Hi Everyone
I thought some of you would enjoy watching a Field Guide practicing with his Remington Model 700 in 458 Win Mag.
The drill as specified by Kruger Park Standards of the 80's and 90's are that the guide from a walking position with rifle slung barrel down should fire 3 aimed shots within 6 seconds hitting all three soda can size targets.
I have seen Ferdie fire 3 aimed shots in 4.5 seconds but that was when he was actively guiding and was regularly practicing.
He has fired well over 2000 rounds through this rifle without any malfunction or problems. He loads 500 gr PMP solids to 2100 fps. The rifle is a real beauty to shoot and easy to carry all day.
Enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4lUMsN2WHA 458 Win Mag Ranger Drill

If the links dont work, just search Youtube for Ferdie Muller.
His Rhino tracking vids are there too

I'd have expected him to keep the rifle up,

mounted to his shoulder while working the bolt.

Hi Jack
We actually have a comparative video of the first time I did this drill. I did what you would have and kept it on the shoulder.The long and short of it is that you cannot effectively work the bolt on the shoulder and your times will be dramatically slower.
Also if you notice. As the rifle recoils it starts coming down from the shoulder to waist level, the working of the bolt then pushes the rifle back into place.
This method is tried and tested and cannot be bettered for efficiency, smoothness of operation and ultimately speed.
Try it and if you can video it. You will see immediately what I mean. If I can I will find my video, shot with the same rifle but against the shoulder.

Thanks for the additional info!

See aimed rapid fire vids:
470 Mbogo

That answers one big question that I've had for a long time:

Does anybody work the bolt under-handed? Looks like it.

That's the way I've come to do it, and I've always thought it was faster, more reliable, and just plain better than the "over-handed thumb-finger pinch" method.

I've always done it that way. Didn't know anyone did it differently...

VLAM
How far away are the targets Dave

Hi Dave
10 m is the standard three in a row
Second option is staggered from 15 m down to 5.
I think that may have been the case in the video. Cant remember now though.

The video shows rapid fire ,and a good dexterity with the rifle ,but its faster with the rifle on shoulder .Here in Argentina we conduct monthly practical rifle shooting with bolt actions,and we tested the system a lot ,found thats faster with the rifle on shoulder ,Iteach my pupils to always mantain the stock in shoulder ,even when they are resting they mantain the stock on shoulder and the gun down pointed ,low ready is faster and permits looking at the target before traget adquisition ,high ready obstructs the view of the hostile ,ISAWMANY GUIDES GO AFTER A DANGEROUS GAME HIGH READY ,THIS IS TOTALLY INCORRECT .Ok my point is stock on shoulder and low ready position searching.Juan

Hi Juan
I think your situation is very different to mine.
This is a guides drill showing what is used and has been proven to be the fastest method to fire a light weight heavy recoiling DG rifle from a walking position. Field Guides carry their rifles for the entire day and often for an entire lifetime without firing a shot.

With a small caliber rifle of heavy weight and on a flat area then yes you may be able to beat the stopwatch. But in a true African situation where you will meet an often unprovoked charge at short range this is the quickest method to fire a well aimed first shot at an appraching target. Remember this is not a bunch of guys going out looking for trouble as seen in the DVD's with rifle at the ready, this is trouble looking for you and coming when you dont expect it.

After watching the video of the 470 Mbogo I will also say that while the man in question has got some great skills with his rifle, he is shooting at a distant target in a roughly straight line and has clearly practiced this many times before in the same level elevated peice of ground. This would not be possible from a walking position and I dare say that some of the video clips that are not published will show the rifle but shifting on the shoulder and having problems in pulling the bolt back fully once the but shifts over the shoulder joint. Further to that most guides are using CZ 602 or 550 actions which have a very long action and require the bolt to be drawn a lot further back than most calibers. From a shouldered poistion you only have som much pull in a rearward motion. Further to that were you to experience a jam you would then be unable to forcefully remove the obstruction as you don't have any power in your lifted arm to do so.

