The difference being is that I ihavent ever heard of individuals using anything other than the 50 BMG to sit in one place and keep taking potshots at extreme ranges.

So if you do hear of people using the 30/378 and 338/378 in the above manner, would then support those calibres not being allowed for hunting.

Mike

That's hunting! I'm with Ray & Co., sniping isn't.

So do you think "sniping" of amimals should be allowed?

I think if you were to write out the reasons you think a 50 BMG should not be allowed for hunting then I think you will find you just took out a lot of rifle/calibre combinations.

Mike

So following with the mentality that a firearm people use in an irresponsible manner should be banned? Should we then ban the 30-30, how many people drive around in their trucks and shoot deer irresponsible at 200 yds from the car? What about the 22lr how many people have shot a deer or a pig with that?
Ethics are one thing, and the guys shooting at animals, at over a 1000 yds is reprehensible. But people who use a firearm to responsibly take animals, should still be allowed to choose their caliber and the distance they want to shoot at.
Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean everybody else hates it also.

It is apparent that you do not want to apply the same rules to the 30/378 and 338/378.

Again, if you hear of people taking pot shots at long range with a 30/378 or 338/378 do you think those calibres should not be allowed for hunting use.

Given the ballistics of those two calibres and the fact that both can be purchased in the relatively cheap Wby Synthetic I would venture more pot shots are taken with those two calibres than the 50 BMG.

Do you realise that your singling out the 50 BMG because of hunting problems which supposedly are limited to a few people is the identical logic that was behind Australia's gun laws.

And, now that the 50 BMG is banned from hunting what will your views be if these same pot shotters do turn to the 30 or 338/378 or the cheap Sako TRG in 338 Lapua.

Mike

As for the sniping of animals, isn't all hunting sniping? i know of no hunting or hunter who makes his presence known to his prey during the hunt or before he kills it!!

definition of sniping (To shoot at individuals from a concealed place)

Thank you mike375, that is an excellent argument!!

I won't say ID doesn't have the right to ban it, but I will say I'll probably live to see at least some of you wish you hadn't.
You take some guys doing something stupid and cruel and criminal, because they are stupid and crueland criminal, and correlate them with a tool they are usin, then ban that tool for that purpose, and all you've done is set a legal precedent.
Those idiots will be out their with 34"bbl CheyTac's or 338 Lapua's or whatever they think is the next best thing to the BMG. Then what? How many idiots go blazing away every fall at whitetail with their whatever-happens-to-be-in-the-closet noisemaker? Will you tell me that the amount of game lost (or made to suffer, however you like to quantify it) by the BMG is worth setting foot on that slope?
As for a better solution (someone asked, right?), shame those pieces of shit. Have massive education campaigns alerting the community to the problem of bad hunting - with any cartridge - and rouse up interest in long-range blowing up of things inanimate as a safe and fun alternative to being a turd.
But above all, realize this sort of person will not be legislated away.

.

Alf,

That is all and well but the "banners" on this thread do not have "being a military calibre" as their basis.

Re read the comments on Idaho and I think you will agree they definitely pick up the 30/378, 338 Lapua and 338/378 and in reality also pick up scope sighted 300 Winchesters etc.

In fact the basis of their argument, that is reckless pot shotting at animals, takes in about all calibres.

Mike

Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws---Plato

If folks wish to shoot their 50BMG rifles at elk, they need to go to one of the guarrenteed elk hunt ranches. For around $6000, they can fire at a bull, then go track it behind the fence until they collect their quarry!!!
Jeff in Texas

.

My apologies to all for my part in hijacking this thread. I thank you for the reminder that this was way off the origional question.

(Reply not specifically directed to M1Tanker.)

Atkinson,

I agree with you, it's a military round and I don't see it as sporting to wander into the realm of military ordnance to hunt animals with. How about a 20mm round? Where would it stop?

I think sporting rifles should be limited to sporting cartridges. Plenty powerful rounds exist to make it fun and give you the whallop you need to stop a dangerous animal effectively and humanely.

God old Chuck

The man with one facial expresion.

The talking beard.



Cheers,



Andr�

I am starting to think you cant read very well. Nowhere has anyone even remotely stated that there was any support or suggestion about anything the 50 except yourself.

No, it is you who are having the reading the problems.

My question to you again is that if you hear of similar problems with the 30/378 or 338/378 will you support a ban on those calibres for hunting.

No offence meant, but your words I also repeatedly mentioned that the whole reason for the 50 is because the problem is about a very specific caliber that was causing great harm. FACT FACT FACT. are identical in principle to what was said by politicians and anti gun groups in Australia with regard to the semi auto.

As soon as you address a specific gun or calibre you hit the slippery slope. The facts are that if some people start taking pot shots at long distance with a 30/378 or 338/378 you have set the scene for those calibres to be banned for hunting.

Mike

50 Peackeeper: Ed Brown Action Test Gun. 88% of a 50 BMG in a 13-14 pound gun.


http://www.sskindustries.com/50cal.htm

RAC,

They should be banned from hunting. Actually I think RIP has a 50 PeaceKeeper.

