Just saw on the news a story that primers went off in checked luggage at MIA. Can't be good news for travel with firearms/ammo..

Nope, primers are not allowed on airplanes at all.

Legal or not, they still went off. If illegal primers can go off,what about legal ammo??

I smell a rat ... you have to hit a primer with a hammer on a flat surface to get it to go off. Crushing a primer sideways in the primer pocket won't do it. Millions of primers are shipped around the world .... there is more to this story. (That, I suspect, is why the FBI were involved ....)

Funny, I am sitting on a plane right now (Delta 2121 from DTW to PHX) and decided to check out AR - the first thing I see is this. Hope none go off here at 37,000 feet.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana1:
Just saw on the news a story that primers went off in checked luggage at MIA. Can't be good news for travel with firearms/ammo..

Whoever wrote that story is full of BS - primers don't "go off" on their own accord.

You guys are expecting that the media will have correctly reported the facts of the incident?

Have another eggnog.....

But...if primers, as we in the shooting sports know them were involved, we can expect a knee jerk reaction from both the airline industry and our friends at TSA that will further restrict our rights. Bet on it.

Read the headline on Drudge and then the underlying ones.

"Can of Hairspray Ammunition in Luggage Explodes at Miami Airport...

"Exploding Bullets - Not Hairspray - Caused Bomb Scare at Miami Airport: TSA"

"Exploding bag contained 700 bullet primers"

This is from the same article, a marvel of inconsistency typical of our oh so enlightened press. We're screwed.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana1:
Just saw on the news a story that primers went off in checked luggage at MIA. Can't be good news for travel with firearms/ammo..

Yep,

And Aretha Franklin, Bill Cosby & Charlie Sheen were reported to have died; those great "news
stories".

For those that may not know the above are Big Name entertainers in the U.S. and recently have all been reported to have died. THEY ALL ARE ALIVE & WELL.

quote:

Originally posted by TWL:
But...if primers, as we in the shooting sports know them were involved, we can expect a knee jerk reaction from both the airline industry and our friends at TSA that will further restrict our rights. Bet on it.

They're already banned from travel and have been for many years anyway. If it was primers then the airport security staff and security systems were at fault for allowing them onto the aircraft.

That said, knee jerk reactions are never logical so you could be right... Let's also not forget that technically, the EU passed a regulation earlier this year to prohibit ammo being carried on flights exiting or entering the EU.

ADDED

Complete story here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...linked-says-FBI.html

I am sure that regardless of the facts, this will be misrepresented in the media. Hopefully logic prevails.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana1:
Legal or not, they still went off. If illegal primers can go off,what about legal ammo??

It takes a lot less to fire an unseated primer than one that is seated in a primer pocket of a cartridge.
Loaded ammo is allowed on passenger planes as long as they are in separator boxes, either factory box, or after market separator boxes up to 11 pounds inside a lockable hard shelled container, like a gun case. Even in the proper separator boxes they are not allowed in soft side luggage.

quote:

by Fjold;
Nope, primers are not allowed on airplanes at all.

The primers alone are RESTRICTED ARTICLESand are not allowed on PASSENGER planes. They can be shipped by Air on a freighter aircraft or privately owned airplane.

FOX NEWS a few minutes ago. This guy had 700 rounds of handgun ammo in his luggage to keep his kids from getting at it. He forgot it was there when he packed for his trip. Really? DUH!!!

Mark

I think this report pretty much covers it.

http://www1.whdh.com/news/arti...ed-for-bullet-parts/

The guy's cover story sounds bogus. The real reason he had it in his luggage is most likely that he was headed to Jamaica and was likely smuggling the primers.

a local in miami says workers saw no primers or bullets that went off because it did not happen according to them it was a can of hairsray that made the noise. wonder why we have not seen actual pictures of ammo or primers that went off?

quote:

Originally posted by gerryb:
a local in miami says workers saw no primers or bullets that went off because it did not happen according to them it was a can of hairsray that made the noise. wonder why we have not seen actual pictures of ammo or primers that went off?

The passenger would NOT have been arrested if it had been hairspray!!

Primers are hazmat, covered by CFR 49. You can look up the legality of having them on board an aircraft, if you want to.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana1:

quote:

Originally posted by gerryb:
a local in miami says workers saw no primers or bullets that went off because it did not happen according to them it was a can of hairsray that made the noise. wonder why we have not seen actual pictures of ammo or primers that went off?

The passenger would NOT have been arrested if it had been hairspray!!

Canisters with compressed gases are not permitted either - guess that would account for the hairspray.