I will conclude by saying that yes you can beat the times shooting on a range, but in a real life situation where the animal may often come from strange angles and with little or no warning while you conduct a trail with a group of scared people n your protection; there is only one way to handle your rifle, and that is the way that was tested in the Kruger Park for 20 years by men like Cleve Cheney who held themselves to the highest standards and would not have let something like this pass were it not the absolute best way to carry the rifle and to fire rapidly, repeateadly, relaibly and accurately. Maintaining good form is paramount to successful shooting, something which you cannot do reliably with one arm sticking out and a heavy rifle acting as a pendulum.

If you would like more insight into the men who pioneered and tested these techniques in real life situations then please go and have a look at http://www.trailsranger.com/html/introduction.html

This will give you an insight into the standards that were set by these men, men who spent lifetimes in the bush and who often shot much more dangerous game in the course of duty and culling programs than many PH's would.

Either way I leave it up to each person to make up their own mind. But the facts obtained by years of training and reserach in the bush are what I will choose over a few rehearsed trap shooting contests. No offence, but I dont want people getting hurt by going on advice that may have been conclusive at the time but which pales in significance to the more exhaustive testing that has been done in real life situations on real dangerous game. The kind that not only fights back, but hat comes after you if you dont kill it.

For those of you who enjoy Cleve Cheneys work, please dont hesitate to buy his African Bush Sklills series, it is the kind of stuff that you really need to know when coming to Africa.
Good Hunting
Ian

The only thing I wonder about is the time to get the first shot off. IE. having to chamber for the first shot. Also carrying none up would give one more chance of a jam not allowing even getting one shot away, I would have thought??

Jal
Yes this is true, but as mentioned this is the carry position for a trails guide. Not used in hunting situation. It is too risky for a trails guide to conduct trails with a round in the chamber as he is constantly amoungst groups of people numbering up to 5 and spends hours on the trail with them.
In thw case where a guide senses that there may be a situation brewing he will then chamber a round and have his rifle at the ready whilst directing his backup to guide the guests oput of danger while he the trail leader confronts the problem. Once the situation escalates to this point the guide is ready to shoot and if not in direct danger will have the rifle resting on the hip while pointng at the target and using his other arm to direct guests and possibly hold on to any trails participants that may be inclined to run. This is especially true in the case of an unexpected lion encounter as a roaring lion can scare the sense out of even the bravest participant. It has happened before that a guide has had to trip a trails participant, stand on their head and stand down a charging lion waiting until the last before making a shot. Nothing like a bit of pressure hey
With all this said, a good trails guide is not the one reaching for his rifle, he is the one that has read the situation properly and not walked his guests into harms way unintentionally. It is possible to have close encounters safely if you know what you are doing and you know how to read animal behavior. This is exactly why people like Ferdie and Cleve have fought for so long to have trails guides trained up to the levels that they once were as the current standards do not measure up and many of the trails guides operating today would not handle these situations. Its a starnge reality but trails guides are not even give ammunition to practice with in a lot of the big parks anymore. Sad but true
Ian

Vlam i have a great respect for african hunters and soldiers,indeed i want to go there and try lo learn your techniques,of shooting tracking ,and hunting,i love AFRICA and in the past we have some some RECCES here teaching our people,one of them a BOER AS ITS STATED IN THE BOOK comandos en accion offered to figth for us in the falklands war.
But in dangerous terrain i follow the advice of my friend DON HEATH i always carry the rifle in condition one and low ready ,in a resting manner ,or at least in rhodesian ready ,my main rifle training is from the military where i carried a heavy FAL long distances ,but always in condition one.Here CZs are one of the most pouplars rifles among guides too,and you are correct with the long actions its difficult to work the rifle from shoulder,im left handed and i work the bolt with my rigth hand easily as im trained to never relase the trigger hand during military training -more easy with m4s than fals-today i train hundreds of cops a year in pistol ,shotgun and rifle ,but of course rapid fire bolt action isnt studied by them.Thanks for your lessons and we will be in contact ,perhaps i can send you some photos training here .Juan

Hi Juan
Agreed 100%. Especially with the FAL. I have great respect for the weapon. With the pistol grip it is very comfortable to carry at low ready.