Also I am still waiting for M1Tanker to answer the question.....If you hear about problems with 30/378 and 338/378 then will you support a ban on those calibres for hunting. He is too fucking scared to answer. He and his followers feel safe on the "ban 50 BMG" but the 30/378 and 338/378.....that would be touchy.

I just posted this on the Political Forum.

Go to the thread on Africa Forum....50 BMG in Africa...

Are these people part of the anti gunners or just fucking idiots.

Although none of this suprises me......when our gun laws were coming the people form Safari International supported the banning of semi autos.

I have zero interest in semi autos or autos but I know that once you "support banning a specific rifle/calibre" then your argument can be turned against you.

If only the shooters had the same dedication etc of the antis.

It just fucking annoys me so much that the ememy is in our own camp.

And fucking none of them can work out the problem that occurs when "Joe Fuckwit" turns to a rifle/calibre that is not banned. That after all is what gun laws about. Both the makers of the laws and the antis already know they don't work and as such they move to the next stage.

Mike

BFaucett

Where is Chuck we NEED him again

Cheers,

Andr�

Being from Idaho myself and having seen firsthand the reasoning for baniing the 50 BMG for hunt I have to agree with Ray on this one. There is no law against owning one. Just for using it for hunting.

Some of English friends could ebalorate on that....and I am sure we will not befar behind in Australia.


I know at one point in time there was an attempt being made to differentiate between the 50 BMG and the legitimate 50 cal sporting rounds. I am not sure of what the outcome was.

So you don't give a fuck.

The big reason that ID adopted the no 50 BMG rule was based on some northern ID boys mounting Barret M82's on the hoods of their rigs in a mount they whipped together and taking pot shots at elk at 1000yd plus distances. This resorted in far more elk injured/gutshot than taken. It was a cruel death for the elk.

Must of never ever happened with other calibres. But if it does happen with other calibres then.........

Two so called hunters in the Ashton, ID area (my home territory) tried the same thing. I saw first hand 3 elk that were put down by hunters to end their misery and turned over to the Fish & Game. No animal deserves that kind of torture. I hate to see that kind of draconian action be taken but I dont know that there were many alternatives.

On that basis all calibres/rifles should be banned.

You got to be an anti that was hoping (and with some success) to get a following from many on the Afrcian forum that often love to jump this way.

Mike

Calling me an antigunner is absolutely rediculous. Dont let your short temper get away from you and make un-true statements when you obviously have no way of knowing anything about me. I donate a sizable chunk of my salary each month to the NRA because I stand firm against the anti's. And on an Army SGT pay and with a family that can be tough at times. I stand behind my gun rights with every ounce of my being and will defend those rights for myself and my country men to my last breath. So watch what you say.

I am against ALL types of GUN CONTROL. Is that clear enough to you? If you had any comprehension of what the whole point of the 50/elk ban was about you would have a different opinion. It had absolutely nothing to do with gun control. If you even think for a second that the residents of Idaho would allow a law to pass that even hinted of gun control then you had better study up on Idaho some more. I cant suport this: but I would bet that Idaho is in the top 5 for gun ownership per person in the country. And the population of the state overwhelmingly supported this law. And for the record: if it had of been the 30/378 etc.. < !--color--> IN THE EXACT SAME CIRCUMSTANCES AS THE IDAHO SITUATION I WOULD FEEL THE SAME WAY. < !--color--> Let me say that agin for you: < !--color--> THE EXACT SAME CIRCUMSTANCES ONLY < !--color--> I have tried to explain the situation but you refuse to grasp it. When the whole thing was being debated whether to ban it or not I was dead against it until I knew the whole situation and had studied it long and hard. Making the decision to support that particular action was very tough for me. It went against all I fought for and believe in. But it was the right thing to do < !--color--> IN THAT SPECIFIC INSTANCE < !--color-->

I know I am not the best at putting my thoughts into words and that may be part of the whole miscommunication going on here. And I most defiantely sympathize with your plight in Australia. It makes me angry what happened to you there.

if it had of been the 30/378 etc.. IN THE EXACT SAME CIRCUMSTANCES AS THE IDAHO SITUATION I WOULD FEEL THE SAME WAY.

And therein lies the problem.

Where you side with the antis is that you are calibre/gun minded. Of course you are not alone on the gun side. In fact you are in the majority as these threads demonstrate.

Even if you donated your whole income each year to the NRA you would still be siding with the antis and as an endorsment. Your endorsement is simple.....It is the gun/calibre.

Mike

I just wanted to add the reply I wrote to Mike375 in the political forum.



I am going to pop in here. I am the one who has Mike375 so worked up. I believe that were I in his country with their idiotic gun laws I would feel the same way he does. He is right in the sense that once they antis get their toe in the door it is too late. I dont fully understand the extent of gun ownership laws in Australia. The way I understand it is that basically all guns were forced to be turned in and destroyed and it is extremely difficult to own guns there now. I cant imagine having to give up my guns. It would kill me. And they would never get them. I would make them disappear. What happened to Australia was wrong.