Yes, the passenger WOULD have been arrested if it was only hairspray...it is a prohibited item!! It is NOT legal to even carry HANDLOADED ammo on aircraft, only factory loaded and in factory boxes. That's why I use Safari Arms or Superior if I want Custom Loads...otherwise, good old Federal Premium or Remington with Trophy Bonded or Swift bullets!! I don't want to face a Federal charge and prison time!!
As you know TSA just whacked a pilot for taking pictures at SFO, chastising possible security leaks by ramp employees, and think about the poor guy moving into New Jersey that was arrested for legal guns in his car and spent 4 months in the clink before his sentence was commuted!! The enforcers are serious these days, Boys and Girls!! Know the rules and don't do something stupid!!!DUUHHH!!

quote:

Originally posted by 470EDDY:
Yes, the passenger WOULD have been arrested if it was only hairspray...it is a prohibited item!! It is NOT legal to even carry HANDLOADED ammo on aircraft, only factory loaded and in factory boxes.

Where does it say you can't carry handloaded ammo? I have been screened many times by airlines and TSA and nobody has ever said a thing about my handloads.
As long as they are in plastic or cardboard boxes that keep the individual shells separate (I use Frankfort plastic boxes) there is no problem. Did something change recently?

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:

quote:

Originally posted by 470EDDY:
Yes, the passenger WOULD have been arrested if it was only hairspray...it is a prohibited item!! It is NOT legal to even carry HANDLOADED ammo on aircraft, only factory loaded and in factory boxes.

Where does it say you can't carry handloaded ammo? I have been screened many times by airlines and TSA and nobody has ever said a thing about my handloads.
As long as they are in plastic or cardboard boxes that keep the individual shells separate (I use Frankfort plastic boxes) there is no problem. Did something change recently?

I believe 470 misread the rules. They say "ammo must be in factory boxes". No where does it say that it has to be "factory ammo".

Now they usually stipulate "factory boxes" or containers designed for carrying cartridges.

Watch out 470, you don't want to be found guilty of starting internet rumors. The enforcers are serious these days.

Perhaps the primers were taken out of their original box and lumped together in something else to disguise what they were! This probably was the reason they went off!

TSA took away my hand warmers which were in my checked luggage last year!

The issue on carrying personally handloaded ammo has been in the IATA (International Air Transport Association) rules for 15-20 years....the same ones that set the 5KG limits on how much ammo you can carry in checked luggage. This is an intrepretation of what comprises explosive devices.
Better check it out...it is a fact!!...unless it has been changed, I don't think so??

I doubt it, other than I'd bet a bunch of stuff has been added. I've hauled literally thousands of tons of hazmat, both on civilian flights and military contract flights. It's amazing what you can stuff inside an airplane on military contract trips. Once hauled 22,000 pounds of dynamite from El Salvador to Charleston.

470 raises a couple of good points.

The over riding legislation is the Air Navigation Order (Carriage of Dangerous Goods) Act but there is also other legislation (esp in the US) and of course, individual airlines have their own regulations as well and as he says, in the society in which we now live, it pays not to get it wrong.

Regarding packaging. You’re allowed 5 Kgs of ammunition per passenger and it must be stored in manufacturers packaging OR other container that keeps every round separated from every other round. (MTM cases fit this criteria).

It’s worth noting that metallic ammo packed in manufacturers packaging pretty much always does ensure that every round is kept separated from every other round but that most shotgun ammo manufacturers packaging does not but as it’s manufacturers packaging, it still fits the criteria for travel.

Regarding home loaded ammo: I can’t remember the exact location of the phrase he’s referring to but there is something either in the act or one of the ancillary pieces of legislation OR commonly in airline regulations (the more I think about it, the more I think it comes from airline regulations rather than legislation but I’m not 100% certain on that) that says something like ‘home made ammunition’ is not allowed....... Note the exact wording of that phrase.

It doesn’t say home loaded or home assembled from manufacturers parts, it says home made and although this has never (to the best of my knowledge) been properly addressed, the general interpretation is that home loads that are assembled from manufacturers parts are perfectly legal and I for one have been travelling with such items for decades and I’ve never known anyone have their ammo confiscated because they’re home assembled from manufacturers parts.

I assume 470 is referring to IATA as in the International Air Transport Association which is a trade organisation and therefore cannot make laws and (for the purposes of this debate) can only recommend that members adopt certain rules..... If it is them, (FWIW) the only mention of travel with ammo that I can find on their webite is here:

http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/c...s/passenger_faq.aspx and it says:

"Sporting weapons and an amount of ammunition up to 5 kg (11 lb) may be in passenger checked baggage only. The weapon must be unloaded and be in its designated transport box. Please check with the airline you intend to travel on to make necessary arrangements". - in other words, I can't find any mention of home loaded or home made ammo.

Jetdrvr also raises a good point but in all honesty, what has happened in the past and what should happen in the present and the future are two different things.

My guess is travel with firearms and ammo is going to get increasingly difficult and I can see a time when it’ll become virtually impossible and that an increasing amount of hunters will opt or be forced to use hired rifles from the safari company..... And yes, I appreciate that many safari companies will be forced to improve the standard of their loaner rifles.

The latest example of that can be found in the first para of ‘Travel With Ammunition’ here: http://www.shakariconnection.c...l-with-firearms.html