quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
Policemen, firemen, teachers may not get "rich" but their pensions are not too bad. Say a husband & wife teach and retire with their SS and Public Pension about $100,000 a year.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Most of us couldn't make ends meet if we worked 130-150 days a year either.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
This keeps coming up any the guys who are posting it are either dishonest, ignorant or just plain stupid.

quote:

Originally posted by tygersman:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Most of us couldn't make ends meet if we worked 130-150 days a year either.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
This keeps coming up any the guys who are posting it are either dishonest, ignorant or just plain stupid.

No brother - we're the ones who have to do the math daily. The first 130-150 days of the year barely pay my work related expenses. It's the rest of the year that feed my kids and my obsessions.

quote:

376 steyr
one of us
Posted 07 December 2012 03:41Hide Post
If this salary is figured in U.S. dollars then I would think they are doing pretty well in "Zimbabwe." Neil Bortz(sp) the talk show host bought a one trillion dollar Zimbabwe bill for a little over $500 U.S.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by tygersman:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Most of us couldn't make ends meet if we worked 130-150 days a year either.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
This keeps coming up any the guys who are posting it are either dishonest, ignorant or just plain stupid.

No brother - we're the ones who have to do the math daily. The first 130-150 days of the year barely pay my work related expenses. It's the rest of the year that feed my kids and my obsessions.

You are totally missing the point: the 130 days a PH works are not you standard 8 hour workday. How many people here in the spend 3,000 hours(130 days at 24 hours a day) away from home for their job?

Answer: not many.

It just seems some of you guys enjoy ignoring the facts.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:


If I charged the PH my hourly rate for the time he had wasted dragging me around the African bush, he will be working for the rest of his life to pay me back!
"

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Everyone here seems to be feeling sorry for the poor PH who is not being paid enough!

What a bloody JOKE!

OK, he warks hard for what little money is being PAID to do.

What about the client?

He paid his money, and wanted to have a good hunt and enjoy himself for 8 hours a day.

Instead he might get taken out of the camp at 3 in the morning, and have to endure a miserable hot day, no food, the water had run out, and walk for 30 miles back to teh truck!

To get driven on some of the worst roads on this earth, and not get back to camp until 11 at night!

That is a 20 hour day in my book!

Do we ask for compensation?

Of course we don't.

If I charged the PH my hourly rate for the time he had wasted dragging me around the African bush, he will be working for the rest of his life to pay me back!

As Walter says, "PH should know better than take their clients to areas no animal has ever been before"

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
After reading this whole thread, I am going to do my best to try to forget it before my hunt next year. The last thing I want to worry about whilst in the bush is try to second-guess my PH's financials. I'll just concentrate on the game, making a good shot, and not sweeping anyone in the party.

quote:

After reading this whole thread, I am going to do my best to try to forget it before my hunt next year. The last thing I want to worry about whilst in the bush is try to second-guess my PH's financials. I'll just concentrate on the game, making a good shot, and not sweeping anyone in the party.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Kamo Gari:

Grown men make choices, and have to live with them, or they can try to do something different. I'm not unsympathetic to any man that has a tough time making ends meet, but the crying poor mouth is a bit much, IMHO. No one's forcing a man to stay a PH, if their income isn't enough for them, for whatever reason, to make a living.

That pretty much sums it up. I also have a hard time buying all the "facts and figures" that have been thrown around. I will concede that being a PH is not necessarily the quickest or most direct road to financial independence -- and that is a serious understatement. I will also concede that most undoubtedly do it because they love hunting, being outdoors, having the flexibility that working 130-170 days a year in the field brings, etc. All that said, I am not prepared to accept that smart, rational people work under conditions where their expenses exceed their revenues, even doing something they love. To suggest that each day, each week, each month and each year that they work they go deeper and deeper into debt with no prospect to recover defies logic and common sense.

My suspicion is that there are other sources of revenue that have been omitted from the "facts and figures" that come from other jobs and other areas, be it photographic safaris, farming, other ventures, etc. It would be like a school teacher saying they lose money teaching school when they ignore the fact that while they are off for three months each year they work at another job. One has to look at the whole picture, not bits and pieces.

Do not get me wrong, I think PHs are resourceful, hard working, dedicated professionals that by and large do what they do because they love it, not to get rich -- just like policemen, fireman, school teachers and others.

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Huffaker:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Kamo Gari:

Grown men make choices, and have to live with them, or they can try to do something different. I'm not unsympathetic to any man that has a tough time making ends meet, but the crying poor mouth is a bit much, IMHO. No one's forcing a man to stay a PH, if their income isn't enough for them, for whatever reason, to make a living.