While Mike375 and I disagree on the mentioned incident I completely concur with him in his feelings.



I just wanted to add my 2 cents. < !--color-->

And I posted this on the Political forum.

The way I understand it is that basically all guns were forced to be turned in and destroyed and it is extremely difficult to own guns there now

That is not correct. Semi autos were the guns in question. I might also add that many shooters in Australia supported the ban and in particular for the SKS and Mini 14 Ruger type gun. Members of shotgun clubs and Safari International were strong in ther support for the ban.

Of course anyone who thinks about things will know that a shooting will happen with a bolt action or lever action and you can work out what happens next. In fact the ban on semi autos is more likely to now make that happen. Remember that Joe Fuckwith got heaps of cash for his semi auto and was left with his bolt actions. A 303 with 10 shot magazine and FMJ ammo will do the job as will the M96s in 6.5 X 55.

I can't find the words to express the lack of interest that I have in semi auto or 50 BMG rifles. But it would be worthwhile for shooters to think in terms that these guns are the first line of defence against the antis.

That is why I have repeatedly said that the reasons behind the ban of the 50 BMG must at some time come into play for the 30/378s etc. Those shooters who support the ban on the 50 BMG for hunting will be a burden when that debate starts....as it surely will do one day. Take your own case. If some people start pot shotting around with a 30/378 (or 7mm Rem) and I play the part of an anti...you will have to agree with the banning of those calibres for hunting.....if you are a 6 times better debater than me I will still have you on toast.

Mike

OK; Please go back and read my post about Contra Costa County banning 50's, because terrorists might use them against refinieries. Can we say,
"Total fucking bullshit?"

It's a fucking slippery slope, and everytime you support the antis, we get fucked, regardless of caliber, or rationale.

Why the fuck aren't we banning 747's, or 727's? They have killed WAY more people then legally owned 50s...
s

.

I would have thought that military FMJ ammo would be illegal for elk no matter what rifle it was fired from.

Alf,

I think you need to address your last posting to Socrates

I don't get this....50 guys (appr.) doing this. So why not prosecute those idiots?

Surely they broke some law, regardless of caliber? Like using FMJ ammo on game animals, for example?

This isn't a caliber problem, it's a bonehead problem. These guys will watch a few more History Channel shows on the 338 Lapua, and then you'll have your next problem.

I would think that a far wiser approach would have been to outlaw those types of irresponsible shots (long range, etc).

Firstly, last time I checked we are not doing an animal any favours regardless of what we kill it with.

So lets have no more of this fairness to the fucking animal horseshit.



When the animals pass a vote against the 50BMG upsetting them in greater fashion than a 30-378 wby I will take notice and reconsider how I end their lives.



If they did vote I'm sure the only sporting approach would be to 'take them by bare hands'.



Secondly the public does not give a rats ass about what we use unless it is told to give a rats ass.

And the people telling it are the government through pressure from the antis.



What most gunowners do not realise is that the public and the Antis do not even have the expertise to tell between one calibre and another.



They don't care about our 'sporting justifications' and 'ethical rationales'. These are our areas of interest, not their's.

Their area of interest is to see "all guns and weapons as evil".





They put any blind pressure they can on gunowners through the government.



And then let us fall over each other, dividing and choosing which amongst our number are 'unsporting', 'un ethical','inhumane' or whatever, and leaving the rest to the mercy of the wolves.



They are happy since as long as they get some sort of ban, and we do the hard work for them every fucking time.



I don't care how prickly or difficult to defend some of my gunowner brethren may be, I will not let them fall through impunity to evil people on the basis of my own contrived sporting notions.



This is not an suitable attitude for cowardly chickenshits to follow of course.





Karl.

The Idaho 50 cal ban was put in place approximately 10 years ago!!! < !--color--> Not something new here. I have not heard of even a similar incident since then. It worked. Period.



The law was passed by the sportmen of one of the most pro gun states in the country. We all realized something had to be done to prevent future incidents. Moving the rifle from a mount on the hood to a bipod or tripod on the ground (which some had moved to when this became an issue, and were doing the same thing) would have allowed the problem to persist. In the debates some suggested banning bipods/tripods. That was a worse choice since the bipod is a good tool for hunting. It fixed the problem.



I was there. Ray was there. A couple of you may have been but have not spoken up. The rest of you were not. You are making assumptions based on having only a tiny piece of information.



Like it, love, hate it. It doesnt matter. The law worked and no one has tried to copy cat the elk hunting stunt since. If they have it has been done very quietly and they arent leaving 10-20 wounded elk from a single herd in a single shooting session. Times that by one or two hundred shooters and you see this was no small problem.



It is in the past and problem solved. Ray would know better tha I but I have never heard of anyone feeling that their 30/378 etc.. were next for being banned. Those calibers simply do not inspire boneheads to be stupid like the 50 does.



As far as I am concerned the case is closed. You aint gotta like it but if you dont just dont plan on hunting in Idaho.

Good Grief

Isn't this horse dead yet?