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Kruger Park: Rhino dump found on govt park - *CORRECTION* 18 carcasses found
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Kruger Park: Rhino dump found on govt park - 17 carcasses found



Elise Tempelhoff and Buks Viljoen, Beeld

Nelspruit - Limpopo officials have discovered a rhino cemetery containing 17 rhino carcasses at the Letaba Ranch, on the western border of the Kruger National Park.

"We're devastated," Joshua Kwapa, spokesperson for Limpopo's department of economic affairs, development and tourism, said on Thursday.

According to him it seems the animals have been poached in this provincial reserve since last year.

"It could also have been earlier, perhaps even since three yeas ago. All the animals' horns have been removed.

"It's gruesome. We're shocked. We've launched a high-level investigation. The guilty parties must pay."

Kwapa insisted the gruesome find happened recently.

The border fences between the Letaba Ranch and the Kruger Park were removed several years ago, and game moved back and forth freely.

The management of the Letaba Ranch has come under severe fire over the past few years because the ranch appears to have collapsed.

An expert in environmental management, who prefers not to be named, wanted to know on Thursday how it's possible that carcasses could lie in the reserve for two years without the provincial department knowing about it.

"Heads must roll."

Shootout

Beeld has learned that investigators visited the area on Wednesday to determine how the animals had been poached. Apparently some of the horns were hacked off while others were cut off "neatly".

Kwapa says the carcasses were found when a "service provider" was doing a survey of the game on Letaba Ranch. He was flying over the reserve in a helicopter when he saw the carcasses.

According to Kwapa, everything possible will be done to track down the guilty parties. He said members of the national task team appointed to investigate rhino poaching, will also be involved.

Meanwhile, game rangers this week caught three suspected poachers near Pretoriuskop as they were on their way out of the game park.

The three men had four rhino horns with them. A shootout reportedly broke out between the men and the rangers.

Beeld has heard that one man was wounded in the shooting. He is in hospital in a critical condition.

A police official close to the investigation said game rangers seized a .303 rifle. It was fitted with a homemade silencer - a piece of water pipe welded onto the barrel of the rifle.

Game rangers were searching for more carcasses on Thursday.

Three rhino carcasses were found in the Loskopdam area at the weekend, two more at a reserve in the Hartbeesfontein area in the North West, and a sixth near Mookgophong (Naboomspruit).

So far 268 rhinos have been poached this year.


Cheers,

~ Alan

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Posts: 1114 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 09 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Disgcraceful. Shoot to kill them on sight (The poachers, that is).
 
Posts: 18581 | Registered: 04 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Hell with shooting the poachers.

Drug them and cut off THEIR horn.

That will spook them, I think.
 
Posts: 1994 | Registered: 16 January 2007Reply With Quote
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How much can a rhino horn be sold for to the end user? Where do they end up? China? Yemen?


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Posts: 1849 | Location: Southern California | Registered: 25 July 2006Reply With Quote
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BigBoreCore,

$60,000 per kilogram is what is quoted in the press.

Vietnam is said to be the top destination with China being second. Yemen is not thought to be a major player, but who knows?

Some idiot Vietnamese politician claims that powdered rhino horn cured his cancer, which has caused a big run for it in that country.

Also, contrary to usual Western media claims, rhino horn is not used as an aphrodisiac or a cure for erectile disfunction. Instead they say it is good for cancer, fever, and to drive out demons. Roll Eyes


Cheers,

~ Alan

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Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. ~Keller

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Posts: 1114 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 09 March 2001Reply With Quote
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I'm sure the next thing they will say is that it will cure baldness.

~ Alan


Health Fads Put Rhinos on Death Row

Health Fads Put Rhinos on Death Row

Nguyen Van Lam, a former deputy head of the Government Office, resigned in July 2006 after he was found to have accepted cash as “gifts” from state agencies during an official trip to the south.

The case broke when Lam absent-mindedly left a handbag with 10 envelopes inside containing US$10,300 and VND20 million at the Hanoi airport.

He claimed that only VND2.25 million was meant for him while the rest was from friends and colleagues who wanted him to buy rhino horns for them.

