The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Picking up brass while on a DG hunt. Good idea?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Ok so I was bored last night and got out some DVD's to watch other people hunt Buffalo. I couldn't help but notice a good amount of clients scouring the ground for spent brass. The one that stood out was a guy hunting with a nice English boxlock double, probably set him back 15k or so. After emptying the double into a buff he cranes his neck to admire the shot even while the PH was screaming RELOAD! RELOAD! he finally opens his gun and began to scour the ground for the spent brass. He picks up one and start sprinting after the PH who is already running after the wounded buff. Now I thought the reason to have a double is the ability to quickly shoot a quarry and instantly reload to full battery whether you shot one or both barrels and be ready for a charge if it comes. I noticed it with bolt trash as well. You would think that having spent X amount of $ to hunt DG in Africa to possibly loose thousands of dollars on a lost Trophy fee over a few dollars worth of brass is foolish at best. Or worse, not being ready to stop a charge while you are scouring for brass. Is it just instinct to these guys? | ||
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When I hunted in Africa (8 safaris) I almost always retrieved my brass but only after the action was done. I ALWAYS reloaded immediately and pursued the game as required. If I lost a few cases so be it, but the expended brass also makes for a good trophy and brings back memories. I also keep any recovered bullets and the skinners received a reward for any recoveries. Not for an analysis of effectiveness ,just for the memories. SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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When things got hectic, my instrument flight instructor told me, "Fly the plane first, worry about the rest when you can." Pretty good advice. I think it is applicable to DG hunting as well, namely, concentrating on the task at hand, clean up the fine details when the dust settles. Trackers are pretty good at spotting things most of us take an hour to see. They can always be sent back to pick up brass if it is that rare or important. | |||
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Call me lucky, but my trackers have always picked up my brass for me when the game is down.  NRA Life Benefactor Member, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center,Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/ | |||
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tx I think too many of us are on auto pilot from a lot of range time not devoted to rapid fire drills. I've been absolutely shocked to see on videos hunters fiddling about with empty brass when the animal may or may not be down for the count. Personally I don't give the ejected brass any thought at all when I'm actually hunting. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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We as humans will react under stress exactly to the level and quality of our training. The saying goes, you will never rise to the occasion in times of stress rather you will fall to your level of training. The FBI used to require as part of their firing range training that agents police and pick up their brass after each reload during a course of fire, requiring the shooter to fire his revolver reload and pick their brass before re engaging the target and they did it just exactly like they were trained and drilled on the firing range. They started to find that most of their agents that were shot in the line of duty had pockets full of empty brass, guess what? In times of stress the agents were stopping mid firefight to pick up their brass just exactly like they did at the firing range. Train the way you fight, fight the way you train. The same can be said for hunting and DG hunting in particular train the way you hunt, hunt the way you train. So my advice is that you practice firing your rifle, practice reloading your rifle, practice moving and reloading, snap shooting, emergency reloading and doing all of the things you should be doing to get good with any firearm and after you're done for the day and have relaxed a bit then you go and collect your brass. NEVER do it while in the middle of a shooting drill. Stress is a funny thing and your brain will revert to the most basic motor skills that you have drilled into in times of stress. So make those basic skills meaningful or you're looking for trouble. | |||
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Excellent example. Which reminds me, I need to load some more .45s. | |||
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WR - Funny thing never once in all my hunts after going to the downed animal did I think of sending the tracker back for my brass. How dumb. Would like to have the 470's I got my second elephant with. SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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never worried about the brass. If I could afford to hunt dangerous game in Africa I could afford a few bucks worth of brass. | |||
