Ivan, I know this is off subject, but today's fine assortment of buff bullets are truly great. Are they too tough for broadside lion?

I have shot several lions with the Barnes X, and the furthest one went about 7 yards before dying.

I wasn't there on the buffalo portion, but I was along on the first half of Bill Jones' ".700 safari," for elephant (multiple tuskless plus bull). Bill handles that big rifle exceptionally well, I was really impressed by his ability to use the second barrel quickly when needed. (Yes, even with a .700, you might need a second shot!) But the rifle is very heavy, and the recoil is . . . interesting. Bill was up at my place yesterday and today and "we" shot the .700 again. "We" is in quotes because I took pictures. I've shot it. 'Nuff said.

i second that craig , bill does shoot that heavy beast very well. Its a kicker for sure ,interesting to shoot once ...twice ...not so sure

I do think that, to a certain degree, buffalo are subject to the "shock" effect of higher velocity bullets (no, I'm not endorsing the 257 Wby!). Saeed has shot quite a few with his 375 bore using monolithic softs at 2700-2800fps and I believe he will probably confirm that they work at least as well, if not better, as low velocity big bores.

As for solids on buffalo, I think they are best reserved for for followups. Placed well, they will work fine. Most blood exchange takes place in the lower lungs (in people too). A solid placed too high on a buffalo will not do too much damage and may well be the beginning of an "adventure". This is expecially true on frontal shots where only one lung may be hit. Buffalo can go a long, long way with a small hole through the upper lung(s).

quote:

Originally posted by brair:
I am only an armchair DG hunter but I have read a lot of the greats' books.

If my memory is correct, was it not standard procedure to shoot DG into the shoulder as a protection against charges for the hunter?I also thought heart, lung shots were meant more for plains games.

I hope this is taken as a genuine question as that is the way it is meant.

Regards,
brair

Heart & lung shots offer the best probability of a kill and a short track. On most animals, if you have the horsepower, you can shoot through the bone leading to the shoulder into the heart and lungs. If you hit that shot, you get instant down and bleed out.

There are varying opinions on the big buff, but there seems to be agreement that taking a shot above the heart, through the lungs, and taking out the large arteries tends to quiet him down pretty quick. There seems to be little disagreement on CNS shots.

John

with only 3 buff under my belt, Why would you want to drop them on the first shot. Following up on them is really when the exciting part starts

What an impressive gun. I remember handling a 700 cal double rifle several years ago in Reno, at SCI. I think it weihted in around 19 to 21 lb range. I would not even want to carry the dang thing very far. I guess buying ammo at the local Wal Mart is not much of an option either.

h kittle

I remember Bill Felstien Bringing the very first .700NE that H&H ever built on an ele hunt in Chirisa SA. The bull absorbed the first 4 bullets in the head without much effect. He was definately a little 'disorientated' but certainly not 'knocked out'...and buff seem to take a fair bit more killing than ele...

Rip- an opening for the .800 AR buffalo swatter!!!

Hmm I remember when Bill Felstien brought the very first .700 NE that H&H ever built to africa- Hunting in Chirisa SA. Took an elephant bull...after considerable effort. Bull took 4 .700 bullets to the head and was definately a little concussed but surely wasn't 'knocked out'. And yes, in general buff take a bit more 'killing' than ele....

Rip where the .800 AR buffalo gun?

You surely were dropping the hammer of Thor on those animals.Just out of curiousity,what kind of penetration were you getting and whar weight of bullets?

Thanks in advance,
brair

Here are a few photos of our .700 NE.
We built it on a single shot 50BMG action, and named it in honor of my long time friend and PH, Roy Vincent.

Stocked in the style of the A-Square Coil Chunk.
Appropriate here!

quote:

with only 3 buff under my belt, Why would you want to drop them on the first shot. Following up on them is really when the exciting part starts

For the purpose of humanely and quickly dispatching the quarry a first shot kill should always be priority #1

Admittedly, going in after wounded Buffalo is a rush. However, after each time I've done it, I would ponder when will it be my turn to get stomped!

"Wanting" to chase after wounded DG animals is a death-wish in the making. Ask any experienced PH, or hunter on this forum if they enjoy going after wounded DG and I'll bet the answer is a resounding NO!

For the same reason you would hope to knock-out Brock Lessnar in the first seconds of the first round of a UFC fight....for the same reason that you hope that close-air support hits true with the JDAMs and kills all of the enemy, etc., etc., etc. After a short time the odds will catch up with you and you will get hammered!

Call me a wuss, but a first shot kill is the most ethical and desireable in my book!

AND circling back to the thread....A .700 is a pretty good bet that this will be the case.

JW

Jeff,
did'nt you roll a buff with one shot from that 600 double of yours?

Sure did....just before he fell over! That critter was OoooLD!!!

JW