Besides the source of the money, the fact that a senior government official like Lam had intended to buy rhino horns, an illegal act under the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) to which Vietnam is a signatory, was also incriminating, a lawmaker said at that time.

Four months later South African police accused a Vietnamese embassy official in Pretoria, Nguyen Khanh Toan, of carrying rhino horns out of the country.

South African authorities reported to the Vietnamese government since Toan had diplomatic immunity.

But in November last year the Vietnamese embassy in South Africa was again in the news after First Secretary Vu Moc Anh was filmed buying rhino horns to a South African trafficker in front of the embassy building.

Anh was summoned home by the government but it is not clear what action was taken against her.

Why rhino horns?

Traditional Chinese medicine considers rhino horn as one of the three main restoratives. Shaved or ground into a powder, the horn is dissolved in boiling water and used to treat fevers, rheumatism, and gout. East Asians also consider it a powerful aphrodisiac.

Given the increasing affluence among Vietnamese, the rhino’s horn has become more affordable. It is also a status symbol, a means for people to flaunt their wealth. It is thus not all that unusual for affluent Vietnamese and even government officials to gift each other rhino horns.

Now, a belief that the horn can cure cancer is apparently taking root. There were some newspaper reports that a Vietnamese government official claimed it had cured him of cancer, adding to the already booming demand.

The demand for rhino horns in Vietnam has driven poaching to a 15-year-high and pushed the animals perilously close to extinction, a report by the World Wildlife Fund for Nature (WWF), the International Union for the Conservation of Nature (IUCN), and wildlife monitoring network TRAFFIC said last July.

This has also rendered the country a major destination for the horns, the report said.

A report commissioned by CITES and produced by IUCN Rhino Specialist Group and TRAFFIC confirmed last month that Vietnam has become an end-use market for wildlife products in general and rhino horns in particular.

“Currently, most rhino horns leaving southern Africa are destined for end-use markets in southeast and east Asia, especially Vietnam and China,” the November report said.

It highlighted Vietnam as a country of particular concern – noting that Vietnamese nationals operating in South Africa have recently been identified in rhino crime investigations.

In Vietnam, rhino horns (including fake horns) are sold through traditional medicine stores and hospitals, whilst other shops sell special bowls for grinding and mixing the horns, the report said.

The horns were also marketed through at least six virtual trading websites in Vietnam, it said.

The “online” horns are described as authentic, but no locations are given and only mobile phone numbers are provided for contact, it added.

Poaching epicenter

Since 2006 the majority (95 percent) of the poaching in Africa has occurred in Zimbabwe and South Africa, according to new data. “These two nations collectively form the epicenter of an unrelenting poaching crisis in southern Africa,” Tom Milliken of TRAFFIC said.

The clandestine trade in rhino horns between South Africa and certain countries is a matter of serious concern, according to the November report.

It also quoted CITES import data as saying Vietnam only imported 38 rhino horns since 2006 whereas South Africa has said it exported 268 to Vietnam in the same period.

In terms of its CITES listing, only white rhinos can be commercially hunted with a permit but it is illegal for the trophy owner then to sell the horn. But poachers from China and Vietnam have found a loophole for obtaining rhino horn by participating in legal trophy hunts in South Africa.

Investigations in South Africa have revealed disturbing evidence of organized crime, including the frequent involvement of a small number of Vietnamese nationals in rhino hunting, repeatedly on the same game parks.

Other evidence include numerous cases of Vietnamese “trophy hunters” paying above market price for rhino hunts but then having to be instructed in how to shoot and completely foregoing any proper trophy preparation or the issuance of export permits for rhino trophies to Vietnamese nationals previously linked to ongoing rhino crime.

Given this, concerted action at the highest level is needed to stop this rampant rhino poaching, experts said.

“We urge the Vietnamese government to review and honor its obligations under CITES,” said Cathy Dean, director of UK-based NGO Save the Rhino International.

Thomas Osborn, TRAFFIC’s Program Greater Mekong Coordinator, concurred with Dean. He also spelled out specific measures Vietnamese authorities should take to combat the illegal trade.

