Hypothetically, if you were on a buff hunt would you rather shoot an 8-year old bull with 42" spread, or a 14-year old bull with a 38" spread?

Both buffs have nice, solid, 15" bosses, with the older bull's boss being slightly more polished.

The reason I pose this, is because some game conservationists feel that shooting a breeding bull (the 8-year old) is considered bad form, and only the older, non-breeding bulls should be shot.

What say you?

BH63

The 14 year old bull - no question - and it would not even be close!

......and as to your last statement, the older I get, the more true it becomes!

I like them old and cranky, like most of us here on AR :-)

I agree 100%! I would rather shoot the old boy who is not breeding anymore and has already spread his genes. The young bull is still breeding. It's a no brainer.

Same as previously stated. That and old dugga boys are smart and a real challenge

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
I like them old and cranky, like most of us here on AR :-)

What????? No Blaser?????

Yes, the old bull with the 38" spread. My first bull was estimated to be around 17 years old and he was not quite a scrum cap, but he was working on it.

quote:

Originally posted by subsailor74:

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
I like them old and cranky, like most of us here on AR :-)

What????? No Blaser?????

Mauser M03 might be more of a contraption than the Blaser is.

Either for me. Let God provide which one...

When the PH asks me what I'm looking for, I tell him the oldest animals around.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
I like them old and cranky, like most of us here on AR :-)

Which one is the buffalo?
Cal

If I saw an 8 yr old 42" wide, 15" hard-bossed buffalo I would have no qualms about shooting his ass.

quote:

What????? No Blaser?????

Dave, since Mauser is owned by Blaser, I got a special dispensation :-)

Cal, I'm only 12...in Buffalo years!

As long as it's solid bossed, shoot whichever you think looks nicer.

I'm at the point where either is fine by me, but it has to be solid bossed. I would hesitate to pass on a 42" solid boss "hoping" to find an older one, and if I ran into a gnarled old 38", no reason not to shoot it. Shot more than a few 34-36" in the Selous my last time, only rule was solid bossed.

I'm going on a two buf hunt in Oct. and will be looking for two OLD,OLD, white faced bulls with worn down horns. The search for old bulls with age being the criteria, rather than width, can be even more challenging.

quote:

Originally posted by FishN4Eyes:
If I saw an 8 yr old 42" wide, 15" hard-bossed buffalo I would have no qualms about shooting his ass.

I've got a 42" wide, 15 1/2" bossed buffalo on the wall. I wonder if he was 8 years old?

a younger Bull just doesn't give you that " you owe me money look "

This old fellow is a great Buffalo

The first one of them I saw!

Guys,

IMO PSmith has it nailed. It's nice to talk about turning down a mature bull in his prime but I doubt many would really walk away from a hard head 42" bull. I freely admit that I would not.

Mark

The ugliest SOB I can find.

Pretty boy can go find a mate!

I've shot buffalo in the low 40's. Don't need another one in that range if he's young. Something hard-bossed and over 45 and I'd have to think about it. That said, I shot three last year and they were all 38-39". Youngest was estimated at 11 (needed bait). And that was the most fun I've ever had hunting buffalo.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Guys,

IMO PSmith has it nailed. It's nice to talk about turning down a mature bull in his prime but I doubt many would really walk away from a hard head 42" bull. I freely admit that I would not.

Mark

I would gladly pass, and pick an older bull - even one with no horns, over a you younger one.

We actually leave bigger, younger trophies for others, and pick the very old ones no one wants.

I have no idea how many buffalo I have shot, the biggest was a 49" bull with one broken horn.

I have shot quite a number in the 40-46" range, and some that have nothing but smooth stubs left.

I would prefer to shoot a tough bull with a hard boss.I don't mind if it is old as long as it is not sick.I would let the hunt go along as is and see what opportunity arises then decide.The only time I had no issue with the selection of buff was when I hunted Makuti.In Makuti there were quality buff all around some old ones too.The other areas I would be lucky to get 30 inches and hard bossed even if I paid a 1300 daily rate.If I wanted to hunt ranches maybe it would be different but I have no interested in doing so.

Really interesting answers. I would probably opt for the 42" bull, since I only have two buff and they are both around 34". If the older bull really had a ton of character I might go with the 38" head.

That pic Jan posted of the old bull really got my heart going. I would guess that bull to be 40" or better.

BH63

A quick glance through a skinning shed or taxidermist's prep rooms is revealing on which answer people pick in real life!

The first one with a clear shot

Since I haven't shot one yet either would be in danger.

Old and hard headed

that is the best buff mount I have ever seen!!

i hope that someday I will have the opportunity to have to make such a decision!1

The "first timer" will always be hoping for the biggest and the best and wouldn't know the difference between mature and past effective breeding age; p.s. dagga boys with worn out horns are still capable of breeding - just look at ourselves

That said, once you are satiated with the "spread" fetish, you will have gained sufficient wisdom to know that the old dagga boys, with their varied selection of gnarled, polished or worn down scrum cap horns are really the ones to go for as they would be the most likely adversary with which to "lock horns" and get a run for your money.

Or just shoot them all

Great pics of old buff. The boss on the rightmost buff (as you are looking at the pic) on the second pic is fantastic!

To be honest I would only shoot a buff with a scrum head if it there was no charge and the buff was a proven danger to humans.

As for the really old buff being dangerous, I would expect even with buff they reach a point where their "senior moments" become more frequent then all their years of hard won experience (I belive that is nature's way of getting rid of the useless. JMO).

Good Hunting,

BH63

quote:

I like them old and cranky, like most of us here on AR :-)

i believe i'd have shot the rifle instead of the buff

I wouldn't consider shooting an 8 year old bull. Even if he had 50" horns.

Bob

Maybe one that's old , warn down and wide ?

quote:

Originally posted by Jan Dumon:
Maybe one that's old , warn down and wide ?

Bugger off Jan and no where on this thread you are allowed all three.

Great old bulls.

Comment about looking at what gets mounted being the best indication of what is generally shot is so true. I returned this week from a stay at a private club whose members are hunters and fishermen. I was a guest.

There is a lot of taxidermy in the club. There was a buffalo shoulder mount, hard-bossed, but looked to be about 33-34". Mature, but not particularly old.

Actually, that might have been a bull that should be taken and not allowed to breed.

Just an observation from someone that has not, and probably never will hunt Cape Buffalo, but in a situation on a hunt, I would shoot the first bull I came across, but in a situation where I could pick and choose, the old bull has the most important aspect, character, and that only comes with age.

Contrary to popular belief bulls will bread far past 8 years of age. Certainly one wants to shoot the oldest bull he can, within reason, but a 8 year old bull that is hard bossed, and shows some baldness in his face with a 42" spread is a taker on the last few days of a safari. In the first place what you think is an 8 yr old may be a 10 yr old, and any 10 yr old has already passed his genes on certainly. There is no way I would shoot a scrum cap buffalo regardless of age. He needs to be left for the lions to feed on while also training the near grown cubs.

...................................................................Show me a person who can accurately tell the difference between a 8 and 10 yr old buffalo if both are hard bossed!

....................................................................

quote:

.Show me a person who can accurately tell the difference between a 8 and 10 yr old buffalo if both are hard bossed!

Any takers??


BH63