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On the advice of my PH -six months before the hunt I started firing and reloading and not worrying about brass till later. On the actual hunt i did have to do a hot reload-and everything worked well. The trackers took care of collecting all the brass. So as many said above-practice as you would hunt. "The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane." Mark Twain TANSTAAFL www.savannagems.com A unique way to own a piece of Africa. DSC Life NRA Life | |||
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Good topic. Picking up empty brass has been always done after the hunt is over or by an extra Water man following up behind. On one safari to Tanzania, my assigned tracker would always take my rifle while tracking and we were on the move. His job was to make sure my rifle was ready to fire when we found game. I always loaded the magazine, however my tracker would chamber the round when the PH indicated for him to do so. He would always put a new round in the chamber for me and put the safety on. I am not sure if they had many clients who actually chambered there own rounds. Because, after a shot, Little did this guy know that i had already had put a new round in the chamber and was ready to go. i must have lost about 10 rounds in the field some place in the bush on that safari. All on one Nyasa Wildebeest stalk and followup. The other animals were one shot kills, except for a pain in the butt cape buffalo, that did not know he was dead. On other safaris to other African countries, i was always ready to after the first shot to make sure i could make a quick followup shot if need be. Empties were picked up after the stalk and hunt if we found them. This usually depends on the camp PH if he want the brass to trade or use. as i leave all the used stuff in Africa. New and one time fired Brass is difficult to find at times in Africa. Right now i am looking for 50 new brass cases for him to take in 2014 for the PH an item he is looking for and would like me to bring if i can find some. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "You've got the strongest hand in the world. That's right. Your hand. The hand that marks the ballot. The hand that pulls the voting lever. Use it, will you" John Wayne | |||
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"I think too many of us are on auto pilot from a lot of range time not devoted to rapid fire drills." Amen to that. I too was guilty of this for my first buff. Only when the cameraman replayed it for me in his viewfinder did I gasp and realize what I had been doing. With the lack of component availability, costs, etc...it almost becomes instinctive as a reloader to pick up the spent brass on the range and that habit carried over. I stopped picking up brass until it was definitely over and no danger from then forward immediately after seeing that. DRSS Sabatti 450\400 NE Merkel 140-2 500 NE | |||
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "You've got the strongest hand in the world. That's right. Your hand. The hand that marks the ballot. The hand that pulls the voting lever. Use it, will you" John Wayne | |||
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I've also seen a number of hunters trying to reach over hang on to their brass as they are cycling the bolt. Under stress old habits kick in. My favorite is the number of hunters fiddling with the scope magnification while on the sticks. A lot to be said for straight power scopes and dangerous game! | |||
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Not a good idea. Kill it first then worry about brass. I'm not a reloader which is an advantage in Africa, I don't give a shit about the brass. The trackers always bring it to me anyway. BUTCH C'est Tout Bon (It is all good) | |||
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This is a TRAINING problem. If you condition yourself when practicing to look down for your brass immediately you WILL do it when the chips are down. Law enforcement officers train to prevent this type of reflex & hunters should too. ESPECIALLY anyone hunting dangerous game. It can get you or someone with you killed. Another problem often observed on these videos is not quickly chambering another round while admiring the shot. You should not have to be told to reload it should just happen. Never take your eye off the DG, be ready to follow up quickly - your life may depend on it. Just my opinion for what it is worth. | |||
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What Butch said..... | |||
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+1 Once I know the animal is down or need to wait to it to succumb to blood lost then I'll look. I can say I do try and pick up spent shotgun shells while out hunting. I can't always find my own and feel better about myself when I find someone else's. Not that I like to litter or pick up litter but, just cleaning up the enviroment. MSG, USA (Ret.) Armor NRA Life Memeber | |||
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If you would like your brass after the shot... make it clear to the PH and he can instruct either the tracker or the waterman to pick it up for you. Should YOU worry about the brass on a DG hunt? I'd suggest the answer is no. Think about YOUR priorities and you'l find that picking up brass is/should not be one of them. Safari James USMC DRSS | |||