“The Vietnamese Government [should] openly state that illegal rhino horn and other illegal wildlife trade will not be tolerated,” Osborn told Thanh Nien Weekly. “They can enforce the letter of the law by instituting criminal proceedings against anyone, including officials, healthcare workers and businesses, caught flouting the law.”

Osborn doubted if the eight seizures of rhino horns in Vietnam would be enough of a deterrent.

“Seizing horns and slapping a fine is likely to be of limited effect, especially as the potential profits from rhino horn trade can far outweigh the fines.”

Rhino horns are said to fetch US$25,000– 40,000 per kilogram on the black in Vietnam.

Nguyen Manh Hung, Vietnam’s ambassador to South Africa, told Thanh Nien Weekly that his embassy is fully aware of the seriousness of the problem and would be in close touch with the South African government to prevent this illegal trade.

“We have been educating our staff as well as all Vietnamese citizens in South Africa to adhere to the CITES regulations and domestic laws. We will not brook any participation by Vietnamese in the illegal wildlife trade,” he said.

Dean of Save the Rhino International also called for tougher action from the South African government.

“South Africa should be encouraged to review its annual hunting quotes, to ensure that they are set at sustainable levels in these changing times,” Dean told Thanh Nien Weekly.

The South African government should impose tighter control over its trophy-head export licenses so that rhino trophies can only be exported to countries that have policies in place to register and track the ownership of such trophies, and ensure that they will not be used for commercial purposes or resale, Dean said.

Verge of extinction

The report also raises concerns about the low and declining numbers as well as the uncertain status of some of the Sumatran and Javan Rhino populations in Malaysia, Indonesia, and Vietnam.

Vietnam has few rhinos left. No one is quite sure how many though people believe there may be only around five individuals, Osborn said.

WWF researchers began a census last month to see how many there are.

“The resurgence of rhino-horn trade in Vietnam and possibly China and other parts of Asia is of paramount concern but remains poorly documented, especially the extent of usage and trade in end-use markets in Asia,” the report said.

“This issue needs to be carefully assessed, including through a better understanding of the policies, legislation, and law-enforcement actions of governments in end-use markets, especially Vietnam, where internet trading of alleged rhino horns is currently taking place.”


PANACEA MYTH

International experts urge Vietnamese authorities to dispel a deep-rooted belief that rhino horns can cure cancer and other diseases.

“The demand has increased because of the perceived medicinal benefits of using rhino horn, including the ‘new’ use of curing cancer. However, there appears to be no traditional medical backing to say that it works for cancer,” Thomas Osborn, TRAFFIC’s Greater Mekong Program Coordinator, says.

Rhino horn is made of keratin, the same substance that is found in human hair and nails and “reporting this supposed cure was highly irresponsible, and may have led to other people wanting to buy rhino horn,” says Cathy Dean, director of UK-based NGO Save the Rhino International.

“But it was not, and never was, a cure for cancer,” says Susan Lieberman, former WWF species program director.


Cheers,

~ Alan

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Posts: 1114 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 09 March 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Bunn:
BigBoreCore,

$60,000 per kilogram is what is quoted in the press.



You would think if that price is correct there would be someone farming rhino.


Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown
 
Posts: 6842 | Location: Nome, Alaska(formerly SW Wyoming) | Registered: 22 December 2003Reply With Quote
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You see prices all over the board, but $60K must be what it is worth when sold by the pill in China and Vietnam.

The article I just posted quoted: Rhino horns are said to fetch US$25,000– 40,000 per kilogram on the black in Vietnam.

I wonder what Groenewald, Fletcher, Saaiman, et al were putting in their pockets for each kilogram of rhino horn?

To paraphrase Long Shanks in the movie Brave Heart... "they turned for a lot less". Cool


Cheers,

~ Alan

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email: editorusa(@)africanxmag(dot)com

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Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. ~Keller

To be persuasive we must be believable; to be believable we must be credible; to be credible we must be truthful. ~ Murrow
 
Posts: 1114 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 09 March 2001Reply With Quote
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How many kilograms in the average rhino horn? One kilogram weighs approximately 2.5 pounds / 40 ounces. If the blackmarket wholesale buyer pays an average of $ 32,500 for one kilogram of rhino horn and the normal mark ups are used in the production process then....

