Gentlemen:

The new edition of Cabela's Hunt catalog came today and the animals shown are impressive to say the least! However, that does not mean everyone takes a similar animal (high fenced guaranteed hunts are the exception--such as the Sanctuary and their whitetails). A couple of weeks ago I saw a red deer from an outfitter in Argentina with so many points one needed a calculator to tally them. The most impressive animal I've seen. But (if not high fenced) is it a realistic expectation?

Granted, PHs, outfitters, and agents are in the business to sell hunts and if a hunt is not sold, money is not made. As a potential hunter/client, are you satisfied with seeing pics of the biggest and the best? What else to you need to know? Is what you are told enough or do you ask or research more? What research do you do? Does a photo of a huge trophy have much influence on your decision?

Should the agent, PH, or outfitter volunteer 100% of the information about the hunt, or should they tell only if asked? One PH I knew 10 years past used the phrase, "We never had it in writing" if a question came up after the fact and he wanted to avoid facing an issue.

In addition:
How important is it that the agent has personally been to the hunting area and/or actually hunted there?
The advantages and disadvantages of using an agent--both domestic and overseas hunts?
Are references important if only the positive references are provided?
Are photos important if only the top trophies are shown?
Is game quality and quantity to be researched, or is the PH, outfitter, or agent's word enough?
What else is pertinent?

Is booking a hunt in Africa different than the booking processes in USA, or the rest of the world? Do you do things differently from one country to the next?

In closing, what do you expect to be told, what do you ask, and what is the responsibility of the agent PH, outfitter to make available information and what is your responsibility as the hunter/client?

What say you, gentlemen? Lots of stuff here but give it your best shot.
Cheers,
Cal

PS. And, speaking of the Cabelas catalog, Some of the prices knocked me out of my chair. Moose and grizzly approaching $30K!!! I hunted them for my $25 license--until I qualified for my free license at 60!

Hunt with friends. You won't begrudge the money. They'll do all they can.

Hunt or book with/via people you know or who have a decent reputation. I think that avoides most problems.

An agent who hasn't hunted an area or hasn't been to the area should only book it if he knows the outfitter very well.
Agents who just sell hunts based on what they can find on the internet are absolutely useless.
That's why I don't like any of the "booking websites".

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Hunt with friends. You won't begrudge the money. They'll do all they can.

+1

Good Morning Cal,

Great Thread. As many probably know, I use one booking agent and only one. He has proven through his repeated actions for 16 years that he is and always has looked after my best interests and will only recommend a booking that he feels "fits me, my expectations and budget the best"

I booked a discounted Tanzania hunt last year from the discounted hunt forum here. My agent, even though he received exactly zero for doing so, vetted the hunt for me. He couldn't find enough info, good OR bad to draw any conclusion.

The safari turned out to be a disaster.

Were I an outfitter or agent, I would use the highest quality trophy pictures that I had access to. I don't see it as disingenuous at all, as long as they were obtained in the area being advertised.

As far as trophy quality, I have never looked at size as a measuring device as to the quality of the overall experience. That said, I have been an extraordinarily fortunate (Lucky) man. I always seem to shoot very high quality stuff, without skipping opportunities at lesser trophies.

My CAR safari with Mike Fell was ridiculous. EVERY SINGLE Trophy was exceptional. Just dumb luck. I saw exactly ONE Bongo and it wound up being the largest of CAWA's 2012 season. The LDE was shot from a herd of ~150 animals containing only 2 bulls. The old broomed one I killed or a younger longer less impressive bull.

I'm booked for Tanzania for September 2017 and will be interested to see if my luck holds up.

Now, go shovel some snow, I need to go outside and shovel some sunshine

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Hunt with friends. You won't begrudge the money. They'll do all they can.

+1

+1

But the real problem is by the time you find your real friends you may have to go thru some real shady characters.

Mike

First,I like to go hunt with someone who lets me do things my way.Second, I like to go hunt someplace where I want to hunt.These are my most important considerations.I also like to get the most value for my money.I will not pretend anyone is my friend and that I have to accept everything that is to their financial interest so that I will remain on their list of favoured clients.

One could write a book to answer this thread.

First, Thanks Cal, glad you thought the photos in our catalog were impressive. We do try to pick the best trophies our clients shoot.

2ndly, for those that don't know, my company , Worldwide Trophy Adventures, bought Cabela's Outdoor Adventures last December, but we still partner with Cabela's, so it is actually a WTA catalog.We are working hard to improve customer service, etc.

3rd- on the prices, please know we don't set the prices. The outfitters set prices. The $25-30k moose and bear hunts are set by outfitters, and they are selling at that price. A moose hunt I sold in 2013 for $13,500 is now $26,000. That being said, they only do about 8 a year, and the average is 63" with 2-3 70" plus bulls each year, and a longterm 90-95% success with a rifle. It is a ton of $, but they produce. Same would go for brown bear hunts with high quality outfitters like AR member Phil Shoemaker. You can't get a better hunt, but it is expensive, he produces big time, and he limits the # of hunts.

