Just an observation here, nothing more. Hunting programs on television leave much to be desired in many folks opinions. Personally I don't watch any of them even though there are a few that do seem to have consistently decent content.

Has the time come for hunting shows to disappear because of the image they are portraying hunters and hunting in? Everyone seems to have problems with the various shows, even those that do try to show hunting/hunters in a realistic manner.

Add to that, as has been so visibly pointed out time and again on this site and most if not all of the other internet hunting sites, hunters simply can not get along.

We make all kinds of claims about standing united against PETA and other Animal Rights Groups, we make claims about being supportive of each other and protecting our rights to own guns and maintaining our ability to hunt, yet because of our own individual beliefs/views about hunting, the vast majority of us seem to be one or two words or sentences away from ripping each other to pieces on these sites.

Are we watching the death throes of the activity that we are all supposed to have in common, and are we as a group only hastening that death due to our own individual inability to accept the fact that while we have hunting in common we can not deal with the idea that not everyone views hunting or their role in the activity in the exact same manner.

Have we or are we on a precipice as far as hunting is concerned and due to our own individual inability/inflexibility concerning our fellow hunters ideas about hunting and because of those differences, going to see hunting tumble over the edge and be lost to all of us.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Just an observation here, nothing more. Hunting programs on television leave much to be desired in many folks opinions. Personally I don't watch any of them even though there are a few that do seem to have consistently decent content.

Has the time come for hunting shows to disappear because of the image they are portraying hunters and hunting in? Everyone seems to have problems with the various shows, even those that do try to show hunting/hunters in a realistic manner.

Add to that, as has been so visibly pointed out time and again on this site and most if not all of the other internet hunting sites, hunters simply can not get along.

We make all kinds of claims about standing united against PETA and other Animal Rights Groups, we make claims about being supportive of each other and protecting our rights to own guns and maintaining our ability to hunt, yet because of our own individual beliefs/views about hunting, the vast majority of us seem to be one or two words or sentences away from ripping each other to pieces on these sites.

Are we watching the death throes of the activity that we are all supposed to have in common, and are we as a group only hastening that death due to our own individual inability to accept the fact that while we have hunting in common we can not deal with the idea that not everyone views hunting or their role in the activity in the exact same manner.

Have we or are we on a precipice as far as hunting is concerned and due to our own individual inability/inflexibility concerning our fellow hunters ideas about hunting and because of those differences, going to see hunting tumble over the edge and be lost to all of us.

350 very well crafted words, to say; “Live and let live, and go hunting the way you choose!”
I totally agree! We seem to be our own worse enemy! However the hard core anti-hunting crowd will never change, but our attitude is not winning the people who are setting on the fence, but driving them to the antis!

I think the TV hunting accurately reflects the majority of American hunters. Otherwise they wouldn't exist since they couldn't sell advertising which is the sole purpose of the thing.

Also, I'm just not a herd animal. I'm not going to support even with silence any form of alleged hunting that I find completely disgusting. My personal integrity is all I have that cannot be taken from me.

Navaluk makes an interesting point...We hunters have a lot of "diversity" among our ranks - why we hunt ; hunting methods/ styles; etc...

Makes me wonder about the disagreements & divisiveness among the PETA/"antis" crowd?

All the people on the other side have just as many divides and disagreements as we do otherwise they would have a lot more power/clout over us/politicians.
Welcome to the world of "PEOPLE"
Difference is, what makes us industrious and innovative.
Otherwise, we'd be still living in caves and hunting mammoths ( which maybe wouldn't be so bad )

quote:

Otherwise, we'd be still living in caves and hunting mammoths ( which maybe wouldn't be so bad )

As long as my cave had central air & heat & a refrigerator & a lazy boy recliner & a really comfortable bed & a coffee maker & a TV & a shower. Heck, I think I'll just live in my house.

Agreed Bwana
I"ll ad antibiotics and advil

Lets not paint with too broad a brush here. No all shows are alike. Enough said to make my point I believe.

Not all shows being alike is a reasonable concept, who decides which shows are worthy of being considered as actual portrayals of hunting?

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Not all shows being alike is a reasonable concept, who decides which shows are worthy of being considered as actual portrayals of hunting?