Poacher gets $ 8,125
African Exporter $ 16,125
End country wholesaler $ 32,500
Retail purchaser $ 65,000

How many kilograms in the average rhino horn? I am guessing about six kilograms or 15 pounds? Am I close? I never lifted one so I have no idea. If I am close then multiply the above figures by six to get the total values. An average rhino horn ground up and sold on the street level like herion would a a value of 390,000 US dollars! Is this possible?


STAY IN THE FIGHT!
 
Posts: 1849 | Location: Southern California | Registered: 25 July 2006Reply With Quote
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Nothing other than MURDER, these gooksno good shit eating son's of bitches should be hung on morning live tv

EDITED
 
Posts: 605 | Location: South Africa | Registered: 07 February 2008Reply With Quote
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Questions raised after 17 rhino carcasses are discovered

The discovery of at least 17 rhino carcasses in Limpopo has sparked some serious questions about the official explanation for their deaths and why the find was kept secret.

The bleak discovery was made public on Thursday but happened last week at a game reserve bordering the Kruger National Park.

Officials said it appears the animals died between 2005 and 2008 but environmentalists said it is impossible that carcasses were not found until now. Some of them were not yet fully decomposed.

“It is just a bit shocking that 17 carcasses were found in a game farm and no one knows about it,” said the Endangered Wildlife Trust’s Faan Coetzee.

Meanwhile, the Dream Team’s Andre Snyman said it was extremely suspicious that officials withheld information on the find for so long.

The team was established to curb the illegal hunting of rhino.


Cheers,

~ Alan

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Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. ~Keller

To be persuasive we must be believable; to be believable we must be credible; to be credible we must be truthful. ~ Murrow
 
Posts: 1114 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 09 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Are we talking about the same place that is/was owned by someone with the initials BR and that got caught doing a number of dodgy leopard hunts a few years ago and that the Lowvelder newspaper (and I think also Carte Blanche) ran a piece about?






 
Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002Reply With Quote
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Steve,

South Africa certainly has got a lot to answer for?

Another thing that really concerns us here is the number of unqualified PH's from South running around the bush in their khaki nappies.

Still you have to blame the client. Why would you book a hunt in Zambia whilst in Mozambique with a South African who lives in Australia?


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Posts: 10005 | Location: Zambia | Registered: 10 April 2009Reply With Quote
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Mate, when you get to our age, almost every bugger looks like they should be in nappies! jumping

As for unqualified as we both know, having the licence and having the experience and knowledge are very different things and it becomes really evident just about the time the rubber hits the road. Roll Eyes

Cover hunting can take care of the legalities but the only thing that takes care of the other issues is spending time at the sharp end. Smiler






 
Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
Steve,

South Africa certainly has got a lot to answer for?

Another thing that really concerns us here is the number of unqualified PH's from South running around the bush in their khaki nappies.

Still you have to blame the client. Why would you book a hunt in Zambia whilst in Mozambique with a South African who lives in Australia?


Sadly, I have to agree with you.

There are far too many South Africans claiming to be PHs, operating in different countries, that seem to give a very bad impression about their countrymen.

I find this to be extremely annoying.

As I know, and have hunted, with a number of PHs from South Africa who were nothing but professional in everything they did.

And I would gladly hunt with them again, and recommend them without any hesitation.


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quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
Steve,

South Africa certainly has got a lot to answer for?

Another thing that really concerns us here is the number of unqualified PH's from South running around the bush in their khaki nappies.

Still you have to blame the client. Why would you book a hunt in Zambia whilst in Mozambique with a South African who lives in Australia?


Sadly, I have to agree with you.

There are far too many South Africans claiming to be PHs, operating in different countries, that seem to give a very bad impression about their countrymen.

I find this to be extremely annoying.

As I know, and have hunted, with a number of PHs from South Africa who were nothing but professional in everything they did.

And I would gladly hunt with them again, and recommend them without any hesitation.


