regards,

RCG

I've seen behind the scenes of the NAPHA organized crime syndicate. NAPHA and NAPHA alone is fully responsible for what's happening now and will continue happening to Namibia hunting. NAPHA's willful attack on international sportsmen, mainly targeting Americans, was based on NAPHA GREED. NAPHA acted in complete disregard for American lives and lives of honest sportsmen worldwide. NAPHA members should be investigated by Namibian authorities and NAPHA members should be detained and investigated by American authorities should they set foot on American soil.

As I have said before NAPHA stands as rock in the surf. If you look at the Namibian landscape of different associations NAPHA is the Porsche of the Associations i.e. by far the best organized group. There was many years ago a so called game producers association this was the organization of the farmers and there aim was to look after their game. In terms of leopards it was mentioned it is the farmers who offer the support base of these animals which is true but the very same farmers have not been able to run their association and it died a natural death today it does not exist anymore. Anyone who knows what it takes to get an organization up and running and keep it running also knows a little wee on the tire of the Porsche will not affect its speed. So all the comments in terms of the NAPHA Exco have to be taken to court and what not else is the biggest nonsense I have ever heard. If you want to change anything and if you are not happy there is in our modern society only one way and that we have learned from the USA the most modern western country and it is called democracy. Only a democratic outvoted Exco can change something and that is the only way full stop. Namibia is independent and we are not going back to the outdated autocratic apartheid and racial style of decision making. NAPHA does not care if you are a member or not, they have enough members and the association is running very well, their bottom line of their press release is: we have hunting laws in Namibia and just play according to those rules in a fair way that’s all...if not NAPHA is going to help the official body in Namibia to maintain law and order and NAPHA is going to talk to the clients to be care full not to be lured into an illegal hunting activity. That’s all. NAPHA is the only official registered private representative of the organized hunting industry …and it is in line with government policy as they do NOT want to talk to any Dick, Tom and Henry just representing a hand full of interest but to ONE body representing the majority of the hunting industry which is NAPHA. NAPHA is also a main player of the tourism roof organization called FENATA which again is the common mouthpiece vis-a-vis the government in terms of general tourism questions like visa, airport tax and many other topics.

quote:

Originally posted by Buliwyf:
I've seen behind the scenes of the NAPHA organized crime syndicate. NAPHA and NAPHA alone is fully responsible for what's happening now and will continue happening to Namibia hunting. NAPHA's willful attack on international sportsmen, mainly targeting Americans, was based on NAPHA GREED. NAPHA acted in complete disregard for American lives and lives of honest sportsmen worldwide. NAPHA members should be investigated by Namibian authorities and NAPHA members should be detained and investigated by American authorities should they set foot on American soil.

You should write fiction, you seriously dream up some great stuff!

You've been behind the scenes, isn't it TRUE YOU'VE NEVER BEEN TO NAMIBIA????

You've now decided to go after the Namibian Mafia and their crime syndicate, SO BRAVE!

thanks for exposing their evil plans... LET ME GUESS, GIANT LASER and they plan to hold the world hostage for 1 Billion Dollars...hahahahaha

You should really wake up and realize how ridiculous you sound.

quote:

Originally posted by The Wild Dog:
As I have said before NAPHA stands as rock in the surf. If you look at the Namibian landscape of different associations NAPHA is the Porsche of the Associations i.e. by far the best organized group. There was many years ago a so called game producers association this was the organization of the farmers and there aim was to look after their game. In terms of leopards it was mentioned it is the farmers who offer the support base of these animals which is true but the very same farmers have not been able to run their association and it died a natural death today it does not exist anymore. Anyone who knows what it takes to get an organization up and running and keep it running also knows a little wee on the tire of the Porsche will not affect its speed. So all the comments in terms of the NAPHA Exco have to be taken to court and what not else is the biggest nonsense I have ever heard. If you want to change anything and if you are not happy there is in our modern society only one way and that we have learned from the USA the most modern western country and it is called democracy. Only a democratic outvoted Exco can change something and that is the only way full stop. Namibia is independent and we are not going back to the outdated autocratic apartheid and racial style of decision making. NAPHA does not care if you are a member or not, they have enough members and the association is running very well, their bottom line of their press release is: we have hunting laws in Namibia and just play according to those rules in a fair way that’s all...if not NAPHA is going to help the official body in Namibia to maintain law and order and NAPHA is going to talk to the clients to be care full not to be lured into an illegal hunting activity. That’s all. NAPHA is the only official registered private representative of the organized hunting industry …and it is in line with government policy as they do NOT want to talk to any Dick, Tom and Henry just representing a hand full of interest but to ONE body representing the majority of the hunting industry which is NAPHA. NAPHA is also a main player of the tourism roof organization called FENATA which again is the common mouthpiece vis-a-vis the government in terms of general tourism questions like visa, airport tax and many other topics.