On the videos, my comments are restricted to Field Guiding and Walking Trails where the objective is to avoid confrontation. In hunting situation I agree that one up with safety on and rifle at low ready is the best way to enter a confrontation.

I have seen a guy do as you do working the bolt with the opposite hand, it is surprisingly fast if you have a strong enough wrist.

I look forward to meeting up some day, I dare say I could learn quite a lot from you on the military side of things. As an Honorary officer doing some anti poaching work in the parks in SA I will hopefully be issued with an R1 (FAL COPY). My father used them during his time on the border and doesn not like the new issue R4, which they have consequently revoked anyway for ex military civilians.

I have a question for you. Which defensive handgun, full frame not compact would you rate highest amoung the current offerings. Looking at either 45 ACP or similar. The Glock, H&K and any of the other polymers are on the cards, some advice would be apprecaited. I want knockdown power and supreme accuracy, I am not a spary and pray tipe, I want the shots to count.

Chat soon
Ian

Ian ,i daily carry a glock model 22 40sw ,indeed i killed more hogs with it than with all my rifles and shotguns together.When i was 12 my father gave me a 1911 45acp never have a problem ,but i carry this glock since i was 27 and now im 39 ,i won a lot of ipsc matches with it ,hunted,even swimed with it .If you want a reliable ,ligth handgun to carry in the bush go to the Glock.Don Heath in Zimbawe carries a revolver ,i believe now in 41 magnum.Juan

At up to 25 yards one should not even use sights, just point and shoot, but only if your practiced and gone to the trouble to learn to point shoot..It is very fast and very accurate at up to 25 yards and with enough practice it it works like a charm at 50 yards..beyond that it gets dicy and sights are the way to go.

Did this gentleman hit what he was shooting at?

A ghost-ring sight is great for quick work.



Dutch

Dutch
Yes he did, the targets were coke cans on a sloping hill staggered at intervals of 5 m, furthest one 15 m.

Obviously this man has been practicing. That's good recovery time.

I'm having a ghost ring placed on my receiver as an additional sight to the quarter-rib. I will be practicing also.

Dutch

Yes Dutch. He trains field guides in South Africa, go check out his website www.ferdiemuller.com
I have to say though this is one of his slowest times for the drill. If he is in shape he is lightning quick.

On the sites that is a good choice. I have just built my .458 lott which will have the standard flip up v as well as a site called a blenheim site. Cant find you a picture of it but you may be able to reserach it. I was going with the ghost ring, but sight picture on the blenheim is superb and much quicker and more positive than the ghost ring.
I have yet to fire the new rifle as it is in for stock fitting, but the one I tested with it was on the money.
Good hunting
Ian

I couldn't open the video's..but had a couple of PM's on the Zim sped shoot (BTW the next shooting exam is this Sunday if you are at a loose end in Harare )

6" bull, Targets at 10, 15 and 20 yards.

One shot on each, nearest to closest, compulsory reload, and then one shot on each target closest to furthest. Maximum time with a full house score is 24 Seconds.

The record is Spike Claarsen in 11 seconds.

You can drop the rifle from the shoulder for the reload- Charlie Haley (who runs the shooting exams) is left handed and always rolls the rifle off his shoulder for a reload. And he can do this reliably in 13-14 seconds with his F.N. .458.

However, we teach and encourage appies not to drop the rifle from their shoulder during a reload- For the simple reason that one is then inclined to take ones eyes off the target. We encourage a shooter to lift his head off the stock (particularly with a magnum action rifle with a long bolt throw) but to keep his eyes on the target, and then drop head onto the stock as he closes the bolt.