And I agree with you. Some of the finest hunters on the continent are from the South. However many pretenders are tainting the industry and are simply not qualified.

Someone is going to get hurt.


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Posts: 10005 | Location: Zambia | Registered: 10 April 2009Reply With Quote
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TOO RIGHT!!! clap

Saeed and fairgame nailed it!! Been there and got the T-shirt to prove it.


Mike
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Posts: 3577 | Location: Silicon Valley | Registered: 19 November 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
However many pretenders are tainting the industry and are simply not qualified.

Someone is going to get hurt.


Ain't that the truth..... many are from SA but there's also a few out there from elsewhere and sooner or later, someone's gonna get bitten in the arse big time.






 
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quote:
Originally posted by shakari:
quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
However many pretenders are tainting the industry and are simply not qualified.

Someone is going to get hurt.


Ain't that the truth..... many are from SA but there's also a few out there from elsewhere and sooner or later, someone's gonna get bitten in the arse big time.


Hope it ain't 'one of us'


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Posts: 10005 | Location: Zambia | Registered: 10 April 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
Hope it ain't 'one of us'


We must all be allowed to go to hell in our own way and I figure those things are none of my business.

I do feel sorry for the poor unsuspecting clients who are also liable to be involved in whatever future debacles are bound to happen with some of these guys though.






 
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It is a sad sad reflection on the industry. So many have so little knowledge that it is fairly easy to spot them. A few simple questions, names of browsed and grazed species, what eats them and at what time of year. Names of trees and birds, gestatation periods and so on, then start yelling for a change of "P H." Cool


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Posts: 3297 | Location: South of the Equator. | Registered: 02 August 2009Reply With Quote
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I thought Letaba Ranch was a privately run hunting ranch just outside of KNP???


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Posts: 38477 | Location: Gainesville, TX | Registered: 24 December 2006Reply With Quote
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DA wants probe into rhino slaughter

Johannesburg - The Democratic Alliance on Friday called on Environment Minister Edna Molewa to launch an investigation following the discovery of 18 decomposing rhino carcasses on the border of the Kruger National Park.

"Notwithstanding an investigation by Limpopo officials, I have... written to the minister... asking her to instigate an inquiry, as well into who is responsible for these poaching incidents," DA environment spokesperson Gareth Morgan said in a statement.

The investigation should also seek to establish how such a "rhino grave" could have gone unnoticed for so long, he said.

Earlier on Friday, Limpopo's department of tourism announced it would mount a "high-level" investigation after the discovery of 18 rhino carcasses at Letaba Ranch on the western border of the KNP.

The horns of the animals - estimated to have been killed between 2005 and 2008 - had been removed.

Morgan said the question that needed to be asked was whether any state employees were involved in the poaching.

"How could no-one have discovered this grave previously, if it was not for the possibility that staff may have turned a blind eye to goings-on in the park, or at worst, may have been actively involved in these acts of poaching?," he asked.

Limpopo tourism spokesperson Joshua Kwapa said his department was "very disturbed" about the discovery.

"It's old carcasses. Investigations indicate that some of them have been there since 2005. Some of them are completely decomposed to a point of only bones, and all of them have been dehorned," he said.

Also on Friday, Eastern Cape police reported a rhino carcass, with the horn hacked off, was found at the Amakhala Game Reserve near Grahamstown.

Morgan said the assault by poachers on South Africa's rhino population has been relentless this year

"In fact, this year has been an 'annus horribilis' for conservation in South Africa, with approximately 270 rhinos killed thus far," he said.

- SAPA


Cheers,

~ Alan

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email: editorusa(@)africanxmag(dot)com

African Expedition Magazine: http://www.africanxmag.com/

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Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. ~Keller

To be persuasive we must be believable; to be believable we must be credible; to be credible we must be truthful. ~ Murrow
 
Posts: 1114 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 09 March 2001Reply With Quote
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The ingestion of rhino horn cuase AIDS. I thougth everyone knew that.
 
Posts: 2827 | Location: Seattle, in the other Washington | Registered: 26 April 2006Reply With Quote
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The more I think about one the odder it becomes.