Regardless of ow good NAPHA are, they sure make a major screw up with their announced intentions of reporting hunters in other countries to their own authorities - in this case Americans hunters.

I have never been to Namibia, and the Lacy Act does not apply to me, but their announcement tells me they are incapable of sorting their own house, hence resorting to relying on scare tactics to get hunters to only book with their members.

The sad part is this announcemnt has probably scared a lot of Americans from booking hunts in Namibia, and the damage caused is going to take a long time to repair.

This is bad on many levels. NAPHA is self destructiong the hunting industry in Namibia, now I just hope it doesn't spill over to other countries.

If the Leopard census system is not remotely accurate as is alleged above then the CITES quota system is suspect. If USFG takes this track of thought you can end up with another Cheetah or Black Face Impala.

Then if the Leopard census is suspect in an established and stable country like Namibia, then you can bet they will take a critical look at all the other countries.

I would suggest that anyone with influence or even an ear at NAPHA tell them to take this conversation private or it will possibly snowball out of any semblance of control.

AR Members,

Clearly we finally got through to NAPHA, Wild Dog is one of the bad apples in the NAPHA Leadership Team, you can see it in the way she expressed herself. Enough said, we can go on and on.............nothing will change their arrogant attitude!
The PinkPanther Consortium succeeded 100%, we thank those who supported us and will give a full report soon of who we are and the status of leopard hunting in 2010.
Happy Hunting!
The Pink or is now the Panther.

Wild dog just made a test I with my hand, thank you pink, I have lost nothing, I am still just a normal male farmer who experiences the negativ sides of this uncontrolled leopard hunting. I was already getting worried about my gender. Dear administrator, we live in a free world, but in my opinion an administrator should be more neutral. Why are you so negative towards NAPHA and you are repeating yourself. You have not even been in Namibia. Or is that part of the game how this forum works? I have a few miles under my feet and I try to see what is good and what is possible now and in the future but I do not want to waste my time and try to convince just negative people and permanent negative perceptions. So this might be my last contribution as my rule of life is just get away from negative people ....if they see flowers they think already of a graveyard.
NAPHA has admitted its mistake and said sorry so why keep on hammering on the lacey act what for? According to my information nothing has happened and nothing will happen, so thank you for your worries and feed back I have totally trust in NAPHA’s management that they have taken note of it and will react accordingly. And what you say about just getting business for its own members is simply not true. I do not know why you are so negative? Do you really think not to be organized not having a minimum of control and guidance is better, do you not believe in a most common denominator which is democracy?? Do you not know that an association is nothing else than an organized lobby group to bundle common interests and to have a one mouth peace vis-à-vis the government in terms of consulting and co-operation. Sure it has an office infrastructure to get things done. Some are well managed and some are not like different companies. My experience says NAPHA is well organized. But may be we are just not living in the same reality?
JohnHunt I have read all your comments, you are very well educated and it is really a pity that all comments are quite negative. I have the feeling something has gone wrong. It will appear to me without knowing any details that you may not been treated well here, and even if it cannot be turned back, you will agree that whoever treated you so bad should be sorted out. But let me tell you the damage for Namibia is there in anyway but it will not stay forever. Life goes on and life is fair. If you are not stupid you should learn from mistakes. You simply do not know what is happening on the ground and NAPHA had to react and it has been the members who voted democratically for the moratorium to ask the government to stop the hunting for a while just to get things sorted out. You can talk to many serious operators and they all agree. But some people for example like the Pink panther group coming from South Africa will be the losers as there will be no business for a while (or forever) that is why they try every trick of the trade to discredit everybody and stir up dust as much as they can to lobby and to keep this thing going as they have no alternative income. If I am wrong just wait and see. I had the chance to talk to an high official from government, it had nothing to do with hunting, but somehow the subject was mentioned and the person said the dog hunting will be stopped that seems to be 99% certain. By the way the quota of 250 was laid down by Dr Malan Lindequi, a very very respectful man, and there is no question that the quota was 100% correct. I agree with Roy van der Merwe it is may be not sustainable on the long run. I just wanted to say now is NOT the time to talk about a new or different quota before the house is not in order. Would you like to read about box trap hunting etc. and than you tell me if NAPHA’s action was correct or not you just get sick!!! Just give Namibia time they will get it right I have no doubts. Honest operators are not worried about what has been said on the forum and about the apparent damage for Namibia and if someone decides not to come that is ok at least he will not be subject or lured into to any possible illegal or box trap hunt before the house is not in order which could make it even worse. Until the dog hunting in SA was closed (why was it closed ???) everything was manageable fine in Namibia with the leopard hunts. Than some of the people from SA came to Namibia and the shit started to hit the fan here too…and now exactly the same will happen here, like in SA, the dog hunting will be closed…you see how stupid they are …instead of learning they repeat the same mistakes …..money blur’s clear thinking. Everybody knows the best advertisement is word by mouth and hunters who know Namibia, who have been here and made positive experiences, will tell their friends where to go and where not to go.