In the old days, the 10 yard target was a “bobber†which bobbed down behind a “client†target and then re-appeared. This really separated those who kept the rifle in the shoulder from those who didn’t and particularly those who looked down at their rifles during the reload. Re-acquiring a moving target was much slower if you dropped the rifle. We had to change this to a static target as we couldn’t guarantee the bobber at the same speed in different venues (unlike the old days when I always took the same bobber to the proficiency exam which is where the shooting test was held - mind you , we also had a charging buff target back then!)

+1 for keeping the rifle on your shoulder for exactly the same reasons as Ganyana gives.

That is some pretty impressive shooting on that video link!!

quote:

Originally posted by Vlam:
After watching the video of the 470 Mbogo I will also say that while the man in question has got some great skills with his rifle, he is shooting at a distant target in a roughly straight line and has clearly practiced this many times before in the same level elevated peice of ground. This would not be possible from a walking position and I dare say that some of the video clips that are not published will show the rifle but shifting on the shoulder and having problems in pulling the bolt back fully once the but shifts over the shoulder joint. Further to that most guides are using CZ 602 or 550 actions which have a very long action and require the bolt to be drawn a lot further back than most calibers. From a shouldered poistion you only have som much pull in a rearward motion. Further to that were you to experience a jam you would then be unable to forcefully remove the obstruction as you don't have any power in your lifted arm to do so.

I will conclude by saying that yes you can beat the times shooting on a range, but in a real life situation where the animal may often come from strange angles and with little or no warning while you conduct a trail with a group of scared people n your protection; there is only one way to handle your rifle, and that is the way that was tested in the Kruger Park for 20 years by men like Cleve Cheney who held themselves to the highest standards and would not have let something like this pass were it not the absolute best way to carry the rifle and to fire rapidly, repeateadly, relaibly and accurately. Maintaining good form is paramount to successful shooting, something which you cannot do reliably with one arm sticking out and a heavy rifle acting as a pendulum.

Good Hunting
Ian

You speak very matter of factly about a situation that you KNOW nothing of.

I was the one that video taped the rapid fire clips on 470mbogo.com and am the subject of one of them (plus a couple bench and offhand shots, and a few penetration clips).

The video of Dave shooting the 4 pails was unrehearsed and unpracticed, and was his first and only attempt at it on the day. He had not shot his 470 Mbogo for more than 6 months prior to that day, and had NEVER practiced 4 aimed shots at water pails before. He also had a cranking headache if I remember correctly. The set up was impromptu, and done only to lay down the gauntlet (so to speak) to all the double rifle guys that claim they can outshoot a bolt rifle guy with 4 fast and accurate shots with a real big bore. We thought this up while elk hunting, and then picked up some buckets, my video camera and headed to the range one afternoon. We figured we'd put up our best time and see if anyone of the die-hard double rifle advocates here (or anywhere else on the 'net) would be game enough to try and beat it. NO ONE EVER HAS! Video of guys rapid firing their doubles is a rare and endangered thing. I know a couple guys here have taken the video, but it has not made it to this website that I am aware of.

You are correct on one count, however, he is very skilled with that firearm.

The video of me shooting 3 times quickly at a pie plate was the first time I had ever shot 3 rapid fire shots out of a rifle bigger than a 375 H&H.

I am no expert on this subject but I am an advocate of keeping your rifle to your shoulder when cycling the bolt. I have video of my self pumping three quick rounds into a cape buffalo using that method, will have to dig it up....although the quality is somewhat poor (the guy on the camera didn't zoom on the buffalo, so its hard to see).

Cheers,
Canuck

ps: how far away are the "pop can sized targets" in that video, and did he hit all three?

The "double rifle gays" may be difficult to motivate into trying something and posting the video, but Dave and I aren't.