In every poaching case I've ever come across, the poacher(s) want to get away from the scene of the crime as quickly as possible. They'll take the pieces they want, bale out and leave the rest of the animal to be cleaned up by the scavengers.

In this case, it sounds like someone has gone to the trouble of moving a fair number of entire rhino carcasses to one spot...... and moving just one entire rhino carcass, let alone 17, is real mission.

Seems to me that a more likely scenarion might be something like was (allegedly) happening on the Groenawand farm where live rhinos were being bought, transported and then slaughtered.

Either way, I suspect one unforeseen consequence of this upsurge in poaching is going to be tightened/reduced sport hunting quotas for schedule I animals at the very least........ and possibly even a total halt on some if not all sport hunted trophies.

The quote from the 2nd article that says:

"It also quoted CITES import data as saying Vietnam only imported 38 rhino horns since 2006 whereas South Africa has said it exported 268 to Vietnam in the same period".

Could very easily be used by countries such as Kenya for the argument that if CITES can't keep track of what's going on then no-one can and therefore a cessation of ALL movement is called for.

I obviously hope I'm wrong but I'd bet a pound to a pinch of the brown stuff that the next COP meeting in 2013(?) is going to be an 'interesting' one.






 
Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by .458Aubs:
Nothing other than MURDER, these gooks should be hung on morning live tv


With as much respect as I can muster, kindly fuck off with the racial slurs, if you please, sir. I'd appreciate it, as will every man, I'd wager, who judges men by their actions, as opposed to his particular genetic/ethnic make up.


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Posts: 2897 | Location: Boston, MA | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Bunn:

Nelspruit - Limpopo officials have discovered a rhino cemetery containing 17 rhino carcasses at the Letaba Ranch, on the western border of the Kruger National Park.


Steve or Aaron or Aubrey or somebady who knows,

What is Letaba Ranch? I thought it was a private ranch outside of KNP?

Is this correct???


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House

No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.
 
Posts: 38477 | Location: Gainesville, TX | Registered: 24 December 2006Reply With Quote
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Lane,

I'm fairly sure there are several places with the same name in the area so I'm not sure which one they're referring to..... there's even a Letaba Camp in the KNP.

My guess is it's one of the areas adjoining the KNP that you access by turning onto the dirt road just before you get to the Kruger gate.

I could be wrong though and sorry I can't be more accurate...... I will however try to find time to make a few phone calls tomorrow and try to find out more.






 
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Originally posted by shakari:
Lane,

I'm fairly sure there are several places with the same name in the area so I'm not sure which one they're referring to..... there's even a Letaba Camp in the KNP.

My guess is it's one of the areas adjoining the KNP that you access by turning onto the dirt road just before you get to the Kruger gate.

I could be wrong though and sorry I can't be more accurate...... I will however try to find time to make a few phone calls tomorrow and try to find out more.


I know there are hunting reports on this site from a ranch bordering KNP called Letaba Ranch. I believe that Aaron Neilson books for that ranch. Was just curious if that is the same place the rhino carcasses were found???

Here is a link to a report I found:

http://forums.accuratereloadin...451012331#5451012331


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House

No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.
 
Posts: 38477 | Location: Gainesville, TX | Registered: 24 December 2006Reply With Quote
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Lane,

'Fraid I have no idea on that..... I guess Aaron would be the best one to comment on that though.






 
Posts: 12415 | Registered: 01 July 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Kamo Gari:
quote:
Originally posted by .458Aubs:
Nothing other than MURDER, these gooks should be hung on morning live tv


With as much respect as I can muster, kindly fuck off with the racial slurs, if you please, sir. I'd appreciate it, as will every man, I'd wager, who judges men by their actions, as opposed to his particular genetic/ethnic make up.


Sir, i just Wikipedia' the meaning and well it seems that what my definition of the word is different to the true meaning, my personal meaning is a shit eating son of a bitch and has nothing to do with race as we can see by those arrested - i appologise to those that have been offended.
 
