Polish hunter sues after failing to find elephant
http://af.reuters.com/

Wed Feb 2, 2011 3:26pm GMT

WARSAW (Reuters) - A Polish hunter who dreamt of shooting an elephant has
sued a German-based travel company after it sent him to a part of Africa
where he said there were no elephants to be found, a newspaper reported
Wednesday.

The company, Jaworski Jagdreisen, which organises hunting expeditions,
insists there are elephants in the area of Zimbabwe it sent the hunter,
identified only as Waldemar I, the Rzeczpospolita daily newspaper said.

"From what I know, (the hunter) should have seen elephant excrement there,"
it quoted the company owner as saying.

Even though the company organised a second trip for the luckless hunter
during which he managed to kill a male elephant, the man still filed for
damages worth $130,000 over his first expedition.

A court is due to rule on his claim on February 15, the paper said.

Sounds like he should never go sheep hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Sounds like he should never go sheep hunting.

Or snipe hunting.

anyone heard from llamapacker?

Good Gawd, that's 3/4s the problem today. Don't get what ya want....sue. Sweet jesus...


maddog

. . . Buzz, I hope you are reading this . . . if our next hunt does not pan out, well get ready to write me a check . . .

$130,000 in damages??? WTH????

Sounds like a polack joke I heard before.

i never realized that seeing elephant shit equated to success. also never realized that non- canned hunts should come with a guarantee of success. guess they do thing differently in Poland.

If this guy ever wants to "hunt" a lion, sounds like he might be interested in South Africa.

The agent should counter sue, since the hunter's mama clearly failed to tattoo a warning label on his forehead.

A guy I used to hunt with would try to pull crap like that.Was threatening to sue a PH because he didn't put him on a 60+" Kudu.

Well there goes the daily rates again it needs to up so that Outfitters have funds to counter things like this, what is the world coming too.

quote:

Originally posted by Mad Dog:
Good Gawd, that's 3/4s the problem today. Don't get what ya want....sue. Sweet jesus...


maddog

I wanted a sweet young thing last night, who do I sue?

Mike, a word of caution here, doesn't Buzz carry a big stick and aren't there carrion disposal units out there. Just thinking about big cheques.

Chaps,

If you had found out that this unfortunate had been swindled by some nefarious South Africa operating in Zim then surely it would be a different matter?

Be honest just consider you having saved up your hard earned cash only to be shown some sporadic spoor of your quarry?

There is much fraud out there and this is one way to combat it.

quote:

There is much fraud out there

I hate to make a judgement here about what is actually going on behind the short summary provided by the story. If he merely had a bad hunt and did not get his bull, then tough nookies.

But let's look at another scenario. Let's say an outfitter books a fellow for an elephant hunt with PH XXX. The hunter arrives to take part in the hunt and because of being overbooked and having good luck, the PH is all out of quota. So he spends a week driving the client around in areas where elephant had been a couple of months ago, as is indicated by the sign. But there is no elephant there now. If he does actually stumble upon an elephant he gives the client all sorts of reasons as to why the animal is not a shooter.

Does this client, if he figures out what is going on, have some sort of legitimate grievance?

If you don't think this has happened, and continues to happen, you are being naive.I suspect with elephant,leopard, and lion it would be more common. But also to a lessor degree buffalo and some of the plains game as well. In Namibia, with the leopard quota being in such a flux two years ago, I suspect their were several PH's caught in such a quandry.Some cancelled their hunts when it became evident they were short on quota, but others....

Fairgame-You beat me to the punch but I think we are seeing the same situation,eh?

I agree... just "maybe" he has a legitimate
case. Need to hear more about it.. from both sides.

To move on, what would you do if you had felt that you had been sold an expensive walk in the park?

There are some who could afford to sweep it under the carpet but there are many who leave Africa disillusioned and disenchanted. These chaps should seek compensation and give these fraudsters a good financial hiding.

Anybody know what area/concession the initial hunt occured in? This article says the company in Zim was "Mopani Safaris".

http://www.thenews.pl/national...to-bag-elephant.html

It also says he is looking for $8000 Euros in compensation, not $130K USD as other articles state. Somebody's off here...

...hm that sounds like Alex Kirkman (Mopani Safaris). He used to hunt Doma Safari Area up till 2009 but left the place in 2010...

I almost had sex with Selma Hayak last night. I had a hard-on but couldn't find her. Do I sue her or her agent?

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I almost had sex with Selma Hayak last night. I had a hard-on but couldn't find her. Do I sue her or her agent?

Rich

Why don't you sue your optician

quote:

I had a hard-on

now we know your lying.

But I really wanted to...

That's all that matters in this country anymore.
Whiners: but I really wanted to.

Rich

You two aren't cutting an old man much slack.

With the amount of information available at your finger tips these days, there is little excuse for not knowing your game, game lands, outfitter and probability of success before you ever board the plane. 10 or 15 years ago, that wasn't necessarily the case. Today, consumer ignorance is self imposed only.