Canuck
Fair enough, he is good enough with his rifle to look well practiced then. But it still stands that he is shooting roughly in a straight line. The off the shoulder method was proven by guys who were guiding in the Kruger National Park. The bottom line is that when you are engaging targets at close range with a bolt gun this method works because it allows you the mobility needed to position yourself infront of the danger and between your guests and the danger. It is very rarely that a guide gets a second shot at the target, so the two follow up shots are there for the purpose of familiarizing yourself with the rifle feel and the workings of the action. Your first aimed shot is the one you wait for and which you don't fire until the animal breaks your comfort barrier. Usually about 5-10 feet, 1 shot at the brain. This is especially true of big male lion as they always stop when challenged and almost never need to be shot. They often charge right to within 5 feet of you and then stop in a cloud of dust and give a throaty barking roar. This is usually the point at which the weaker tourists may either fall over or try to make a run, it is then the backups job to trip them up, stand on their head and hopefully be ready to staop a charge if the leader was not able to with his first shot.
This is all however almost irrelevant as most lion will break their charge at the sound of the bolt being slammed open.

Anyway, the reserach says that with practice the best technique is off the shouler. I noted that it was mentioned that some people then think you need to take your eye off the target. This is not true, this technique is completely opposed to that and is built on force of habit. You practice so ofetn that you will be in complete auto pilot throughout and focused on the danger. No looking at your rifle and that is exactly why it is the safest and quickest way as you will never have issues with trying to fight against a rifle slipping out of position or a jammed bolt. The rifle feeds naturally at your side and will do so reliably if you have practiced the motion. Stroking a bolt staright back is always going to be more effective than trying to work it with an arm that is only able to pull back form an oblique angle.

Anyway, freedom of choice, go wild with your rifle wherever you please, I know where I will have mine.
Good hunting
Ian

By the way, yes he did hit all three cans and relaibly does so every time. Practice, Practice, Practice

I respect your opinion, although we do not see things exactly the same. Not all that many people seem to put much effort or time into the subject, so you have to respect anyone that has.

quote:

By the way, yes he did hit all three cans and relaibly does so every time. Practice, Practice, Practice

You did not say what the distance was? Just curious what the standard is.

I read a few more of the posts above and found my answer.

I assume he is shooting furthest to closest? (if I read closer I might find that too, eh? )
Cheers,
Canuck

Ray,

Are you saying that you can hit a coke can at 25 yards without using your sights?

Or brain an animal at 50 yards?

And do you have a video of this?

I assume you have custom fitted stocks!

Andy

quote:

Originally posted by Andy:
Ray,

Are you saying that you can hit a coke can at 25 yards without using your sights?

Or brain an animal at 50 yards?

And do you have a video of this?

I assume you have custom fitted stocks!

Andy

I once hit a Dodge Dart when shooting a 12 ga. riot gun from the hip.

I would think that the most important thing is probably practice, and to be confident in whatever method you use. They say practice makes perfect. The shouldered method would seem to me to be faster, as all you are doing is working the bolt, the aiming/pointing part is already half way there. I think you probably also should not be stuck in two minds as a guide, with regards to firing a warning shot on an animal that is too close and fast closing the gap on you and your clients, especially if you have a bolt rifle. However, at the same time, you probably want to do whatever you can to not kill the animal, but you probably don't want to be caught short with an open bolt and a freight train closing in. The ideal rifle is probably a double, where you can maybe fire a warning shot, which might put the fear of God into the animal and change it's mind...or not and still have the insurance and time for a second shot... you hope. If there is more than one determined enraged animal bearing down on you, you probably have problems either way.