Posts: 605 | Location: South Africa | Registered: 07 February 2008Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
Originally posted by shakari:
Lane,

I'm fairly sure there are several places with the same name in the area so I'm not sure which one they're referring to..... there's even a Letaba Camp in the KNP.

My guess is it's one of the areas adjoining the KNP that you access by turning onto the dirt road just before you get to the Kruger gate.

I could be wrong though and sorry I can't be more accurate...... I will however try to find time to make a few phone calls tomorrow and try to find out more.


I know there are hunting reports on this site from a ranch bordering KNP called Letaba Ranch. I believe that Aaron Neilson books for that ranch. Was just curious if that is the same place the rhino carcasses were found???

Here is a link to a report I found:

http://forums.accuratereloadin...451012331#5451012331


Not sure if it is the same place but the report is from an area that is on the western side of the boundary of KNP, possible that it is it, but it would be very strange that an outfitter involved in hunting in an area would not be aware of the slaughter of 17 rhino?
 
Posts: 605 | Location: South Africa | Registered: 07 February 2008Reply With Quote
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I think the shitting eating part defines it prettyy well yuck yuck some people are just sensitive to the truth and plan spoken words. got to be politically correct don't you know cant speak the truth no matter what jumping
 
Posts: 3818 | Location: kenya, tanzania,RSA,Uganda or Ethophia depending on day of the week | Registered: 27 May 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Kamo Gari:
quote:
Originally posted by .458Aubs:
Nothing other than MURDER, these gooks should be hung on morning live tv


With as much respect as I can muster, kindly fuck off with the racial slurs, if you please, sir. I'd appreciate it, as will every man, I'd wager, who judges men by their actions, as opposed to his particular genetic/ethnic make up.


With as much respect as I can muster...sir...I guess...I have 2 questions: 1) WHY...do you feel Aubrey made a racial slur??? and 2) why don't YOU lay off using the f-word on a forum children like to read? shame


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House

No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.
 
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Big Grin +1 tu2 LANE
 
Posts: 3818 | Location: kenya, tanzania,RSA,Uganda or Ethophia depending on day of the week | Registered: 27 May 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
quote:
Originally posted by .458Aubs:
Nothing other than MURDER, these gooks should be hung on morning live tv


With as much respect as I can muster, kindly fuck off with the racial slurs, if you please, sir. I'd appreciate it, as will every man, I'd wager, who judges men by their actions, as opposed to his particular genetic/ethnic make up.


With as much respect as I can muster...sir...I guess...I have 2 questions: 1) WHY...do you feel Aubrey made a racial slur??? and 2) why don't YOU lay off using the f-word on a forum children like to read?

J. Lane Easter, DVM



Agreed whole heartedly.


.
 
Posts: 42463 | Location: Crosby and Barksdale, Texas | Registered: 18 September 2006Reply With Quote
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Kamo Gari,

I think I can explain how the way .458Aubs used the word was totally different from the way that you and I generally interpret it. First here is some background from Wiktionary on its original meaning and use:


Dictionary notes

In the US, gook refers particularly to a Vietnamese person in the context of the Vietnam War, and particularly to the Viet Cong. It is generally considered highly offensive, on a par with nigger. In a highly charged and nuanced incident, Senator John McCain famously used the word publicly to refer specifically to his former captors, then apologized in deference to the Vietnamese community at large.

Folk etymology suggests that during the Korean War, young Korean children would point at U.S. soldiers and shout "미국" (mee-gook), the Korean word for "America". Soldiers heard the word as "Me Gook", as if the children were defining themselves as "Gooks." The soldiers proceeded to use that term to refer to the Koreans. The word 국 (國, gook) itself simply means "country". This explanation ignores the fact that there are many examples of the word's use that pre-date the Korean War.



There were many American Vietnam vets who served in the Rhodesian bush war, They brought the word "gook" with them, and used it to refer to the black communist terrorists. It has now become a part of the local slang and does not refer to Asians, but rather to terrorists and criminals.

Hope this 'unruffles' everyone's feathers, but no comment on the "F" factor. Cool


Cheers,

~ Alan

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Posts: 1114 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 09 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Not sure if it is the same place but the report is from an area that is on the western side of the boundary of KNP, possible that it is it, but it would be very strange that an outfitter involved in hunting in an area would not be aware of the slaughter of 17 rhino?