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This is my 31st year of hunting in Africa. I have developed a habit of never letting my empties hit the ground. And I cannot remember every loosing a case, or ever being in any sort of danger. This despite the fact that I have shot at least 200 dangerous game animals. Including several elephants, lions, leopards and buffalo. On one occasion I dropped two lions within feet of each other after being charged by a lioness. On several occasions I have dropped 2,3 or 4 buffalo within a few yards of each other. Again, all cases are saved. I think it depends of training yourself. | |||
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I have to say this drives me absolutey nuts. They don't know 100% sure the animal is dead because they have not walked up to it yet but they are back slapping with an empty chamber. I find myself yelling at the TV often when this happens. OR they have to wait for the animals to turn broadside before shooting. Why? A quartering or frontal shot through the chest is just devastating. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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I do reload; at the range I wait until I am finished shooting to police up the brass. As I said earlier, in the field I don't pay any attention to the brass. Losing a wounded animal costs way more than losing a few shells. | |||
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BAD HABIT and hard to break. I have been caught on camera picking up brass and its a BAD HABIT. Sure it was after animal was down and out but still not good. Tell a tracker you will tip him if he saves your brass. You won't lose a piece. When practicing you should let your brass fly and never catch it in your hand or pick it up off the ground until you have put up the gun. You will do the same thing when hunting even if you don't know you are doing it. Conditioned reflex! I've actually found brass in my pocket after a hunt was over and I was looking for my brass. When practicing I'd catch the brass and stick it in my pocket. BAD HABIT! | |||
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This has been covered before, but I'd be extremely careful about bring ANY components to Africa, some countries being worse than others. You might find those gift cases to be unbelievably expensive. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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I hear you brother. | |||
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you can always tell if a guy is a dyed in the wool reloader. he might come out shooting wearing a suit, derby hat, drive up in a $200,000 car, and be on his hand and knees picking up .02 worth of brass | |||
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I witness this regularly in many of my cull hunting clients. They will put an animal down, eject the spent cartridge, and stop to look for the case in the grass. In the mean time, another animal runs out which they never see. Experienced cull hunters/reloaders develop good habits by sliding their front hand to cover the breech when ejecting the empty, catch it, and still keep an eye on what's happening. Some even use a skeet/trap shell pouch on their belts to dump expended brass due to the high volume of shooting. The last time I was guilty of saving brass was in 1983 when I had to stop a charge of a 10' 3" brown bear at 25 ft. after 3 earlier shots. All four 375 H&H brass were later found in my pocket which I have no recollection of placing there. I then swore that in hunting, I would never be penny wise and pound foolish. Geoff Shooter | |||
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I see it all the time!!! A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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As others experienced, the trackers grabbed brass for me without asking. I actually didn't expect them too and figured a few bucks of brass was the least of my worries and didn't try to recover any. I was a bit surprised that after we would approach a downed animal one of the trackers would come over with the spent casing to give me. ____________________________ If you died tomorrow, what would you have done today ... 2018 Zimbabwe - Tuskless w/ Nengasha Safaris 2011 Mozambique - Buffalo w/ Mashambanzou Safaris | |||
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The Newall Massacre saw 3 rookie California Highway Patrolmen killed in a gunfight with one assailant. They found empty brass in their pockets, one was killed while trying to reload the cylinder to full before shooting back, all loading was done from dump pouches. The cops all missed with all their shots at very close range. The guns were Smith 4" model 19/66 .357s firing full magnum loads. They were taught to eject empties into their palm and dro them into their pockets. They were never told that in a tight situation you can load a few chambers close the cylinder and fire instead of loading all the way up. They were forced to use loose ammo in dump pouches instead of speed loaders, they were trained with mid range wadcutter .38s and only fired magnums for qualification. Their training killed them all. After reading about this, I quit looking for brass until I was done shooting. Bad habits kill. | |||