I only want to say a couple of things more ,Vlam a good method when you have innocent people running or grabbing you is to have the trigger hand secure and prepared to fire with one hand and another to hand-off the civilians that can be panicked and tried to grab you ,we even use a strike with the skin between the bigger finger and the trigger finger that dont cause permanent damage ,of course this is easier with an m4 or mp5 ,but i did it with mycz308 and mossberg590.
The another matter is that and RAY ,dont be upset but i disagree with you totally YOU MUST ALWAYS USE THE SIGTHS AT LEAST THE FRONT SIGTH ,ALWAYS,EVEN IF YOU ARE SHOOTING RUNNING YOU MUST USE THE FRONT SIGTH OR YOU WILL MISS EVEN AT SHORT DISTANCES ,ONLY IN COMBAT TRAINING WE POINT SHOOT IN CQB ,INSIDE BUILDINGS.
But hunting trying to stop a DG hostile I ALWAYS FOLLOW JEFF COOPERS ADVICE ,I BELIEVE MY FRIEND GANYANA AGREES WITH ME.Juan

Saying that you can't effectively reload a heavy rifle from the shoulder is simply incorrect.

You must learn how to to it. Jeff Copper wrote about it extensively and it is still taught.

It is all the bolt flick called a reflexive bolt throw. Once learned it is much faster in both the bolt throw and it keeps the weapon on target.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
Saying that you can't effectively reload a heavy rifle from the shoulder is simply incorrect.

You must learn how to to it. Jeff Copper wrote about it extensively and it is still taught.

It is all the bolt flick called a reflexive bolt throw. Once learned it is much faster in both the bolt throw and it keeps the weapon on target.

+1 fo' sho'. That is how I learned...From the moment the rifle is brought to, until the query is poked with the end of the barrel and the congratulatory backslapping begins...

Brian

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
However, we teach and encourage appies not to drop the rifle from their shoulder during a reload-

Ganyana Sir, could you please clear this up for me. Are you talking here of reloading the magazine at the shoulder??

Hi JAL

For clarification- when re-filling the magazine, the quickest method is to drop the rifle to belt level with the action in line with the cartridge holder. ie- shortest distance between belt and mag. With a short round like a .458 in a standard action it is possible to grab three rounds from the belt and stuff them all into the mag in one movement. Same goes for CZ.550's in .458 Lott and .375 (although I personally have never been able to do more than two rounds at a go). When teaching though we force candidates to re-fill the magazine whilst watching the targets (on the exam they can do what they like), but- it is a vital life skill to always watch the animal and never the rifle.

What I was refering to above is keeping your eyes on the target when cycling the bolt. With a standard length action you don't actually need to break your cheek weld during the cycle. With a longer action, I find I need to lift my head off the stock or I tend to clip my nose with my hand. (mind you, I am only 5'9") and prefer a shorter stock to an overly long one.

No technique is "wrong" - especially if it works for you. Many left handers (eg Scott Guthrie and Andy hunter) do a complex swap of hands and cycle the bolt right handed and then swop back.- they are both very fast. My Father is left handed and never drops the rifle. He lifts the bolt with his thumb and closes it with the web between thumb and index finger - then pushing the bolt the last fraction home with the index finger.

There is a ruger No 1 in .375 that turns up every couple of years in the hands of a new appie- many can manage times safely under 20 seconds for the speed shoot. It is what you practice and feel comfortable with- but remember never to look at the rifle between shots!

Ganyana ,im left handed ,i never release the trigger hand ,i reload with my rigth hand ,very easy for me because during my year in the army ,they teach me to open doors,release traps ,and even attend injured personnel always pointing my gun to he hostiles ,recently in a refresher course with M4 ,this was enforced .For reloading ammo in my czs i put 3 while stock in shoulder and muzzle depressed ,i believe this technique respect your teachings ,and in our frequent discussions i agree with you 100 percent ,your training is very similar to our training ,i even carry my fal in condition one ,but a shorther version than you not, a the heavy barreled Fal .I hope to train under your tutelage there some day ..Juan

quote:

Originally posted by Vlam:
After watching the video of the 470 Mbogo I will also say that while the man in question has got some great skills with his rifle, he is shooting at a distant target in a roughly straight line and has clearly practiced this many times before in the same level elevated peice of ground. This would not be possible from a walking position and I dare say that some of the video clips that are not published will show the rifle but shifting on the shoulder and having problems in pulling the bolt back fully once the but shifts over the shoulder joint. Further to that most guides are using CZ 602 or 550 actions which have a very long action and require the bolt to be drawn a lot further back than most calibers. From a shouldered poistion you only have som much pull in a rearward motion. Further to that were you to experience a jam you would then be unable to forcefully remove the obstruction as you don't have any power in your lifted arm to do so.

I will conclude by saying that yes you can beat the times shooting on a range, but in a real life situation where the animal may often come from strange angles and with little or no warning while you conduct a trail with a group of scared people n your protection; there is only one way to handle your rifle, and that is the way that was tested in the Kruger Park for 20 years by men like Cleve Cheney who held themselves to the highest standards and would not have let something like this pass were it not the absolute best way to carry the rifle and to fire rapidly, repeateadly, relaibly and accurately. Maintaining good form is paramount to successful shooting, something which you cannot do reliably with one arm sticking out and a heavy rifle acting as a pendulum.

Good Hunting
Ian

Hi Ian
Canuck has already cleared up your misconceptions of the 470 Mbogo video. But I thought I would also mention the fact that the rifle is a CZ 550 and the cartridge being fired generates 95 ft lbs of recoil. The target distance was aprox 30 yards. That rifle range is about 500 miles from where I shoot. Canuck was correct about the headache also. Shooting and reloading from the shoulder can be very fast if practiced. I don't really think it would make much difference if the targets were on the ground in front of a person or as the targets were on the 470 Mbogo video. Recoil is going to take you off your sight picture and you have to re-gain your sight picture. With the rifle at your shoulder you can get back on target during reloading.
Take care,
Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
When teaching though we force candidates to re-fill the magazine whilst watching the targets (on the exam they can do what they like), but- it is a vital life skill to always watch the animal and never the rifle.


No technique is "wrong" - especially if it works for you. Many left handers (eg Scott Guthrie and Andy hunter) do a complex swap of hands and cycle the bolt right handed and then swop back.- they are both very fast. My Father is left handed and never drops the rifle. He lifts the bolt with his thumb and closes it with the web between thumb and index finger - then pushing the bolt the last fraction home with the index finger.

There is a ruger No 1 in .375 that turns up every couple of years in the hands of a new appie- many can manage times safely under 20 seconds for the speed shoot. It is what you practice and feel comfortable with- but remember never to look at the rifle between shots!

Ganyana,

Thanks for the info, I looked at one of my videos, I am definitely taking my eye off the target during reload, I will work on that this weekend.

But you did touch on two of my favorite subjects, left handers and Ruger No. 1s.





26 days and leaving for the Selous

Hi Dave
I challenge you to a duel...
No seriously I think this is something worth further investigation.
I am going on long standing wisdom from the Kruger Park as taught to guides, but there is an overwhelming number of people teaching it differently, so maybe there is something to be learned.
What I propose is that if you are ever in South Africa, preferably KZN I will arrange a shoot, supply the video equipment, accommodation and 2 competitors from the off the shoulder school. You provide the two from the on the shoulder school.
We can run a series of tests both hunting and guiding related situations and then publish the results here on AR.
To make it fair there should be at least 1 practice session per month as a minimum standard firing no less than 20 rounds at a session.

Rifles I can supply from my side are
1. .375 H&H CZ 602
2. .458 WIN MAG Rem 700
3. .458 Lott Custom on Vektor Action

This gives us a long a short and a mid length action to play with.

We could also film several other carry options and do some time trials for bringing the gun to bear etc. All time measurements etc will be done using video time code only so no chance of getting it wrong.

If you keen, lets start making plans.
Chat soon
Ian