That pretty much sums it up. I also have a hard time buying all the "facts and figures" that have been thrown around. I will concede that being a PH is not necessarily the quickest or most direct road to financial independence -- and that is a serious understatement. I will also concede that most undoubtedly do it because they love hunting, being outdoors, having the flexibility that working 130-170 days a year in the field brings, etc. All that said, I am not prepared to accept that smart, rational people work under conditions where their expenses exceed their revenues, even doing something they love. To suggest that each day, each week, each month and each year that they work they go deeper and deeper into debt with no prospect to recover defies logic and common sense.

My suspicion is that there are other sources of revenue that have been omitted from the "facts and figures" that come from other jobs and other areas, be it photographic safaris, farming, other ventures, etc. It would be like a school teacher saying they lose money teaching school when they ignore the fact that while they are off for three months each year they work at another job. One has to look at the whole picture, not bits and pieces.

Do not get me wrong, I think PHs are resourceful, hard working, dedicated professionals that by and large do what they do because they love it, not to get rich -- just like policemen, fireman, school teachers and others.

2 excellent posts, and I also agree with Mark Young, pretty lame comming on here and expecting everyone to believe they operate at a loss for an entire career?

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Huffaker:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Kamo Gari:

Grown men make choices, and have to live with them, or they can try to do something different. I'm not unsympathetic to any man that has a tough time making ends meet, but the crying poor mouth is a bit much, IMHO. No one's forcing a man to stay a PH, if their income isn't enough for them, for whatever reason, to make a living.

That pretty much sums it up. I also have a hard time buying all the "facts and figures" that have been thrown around. I will concede that being a PH is not necessarily the quickest or most direct road to financial independence -- and that is a serious understatement. I will also concede that most undoubtedly do it because they love hunting, being outdoors, having the flexibility that working 130-170 days a year in the field brings, etc. All that said, I am not prepared to accept that smart, rational people work under conditions where their expenses exceed their revenues, even doing something they love. To suggest that each day, each week, each month and each year that they work they go deeper and deeper into debt with no prospect to recover defies logic and common sense.

My suspicion is that there are other sources of revenue that have been omitted from the "facts and figures" that come from other jobs and other areas, be it photographic safaris, farming, other ventures, etc. It would be like a school teacher saying they lose money teaching school when they ignore the fact that while they are off for three months each year they work at another job. One has to look at the whole picture, not bits and pieces.

Do not get me wrong, I think PHs are resourceful, hard working, dedicated professionals that by and large do what they do because they love it, not to get rich -- just like policemen, fireman, school teachers and others.

2 excellent posts, and I also agree with Mark Young, pretty lame comming on here and expecting everyone to believe they operate at a loss for an entire career?

Interesting point is that for a time this thread sat at the top of the threads right along with Buzz's thread anouncing an expansion of his area.

Perhaps some handle the "business" aspect better than others in Zim.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
Problem with some folks is that they either read in between the lines or do not know the difference between a PH and outfitter.

Maki has nailed it:

"There is a world of difference between a freelance (i.e. part time) PH and a safari operator/PH/entrepreneur."

quote:

Originally posted by longwing:
Mart,

Well done for putting this together, figures look pretty ok to me. As per usual, the nature of the topic has attracted mostly totally unconstructive criticism rather than, well, just some fair comment. Folks, it is obvious,given Martin's figures, that most PHs have an off-season job as well as a working wife or a rich family to fall back on. His figures ARE close to the mark - accept it and move on....Saeed, do you think your PH likes bumping around in his truck all day anymore then you do? Heck, you do it for 21 days, he does it for 120. If you don't like bumping around in the truck and paying big bucks to do so the answer is simple: stay home.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by longwing:
Mart,

Well done for putting this together, figures look pretty ok to me. As per usual, the nature of the topic has attracted mostly totally unconstructive criticism rather than, well, just some fair comment. Folks, it is obvious,given Martin's figures, that most PHs have an off-season job as well as a working wife or a rich family to fall back on. His figures ARE close to the mark - accept it and move on....Saeed, do you think your PH likes bumping around in his truck all day anymore then you do? Heck, you do it for 21 days, he does it for 120. If you don't like bumping around in the truck and paying big bucks to do so the answer is simple: stay home.

If I and people like me stayed at home, PHs would be out of a job!

The only way those PHs have a job is because brainless nitwits like us hunterw hos pend our hard earned money to let you do something you enjoy.

And what do we get in return?

Tse tse fly bites, malaria, encounters with mad elephants, chased by buffalo suffering from bovine flue, have to cross man eating croc rivers. Sleeping in unp[rotected flimsy tents while hyaenas are fighting outside, unable to sleep at night, because of the roaring lions 50 yards across the river...I can go on and on and on about all the nasty stuff those so called PHs put us through!

And the sad part is we are all so bloody stupid, we keep coming back, year after year, hoping things would improve!

I have been at this game for 30 years, and have not seen any improvements!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Next time I hunt in Zimbabwe I am paying with Zim Dollars!

I just found out that I am a Nonillionaire in Zim Dollars!