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I can't think of any friends that've come out here hunting with me that I haven't had to coach/ heckle about reloading and keeping shooting. I understand why, they're just used to smaller game/ lower 48 hunting. Shoot the buck, let him run off, go collect him over the hill. As to the o.p., I clearly remember telling myself to cycle the empty brass out of my rifle into the stern of my boat while shooting my moose this fall. 62" bull broadside at 50 yards, I've easily got more than 200 new cases for that particular rifle, and I was concerned and later pleased to note I hadn't lost any empties.  | |||
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I killed a cow elk two weeks ago. After putting in a finisher(head shot) I thought to look for the brass on the ground. I was surprised to find that both empties were in my chest pocket. Maybe fairies put them there? I agree that it is a horrible habit. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Gatogordo. I'm not saying your wrong on your remarks about taking reloading components, cases, bullets, to Africa is illegal. RSA it isn't, maybe is in Zim, but most of the countries don't seem to mind. I took stuff to the PHs on the last two hunts. One thing, don't say anything about having it with you, and I've not had anyone inspect my luggage yet. In fact, the last trip, to RSA, the inspector didn't ask to see my ammo. I was going to get it out and the PH said, if he didn't ask, don't show it. Which I didn't. No one seemed to care. | |||
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I need to check my brass for pressure signs and case neck splits before I fire off another shot. Just a damn shame PHs don't set up their sticks with a chronograph out front so we can check velocity and update notes on just how our reloads are performing in the field. Provided the animal is not charging we can take care of it later when "it has decided how it wants to die". Checking our guns and ammo should take precedent when hunting  Yer right! I only ever look at the animal when shooting, to me brass is just a consumable in the field. | |||
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Tysue, you're missing the problem here. The problem isn't with Zim or RSA concerning taking components into Africa. The problem is with the U.S. State Department in exporting them out of the country without proper documentation and permission!! If you get caught, by Zim or RSA, you're correct in that no one will care. If you get caught by the U.S. State Department, they damn sure WILL care!! | |||
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Speaking of poorly trained poorly prepared Dg hunters. Did any of you guys catch Rob Dunham's Buff hunt episode on "Moments of Impact" several weeks ago?? Ho Lee Schittz bat man! He has a bit of trouble but the buff it's hit hard several times before going down no biggie it happens. He finally closes the distance on the buff and it stands up and faces him at short range. He aims and drops the hammer on an empty chamber! He forgot to reload! In fact I think the gun was EMPTY! Fortunately the buff did not charge if it would have that was bound to have been some fantastic pee pee dance footage. That is a prime example of not having prepared yourself for a DG hunt. I'm sure Rob is a fine hunter but this is an example of what lack of training mixed with stress can do to you. | |||
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Who cares about a $5 piece of brass on an expensive safari? It is your responsibility to kill as quickly and humanely as possible, not gunk around in the grass looking for brass. Anyway, if its not picked up maybe some hunter will come along in 5 years (or 50) and find it and say, hey look, I bet someone shot a ______ here long ago! | |||
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+1 What TerryR originally said.  If, when all of the action is over, I get the brass, great. If not, oh well. . . .(I've even lost an occasional loaded round out of one of my ammo belts, but I don't go gaga worrying about it or looking for it.)  | |||
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In a perfect world I would without a doubt bring back the empty case used to take an African trophy.It would be something I would not mind hanging on to-it just makes me feel good about the hunt and everything.It can be put in a gun cabinet along with other things and make for conversation etc...or you can keep it in a closet and accidentally rediscover it sometime down the line and then stare at it while warm memories(hopefully) come pouring back. | |||
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I pay all the guys for any brass they find after the game is down. They all split even so no hard feelings. Usually comes out to a dollar apiece for each piece of brass. That way I don't look for it and it broke me of the habit. Never lost one piece. Once I took a nasty spill down a mountain and the PH noticed I had lost my watch. I ask the two trackers if they thought they could find it and it took them less than three minutes to run about 200 yards up that hill and find it. They are really a talented crew. Dutch | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Picking up brass while on a DG hunt. Good idea?
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