I am not saying this guy wasn't swindled, but chances are, he didn't do enough to prevent that from happening beforehand.

parallel question. outfitter X in country Y wants to sells three 21 day safaris to clients, all of whom make it crystal clear that lion is their primary target. outfitter X only has 2 lion on quota. success rate in his area is about 50%. should he only sell 2 hunts in case both hunters are successful? is it unethical to sell the third hunt since chances are the third hunter will have a chance at a lion( remember success rate is 50%). secondary question- if outfitter sells all 3 hunts and the first 2 hunters are successful, should the third hunter have any recourse for compensation? serious food for thought since i have a feeling this happens not infrequently.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
parallel question. outfitter X in country Y wants to sells three 21 day safaris to clients, all of whom make it crystal clear that lion is their primary target. outfitter X only has 2 lion on quota. success rate in his area is about 50%. should he only sell 2 hunts in case both hunters are successful? is it unethical to sell the third hunt since chances are the third hunter will have a chance at a lion( remember success rate is 50%). secondary question- if outfitter sells all 3 hunts and the first 2 hunters are successful, should the third hunter have any recourse for compensation? serious food for thought since i have a feeling this happens not infrequently.

Difficult to prove but I assure you it does.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
parallel question. outfitter X in country Y wants to sells three 21 day safaris to clients, all of whom make it crystal clear that lion is their primary target. outfitter X only has 2 lion on quota. success rate in his area is about 50%. should he only sell 2 hunts in case both hunters are successful? is it unethical to sell the third hunt since chances are the third hunter will have a chance at a lion( remember success rate is 50%). secondary question- if outfitter sells all 3 hunts and the first 2 hunters are successful, should the third hunter have any recourse for compensation? serious food for thought since i have a feeling this happens not infrequently.

Ethically, outfitter sells two hunts because he has two lions on quota. If one of the hunters does not shoot a lion, then he sells a discounted hunt for the end of the season to try and fill the quota. The PH get's his daily rate regardless of if a lion is shot. I'm sure another hunter later in the season would also be more than happy to take advantage of an unfilled lion tag should there be no extra time at the end of the season to schedule another hunt.

Sevens:

"Ethically, outfitter sells two hunts because he has two lions on quota. If one of the hunters does not shoot a lion, then he sells a discounted hunt for the end of the season to try and fill the quota. The PH get's his daily rate regardless of if a lion is shot. I'm sure another hunter later in the season would also be more than happy to take advantage of an unfilled lion tag should there be no extra time at the end of the season to schedule another hunt".


+1

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
parallel question. outfitter X in country Y wants to sells three 21 day safaris to clients, all of whom make it crystal clear that lion is their primary target. outfitter X only has 2 lion on quota. success rate in his area is about 50%. should he only sell 2 hunts in case both hunters are successful? is it unethical to sell the third hunt since chances are the third hunter will have a chance at a lion( remember success rate is 50%). secondary question- if outfitter sells all 3 hunts and the first 2 hunters are successful, should the third hunter have any recourse for compensation? serious food for thought since i have a feeling this happens not infrequently.

Difficult to prove but I assure you it does.

In my book, selling something you don't have is tantamount to FRAUD !
Unfortunately there is no shortage of fraudsters in this line of business.

fujotupu,

Agree with both statements. An outfitter or agent committing such a crimes should be blacklisted and face the long arm of the law.

I know that this absolutely happened in TZ.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
The agent should counter sue, since the hunter's mama clearly failed to tattoo a warning label on his forehead.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
In my book, selling something you don't have is tantamount to FRAUD !
Unfortunately there is no shortage of fraudsters in this line of business.

This is called hunting not shooting critters in a pen. No guaranteed critters in a fair hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
In my book, selling something you don't have is tantamount to FRAUD !
Unfortunately there is no shortage of fraudsters in this line of business.

This is called hunting not shooting critters in a pen. No guaranteed critters in a fair hunt.

For sake of argument reference is being made to the 2 Lions on quota a s posted as an example by JDollar:

If you have 2 on quota how can you sell 3 ?

What has it to do with fair hunting ?

Agreed that if one hunter fails to score on one of the Lions in question it is still alive and well.
The quota has not been affected and the same Lion can be sold for a second time after the hunt (not before - unless it has been planned that the client will not be given the opportunity of shooting a Lion = fraud?).

Kindly avail us on the scenario when the two animals on quota have been shot; what is client n.3 going to shoot?
Seems to me he will be given a whole lot of BS reasons preventing him from shooting that 3rd and non-existent Lion and in my books he's been taken for a smooth ride!

Kindly avail us on the scenario when the two animals on quota have been shot; what is client n.3 going to shoot?
[/QUOTE]

Ugh...The Outfitter??? Just Sayin...

Jeff

In Ohio, if an animal isn't listed as a game animal it can be shot. An elk that probably wandered up from Kentucky was recently shot here; no special tag required. This opens up many opportunities for me. I can have as many elephant and lion on quota as I like.

The opportunity is clearly there for me to offer lion and elephant hunts. I could offer 14 day or even 21 day hunts for much less money that it would take to do the "same" hunt in Zimbabwe. We would look hard for elephant and lion and I would carry a big gun. If the client didn't get an elephant; well, that's just hunting and since I would work hard, I should get a tip.

If there is any interest, please let me know and I'll post more details...

I couldn't imagine I would be that impressed to do an Elephant Safari and not even see spoor of one.