Randall, one viewing of the shows that Dave produces will answer that question for you. They portray hunting in actual wild areas of Africa, not the high fenced RSA farms. Don't get me wrong, the high fenced RSA farm hunting has a place and I've done it several times. It's fun. But you'll not find Dave's show depicting hunters on those high fenced RSA farms trying to pass off the hunts as anything more than what they are.

Take for instance the lion hunts. Tracks Across Africa doesn't show some wonder boy (or girl) with their bow, breathlessly explaining how dangerous it was to shoot a pet cat. When you see a lion hunt on Tracks, or his other shows, you'll KNOW it's the real thing, being either a lengthy hunt playing the bait and strategy game, or actually stalking wild animals where there are no fences for miles and miles.

THAT, is an actual portrayal of hunting and it shows readily for anyone watching and paying attention.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Not all shows being alike is a reasonable concept, who decides which shows are worthy of being considered as actual portrayals of hunting?

Randall, one viewing of the shows that Dave produces will answer that question for you. They portray hunting in actual wild areas of Africa, not the high fenced RSA farms. Don't get me wrong, the high fenced RSA farm hunting has a place and I've done it several times. It's fun. But you'll not find Dave's show depicting hunters on those high fenced RSA farms trying to pass off the hunts as anything more than what they are.

Take for instance the lion hunts. Tracks Across Africa doesn't show some wonder boy (or girl) with their bow, breathlessly explaining how dangerous it was to shoot a pet cat. When you see a lion hunt on Tracks, or his other shows, you'll KNOW it's the real thing, being either a lengthy hunt playing the bait and strategy game, or actually stalking wild animals where there are no fences for miles and miles.

THAT, is an actual portrayal of hunting and it show readily for anyone watching and paying attention.

Totally agree. I have given up on most hunting shows for that reason. Even Petersen's showed a "Kalahari lion" a while back, and this after Mike Schoby opined about the "Seven Deadly Sins of Outdoor TV." I guess he forgot to mention canned lion hunts.

As others have said, many hunters really enjoy some of the current whoop and holler after sticking a deer from a tree stand to let it go bleed out. Look at the merchandise out the for Bone Collection, or Tiffany, or whatever. Those shows don't appeal to me at all. However, their target audience likely doesn't appreciate Dave's shows or UWS. They would likely wonder why Ivan and Tony talk "funny."
I honestly doubt Sportsman or Outdoor Channels would exist without these shows.

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:
As others have said, many hunters really enjoy some of the current whoop and holler after sticking a deer from a tree stand to let it go bleed out. Look at the merchandise out the for Bone Collection, or Tiffany, or whatever. Those shows don't appeal to me at all. However, their target audience likely doesn't appreciate Dave's shows or UWS. They would likely wonder why Ivan and Tony talk "funny."
I honestly doubt Sportsman or Outdoor Channels would exist without these shows.

Probably true Marcus. The whitetail shows, (and now pigs) seems to dominate the airtime. Probably because that's what the largest percentage of the audience is actively involved in and capable of participating in as far as hunting goes. I suspect the majority are whoop and holler types themselves as well.

I'll admit my tastes in hunting, and the shows I enjoy, has changed drastically over the past 10 years or so.

quote:

I'll admit my tastes in hunting, and the shows I enjoy, has changed drastically over the past 10 years or so.

One of the reasons I started this discussion, is because of what you stated above. I will never go to Africa, but, from back in the old days of The American Sportsman on ABC with Curt Gowdy, I enjoy hunting shows where actual hunting values without the High Fives are portrayed.

I simply believe that hunting needs to be portrayed in a better light than the whooping/high fiving, etc. that many of todays programs portray.

I guess I am a throwback, but I believe that hunters should show respect to the animals we kill, not act like aq high school kid celebrating a touchdown on Friday night.