Aubrey: Way to speculate! YOU Asshole. How do you not know the Service Provider mentioned was not the outfitter doing a game survey? Would that make sense? Unbelievable you would insinuate something like that without having a clue.

I hunted there in May of this year. The outfitter I hunted with was hunting the Letaba for the first time (and the first time it had been hunted in many yesrs) and I seriously doubt that the unfounded shot by Aubrey is in any way true. He had a very strict quota for elephant and buffalo only. There were some incredibly large plains game but they were strictly off limits. I saw virtually no signs of poaching as compared to my 4 prior trips to Africa.

Some facts about the Letaba:
1. It is about 200,000 acres and does share a common border.
2. Up until 1994 the Letaba was a getaway for government officials. They used to have some major parties at the ranch.
3. The headquarters used to consist of a main dining/party room, several huts, an observation deck over the Letaba River with a full bar, swimming pool, etc. There were cages that housed lions and leopards as you enter the ranch. A gate guard is stationed at the ranch and we could not enter or leave without checking in with him. When I was there, the improvements were in a major state of disrepair. It was very sad to see a getaway that was once very special such a mess. A few locals live there but they hardly have the means or drive to maintain the improvements.
4. The military used to use the ranch as a training facility. We found a bunch of spent shell casing and exploded ordinance. I did find a grenade handle that had a date on it of 1974.
5. Our game scout grew up on the ranch and his father was severly mauled by a lion while living there.
 
Posts: 80 | Location: Houston, Texas | Registered: 28 January 2010Reply With Quote
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BA

I believe Johan is a hell of a nice chap and that the area is spectacular. Aaron seems to think that his area is awesome and from your report in may on the area it looks fantastic, but that is besides the point.

You are right i am speculating but asshole or not, whoever runs the concession will have a vested interest in ensuring that anti poaching operations are done properly and that would include knowing about Rhino movements in the area at all times, hell im on the Zimbabwean side of KNP and i work with KNP on a daily basis with anti poaching operations and have a considerable team of anti poaching guys who cost me a lot of money every year, and going off what the report says that the Rhino carcasses are roughly 3 years old - present day says that not much has been done in the line of ground work with anti-poaching. regarding the helicopter i have been told the KNP was doing its own survey and decided to do a fly over of Letaba and thats how this all came to light. further to my knowledge Letaba is roughly 42 000 ha = 110 000 acres and not 200 000 acres. someone in the community will know more of this, somewhere along the line someone opened their mouth at the local shabeen to someone enquiring about Rhino's on the property and thats how these guys get their information. a large majority of the Rhino shot had holes in the top of their heads = helicopter.

I will have more information later on today about this and will post what i know - stay tuned....
 
Posts: 605 | Location: South Africa | Registered: 07 February 2008Reply With Quote
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well said Aubrey. Any property that has that many carcasses on it , simply has to have known that this was going on. There is no way in hell that 17 Rhino were slaughtered without the owners/managers of the Ranch knowing about it. If one Rhino goes down in a well run property, it is a maximum of a couple of Days before the owners are aware of it. More often than not it is actually hours.

By the way, Alans comment on the GOOK description is correct. In this part of Africa a Poacher or armed criminal is often called a gook. I am sure Aubrey used it in that context rather than as a racially directed slur.

Finally, regarding the comments made by Saeed,fairgame and others on South African PHs. I too know a number of top class pros from SA. Sadly I also know a number of complete dickheads and posers. There is an extremely good article in the latest African Bowhunter by Cleve Chenney which outlines the fact that a PH can qualify in SA having done a course with only 72hrs of classroom work. That is astounding. Perhaps some of our South African Operators can comment on their feelings about this. I personally beleive there is nothing better than experience. A Zim PH goes through 3 years of Appyship before he can even go on proficiency...and even them many fail.

Comments??
 
Posts: 459 | Location: Zimbabwe | Registered: 11 May 2010Reply With Quote
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