Nothing is foolproof in booking hunts. You have to book with agents or outfitters you trust, it is about that simple. No one is flawless and not every single hunt will go 100% perfect, but research, good agents/outfitters, and just being thorough will sure go a long way. I know I did not answer any of the actual questions, but just wanted to chime in a little on the post.

I have booked hunts several ways, and in my view, there is not one best or right way. Common sense, business sense and maybe a little luck comes in to play.

I have gone through reputable booking agents that have been around a while and have a good reputation. This has worked reasonably well for me.

I have talked to guys on the internet and took their recommendations and that worked well. But I cross checked with several sources before committing.

And I booked a hunt (alaska) basis a meeting with the outfitter at DSC, that was a mistake.

most of the i book with an outfitter i have met and have a friend who can recommend him. i've used agents but have been ripped enough that i only trust mark young any more. sadly if you want to go someplace exotic that youo must use an unknown source, beware

One of the best and trustworthy guys in booking business from my experience and many others is Tim Herald
Yes, nothing is foolproof and prices are going up due to improved economy

So due diligence in any transaction is a must

The Cabelas hunts seem way overpriced IMO. I have no doubt that you could go straight to the outfitter and get a better deal. I also don't trust that booking agents are 100% forthcoming with the facts, some are, some aren't I'm sure. I see no value in using one. I know there are some in the business just so they can hunt for free, or try to.

JG- I can 100% guarantee that WTA ("Cabela's") does not add on 1 cent to the hunts from the outfitters. We do not do that. You might go get an outfitter to give you a break on some hunt (which in the industry is thought of pretty badly to undercut your agents that try to help you)- but we do not raise the prices at all. We go with what the outfitter tells us. We do have some high prices on some hunts because we deal with some of the best outfitters that command a high price. For instance we have elk hunts from $3,800 to $30,000 (on this one the landowner tag is $22,000- so who is making the $? We only get commission on the actual hunt portion)). We have pronghorn from $2450 to $8500 (these are low volume and average over B&C trophies). It all depends on when, where and what the average size of trophy is that the outfitter takes. Again, we do not set the prices...I have had a number of outfitters tell me they need $X and I can add on whatever I want as the commission (that's not commission, that' add on). I will not do that, and just won't deal with those outfitters.

Lumping agents all together is just like lumping all outfitters together, all attorneys together, or all doctors together. There are good and bad, and the good ones can be of valuable service. In the case of agents, they should never cost you a dime. The outfitter should pay them for the marketing, and the rice should be the same for clients that come through an agent or those that go straight to an outfitter.

Tim:
Thanks for setting me straight on the catalog. Impressive trophies to say the least. And, I should let you know this: I still get communications from my thread on hunt contracts (June adn July America Hunting forums). Well over a hundred emails and many agents, PHs, and outfitters are mentioned. You, sir, are batting 100% as to positive comments. Not one negative and not one neutral. All write very highly of you as to your ethics and honesty. I wish more agents followed your example.
Just my observations.
Cal

Thanks Cal. I try to be straight up, period. I will tell you the short comings of a hunt up front (if I know them). I will tell you if I don't think a hunt is for you, and I am transparent about who you are hunting with and always happy for you to talk to the outfitter direct if that's what you want. I am certainly not perfect, but I try my best. Glad folks shared with you that I am doing a decent job and am honest.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
Good Morning Cal,


Now, go shovel some snow, I need to go outside and shovel some sunshine

Steve

Just remember to hold your breath during the sandstorms and have very regular dermatologist follow-up.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
Good Morning Cal,


Now, go shovel some snow, I need to go outside and shovel some sunshine

Steve

Just remember to hold your breath during the sandstorms and have very regular dermatologist follow-up.

Drove up to Flagstaff today to check on the progress of our Cabin. Dang it was cold. The subfloor was frozen and we slipped and slid around like an ice rink.

Gotta learn how to walk on this stuff.

Steve:
I'm a bit worried about you, my friend. When you emailed the temp dropped to 86 degrees (F) I wanted to direct you to web pages to get information about frostbite and hypothermia. You can lose toes and fingers and the tip of your nose and ears to extreme low temperatures (just as you can to extreme sun burn).
Stay healthy, my mate.
Cal

Tim, I am in no way suggesting you are dishonest. I do not know you but know a few outfitters you have hunted with. I do know that in my buddy and my small time outfitting business, we have had such good luck in the past with killing big mule deer that we have had several brokers "offering" to book hunts on our behalf. Most of them wanted a free hunt first, then they would give us "free" publicity. We told every one of them to take a hike. I know I have never seen an African hunt by any broker in which I couldn't find a better deal myself with the same or and equally reputable outfitter. Once again, not a reflection of you personally.

No offense taken. Just wanted to clarify that we do not tack on $ on top of prices that outfitters give us.

On my 3 safaris I have always booked directly with the PH. That has worked well for me. Having a contract and reading and understanding it is important. I always write down questions before meeting with the PH, that way I don't forget items that might be important for me (i.e. is airport transfers included, etc).

BH63