Maybe or probably I am wrong, but even after 40+ years, I respect the animals I kill. I worry that people are losing that respect and are concentrating more on the competitive aspect that many folks have brought into hunting. Sorry folks, I just do not believe hunting is a competitive activity.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:
As others have said, many hunters really enjoy some of the current whoop and holler after sticking a deer from a tree stand to let it go bleed out. Look at the merchandise out the for Bone Collection, or Tiffany, or whatever. Those shows don't appeal to me at all. However, their target audience likely doesn't appreciate Dave's shows or UWS. They would likely wonder why Ivan and Tony talk "funny."
I honestly doubt Sportsman or Outdoor Channels would exist without these shows.

Probably true Marcus. The whitetail shows, (and now pigs) seems to dominate the airtime. Probably because that's what the largest percentage of the audience is actively involved in and capable of participating in as far as hunting goes. I suspect the majority are whoop and holler types themselves as well.

I'll admit my tastes in hunting, and the shows I enjoy, has changed drastically over the past 10 years or so.

Todd, my tastes have also changed. After only two PG hunts, I keep waiting to get back to the Dark Continent. I still love domestic hunting (Texas deer & pigs), but I lost the itch for expensive elk and mule deer in order to get back to Africa.

I hope to see you at DSC, and that goes for the rest of you.

CHC I watched the American Sportsman when I was a kid and it was a great show that helped create my passion for hunting.

I am sorry but the majority of hunting shows I see these days are garbage. They seem to pander to the reality tv show crowd and in general leave a foul taste in my mouth. For every quality show like the ones produced by Sports Afield and such, there are ten that just give me that 'trailer trash' feeling and which most certainly do not portray hunting in the light that I was raised to view it.

I do not receive the channels which have all of the hunting shows because I refuse to pay for a channel that airs hours and hours of garbage with the occasional half hour worth watching. Not a good bang for the buck.

I still enjoy watching the old Ken Wilson/Sportsmen on Film videos. Not only were they entertaining, but also educational. One can only assume the format was somewhat of a template for the Safari Classics shows and films we all seem to appreciate, not to exclude some of the other shows such as UWS.

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:
As others have said, many hunters really enjoy some of the current whoop and holler after sticking a deer from a tree stand to let it go bleed out. Look at the merchandise out the for Bone Collection, or Tiffany, or whatever. Those shows don't appeal to me at all. However, their target audience likely doesn't appreciate Dave's shows or UWS. They would likely wonder why Ivan and Tony talk "funny."
I honestly doubt Sportsman or Outdoor Channels would exist without these shows.

Probably true Marcus. The whitetail shows, (and now pigs) seems to dominate the airtime. Probably because that's what the largest percentage of the audience is actively involved in and capable of participating in as far as hunting goes. I suspect the majority are whoop and holler types themselves as well.

I'll admit my tastes in hunting, and the shows I enjoy, has changed drastically over the past 10 years or so.

Todd, my tastes have also changed. After only two PG hunts, I keep waiting to get back to the Dark Continent. I still love domestic hunting (Texas deer & pigs), but I lost the itch for expensive elk and mule deer in order to get back to Africa.

I hope to see you at DSC, and that goes for the rest of you.

Me too Marcus. The western hunts just don't hold much, if any, appeal for me right now. Largely because I hate the draw game. I did do a mule deer hunt this year but it was over at noon on the first day, so not much to it really.

I'd like to do some sheep or goat (Ibex) hunts soon, but I'm thinking more along the lines of Marco Polo instead of what's available in the US ... if you can draw a tag here! Maybe we're just hooked on the international travel aspect of it?

As far as the shows are concerned, I'd rather watch Shockey on an exotic sheep hunt in Mongolia than Lee and Tiffany hosting Pig Man on the back forty for a whitetail they've raised on the farm, taking trail cam pictures long enough to give the buck a name like "Freaknasty" or some such silliness. But, that big whitetail is a hunt the majority of U.S.A. hunters can dream about and have a possibility of achieving, while the Shockey hunt is just a dream period. Because of that, the shows will always be dominated by the "bubba' presentations. And when one of the "bubbas" finally makes it over to RSA and takes a "black maned lion" with his / her bow, they've just got to amaze us all about how it was contemplating killing the entire hunting party and stashing the bodies so that it could feed itself for the next week because even though they are real and efficient killers, they have to take advantage of every meal that presents itself in the "wilds of Africa"!