quote:

Dear administrator, we live in a free world, but in my opinion an administrator should be more neutral. Why are you so negative towards NAPHA and you are repeating yourself. You have not even been in Namibia. Or is that part of the game how this forum works?

As an Administrator I do have my own opinion too.

I won't stop you stating yours, neither others stating theirs.

I have already stated I have never been to Namibia, and regardless of that fact, NAPHA announcement that they will report American hunters to the USFW was so out of line it was asking for an answer.

If NAPHA has any internal problems with their members - or PHs who are not members - they should be reporting them to the Namibian authorities. And leave the clients - who are most likely are totally unaware that they are breaking any rules or laws in Namibia.

If you are worried about others trapping leopards in cages and then misleading foreign clients to shoot them, why don't you name those outfitters?

I have hunted in several African countries, and I suspect I am no different than 99% of foreign clients that hunt Africa.

We book with who we assume is a reputable outfitter - and leave all the legal details for him to take care.

NAPHA has dug a very deep hole for themselves by that announcement, and so far they have not said anything that will change my mind about that.

I don't think anyone here is really interested in your numbers of quota for leopard.

That is a internal Namibian affair.

From what has been posted on leopard hunting in Namibia, it seems there has been a lot of rather loose applications of the permits - hence the present predicament the Namibian authorities find themselves in.

Again, the Namibian authorities, as well as NAPHA, should really put their own house in order, and not threaten clients from what probably is the largest country with hunters going to hunt there.

NAPHA can take any actions they deem correct, but reporting American hunters to the USFW defies any reasonable explanation.

So now it is the South Africans who are to blame?

If they have broken any Namibian laws, shouldn't they be prosecuted in Namibia?

Again, what has this got to do with reporting Americans to the USFW?

I think I will continue to counsel all of my friends to just stay out of Namibia for the forseeable future.

For some reason no other country in Africa has this sort of "Cluster F--k" and blackmail threats taking place by a group that is supposed to take care of business. Get your government off it's ass and don't allow anybody to hunt without proper licensing.

napha, mafia, nazis, notice how all of those fine upstanding organizations have five letters?

Just say no to Namibia.

regards,

Rich

Thank you Saeed,
Your last statement could not have echoed my thoughts and those of many American hunters more clearly.

The so called half retraction and half apology by NAPHA's initial press release was obviously a vain attempt to dampen the "unexpected adverse reaction" from American hunters. However, NAPHA must now perform distinct damage control. It will be most interesting to receive feedback of NAPHA's AGM in December. I'm certain that the silent majority will make themselves heard.

Geoff

quote:

Originally posted by The Wild Dog:
...JohnHunt I have read all your comments, you are very well educated and it is really a pity that all comments are quite negative. I have the feeling something has gone wrong. It will appear to me without knowing any details that you may not been treated well here, and even if it cannot be turned back, you will agree that whoever treated you so bad should be sorted out. But let me tell you the damage for Namibia is there in anyway but it will not stay forever. Life goes on and life is fair. If you are not stupid you should learn from mistakes. You simply do not know what is happening on the ground and NAPHA had to react and it has been the members who voted democratically for the moratorium to ask the government to stop the hunting for a while just to get things sorted out.

Thank you for the compliment. It isn't often that someone calls me "well educated".

If you simply see negative in my comments then you are missing the point. If anything my comments have been trying to help NAPHA and the hunting industry in Namibia keep from shooting themselves in the foot (something they seem determined to do regardless).

Yes I took a safari in Namibia with my family last year. It had it's ups and downs. You can read the hunt report on this site if you like. It has been posted for over a year.

Maybe I understand the cultural issues a bit more then you may give me credit for. I grew up in Germany and have some experience with the teutonic way of thinking. Not everything translates well.

Again, I would strongly recomend that you guys get a hold of SCI or Conservation Force for some public relations advice. Maybe they will show you that you can have a successful Leopard conservation program without threatening your main clientele.
We all want the Leopards to be well managed but what happens when American hunters can no longer import them because of the way you are handling this? How will that help with there conservation?
Regards,

John