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

I'll admit my tastes in hunting, and the shows I enjoy, has changed drastically over the past 10 years or so.

One of the reasons I started this discussion, is because of what you stated above. I will never go to Africa, but, from back in the old days of The American Sportsman on ABC with Curt Gowdy, I enjoy hunting shows where actual hunting values without the High Fives are portrayed.

I simply believe that hunting needs to be portrayed in a better light than the whooping/high fiving, etc. that many of todays programs portray.

I guess I am a throwback, but I believe that hunters should show respect to the animals we kill, not act like aq high school kid celebrating a touchdown on Friday night.

Maybe or probably I am wrong, but even after 40+ years, I respect the animals I kill. I worry that people are losing that respect and are concentrating more on the competitive aspect that many folks have brought into hunting. Sorry folks, I just do not believe hunting is a competitive activity.

I agree with you entirely. The time for celebration is with a meal, a drink (alcoholic or not) over the campfire at the end of the day. I guess I'm old school.

The advent of cheap, high quality video cameras allows any slack-jawed yokel to be a hunting show star and producer. How these yo-yos get sponsorships is beyond me, but the magic of the marketplace is clearly at work. Perhaps it is that the most of the products advertised are to be found at Walmart rather than at Griffin & Howe. I would make it a point to avoid products supporting these kinds of shows, but then there is really no need for a serious hunter to consciously avoid buying a "Lee and Tiffany" rucksack, a Duck Dynasty-endorsed Mossberg shotgun, or a Chinese-made folding limbsaw with a "Bone Collector" logo, now is there?

The current fashion among many hunting show producers seems to be an attempt to out-Jesus one another, somehow translating the killing of a hapless whitetail yearling into a proselytising event for their particular flavor of fundamentalist religion. Obviously, the manufacturers and distributors of hunting/fighting knives with 10-inch blades, camo handles, and skull logos have found their marketing niche. I doubt Jesus ever anticipated quite this interpretation of his life when ministering to lepers or driving the money changers from the temple.

I'll admit to watching a few of these shows when things get really slow. It's a bit like the phenomenon of being unable to look away from a bad car wreck. But I always turn them off if someone else comes into the room out of fear of embarrassment should they somehow equate my tastes with those portrayed on TV.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
The advent of cheap, high quality video cameras allows any slack-jawed yokel to be a hunting show star and producer. How these yo-yos get sponsorships is beyond me, but the magic of the marketplace is clearly at work. Perhaps it is that the most of the products advertised are to be found at Walmart rather than at Griffin & Howe. I would make it a point to avoid products supporting these kinds of shows, but then there is really no need for a serious hunter to consciously avoid buying a "Lee and Tiffany" rucksack, a Duck Dynasty-endorsed Mossberg shotgun, or a Chinese-made folding limbsaw with a "Bone Collector" logo, now is there?

The current fashion among many hunting show producers seems to be an attempt to out-Jesus one another, somehow translating the killing of a hapless whitetail yearling into a proselytising event for their particular flavor of fundamentalist religion. Obviously, the manufacturers and distributors of hunting/fighting knives with 10-inch blades, camo handles, and skull logos have found their marketing niche. I doubt Jesus ever anticipated quite this interpretation of his life when ministering to lepers or driving the money changers from the temple.

I'll admit to watching a few of these shows when things get really slow. It's a bit like the phenomenon of being unable to look away from a bad car wreck. But I always turn them off if someone else comes into the room out of fear of embarrassment should they somehow equate my tastes with those portrayed on TV.

I don't watch hunting shows but very, very seldom. If I did, I would like the Old classics and dislike the "whoop and holler" as described here. But as far as hunters "getting along":If one wants the diversity of opportunity that comes from the free market, one must accept the conflict that comes with and in fact prospers it. The human experience is mostly about conflict and success is about conflict resolved for the "better."
Freedom; the most used and least understood word, is about choosing to live within the bounds of responsibility thus creating the definition of "better." Some are better at it than others is my observation.

Modern marketing knows what the shows target demo finds appealing and aims for that audience.
Along the way so many of us have gotten tired of trying to fight through these shows to find something appealing and have given up on the process. For me this crosses over into the gun magazine as well. I have a hard time enjoying these magazines the way I once did.
Part of the reason maybe when I was a kid in the barber shop reading a magazine or watching American Sportsman you could only dream of going to these places. The opportunities for the masses to go out of state or out of country were limited. That has changed so much now as more people can afford to do these hunts that only a few could afford. Those writers of days gone by were our experts we followed. Now so many of us have actual experience that the media "experts " of today will always be judged differently. We have seen behind the curtain and some of this bravado just doesn't carry over well anymore. The content seemed more important than what product was being sold. The product didn't get in the way of the content.
Our society seems to have so many that need to be seen. Negative or positive doesn't matter in how they are seen. So for me I just don't try and fight through much of it anymore for my leisure time which is limited.
It's funny how my interests have changed. I can no longer watch a guy hunt that has little skills in the field. The camera work is incredible but I can't watch a guy that has paid good money to hunt that looks awkward out chasing game. You can tell he is really a novice hunter with a $25,000.00 gun on a $25,000.00 hunt. His only reason he is on tv is that he has $50,000 dollars to spend. But the marketing studies show that the demographic of these guys with $50,000.00 to spend is attractive to advertisers. So many of us grew up hunting but we have allot of guys out there that started hunting later in life and these guys just are not fun for me to watch. Especially some of these hosts these days. I grew up in a day when you had a gun behind the seat of your truck as you jumped some ducks on the way to school and you cleaned the ducks in the school parking lot. I have been to places that I could only dream of while watching American Sportsman as a kid. Those early VHS hunting tapes kept the fire lit but I need more substance now since I have seen behind the curtain on what works and what doesn't. The good ol' boy redneck guy and good ol'boy country club dude just doesn't get it done for me these days.

If anything, hunting has become more socially accepted with the general public since the popularity of hunting shows. The shift has been remarkable. Internet forums on the other hand have become the favourite place for hunters to bitch and whine about other hunters. I'm certain that's helping the future of hunting a lot.

Probably I should watch one or two of these shows to be able to participate here. I can remember shows of old that featured such as Phil Harris bird hunting and such activities. Totally enjoyable. I don't really understand many on here and their views of hunting/animals as something mythical. To me animals are just that animals. They hold no particular reverence for me and when I kill one I feel no remorse only pleasure at having succeeded in the activity I set out to do. I have very poor views of supposedly 'reality TV' in general. I have no desire to follow the lives of any housewives anywhere and I have read in history of the Ming Dynasty but never heard of the 'Duck Dynasty' till the recent rhubarb came about.Is hunting dying a slow death,I believe so. It is a natural thing. It costs more in actual dollar cost and more prominently in time costs. Single people are really not interested in it and married people are too concerned with supporting the family to participate. In Africa the prices are spiraling and game is reduced and the political situation has more or less doomed it in some areas. Can we as participants change the more or less natural course of human nature - it's doubtful since we cannot even keep our own country from becoming a socialist state. People like free better than anything else and whatever it is hunting ain't free. Just the deranged ramblings of one old man so now have at it.

As a Heretic, I have to say that Internet forums are an absolute blessing to the future of hunting. They enable each of us to argue about "What Hunting is and what it should be going forward." If you don't care, don't argue.

If forums did not exist, we would be much more susceptible to having that big question decided by the marketing guys alone. If you don't believe how powerful these marketing guys are in defining "Hunting", I suggest those of you over 40 think back to when you got started versus today. Consider the highly profitable marketing of camouflage. A person getting into hunting tomorrow would believe that camouflage is a critical component of all hunting, even in Africa. And yet, those of us who remember shooting pheasants in our letterman jackets after school know different. In fact a hunter starting today would shake his head at all the turkeys, deer, sheep, ducks, etc. that have been killed without the help of the absolutely critical camouflage.

That's how marketing can change the face of hunting.

We are all fortunate to be able to respond to this endless marketing onslaught in this and other forums.
You will not get rid of American hunting shows because they sell product that you buy or at least a lot of hunters buy. If you don't like the majority of shows, then guess what? You are not a member of the majority of hunters in the USA. Sorry buddy, but you are a minority now. You can just take it, or you can fight.