I hope that no one objects to this post; however, I want to get a centerfire for my great granddaughter
(6yrs) and do not know how to begin. Thinking about a 257 roberts, or, a 7x57 if it can be downloaded to 257 power. Don't want to buy a rifle that cannot be taken to africa and used on pg. feel free to chime in with your thoughts.

Since you mention Africa--make it the 7 X 57 between the two you listed.

Built .257 Ackley's as my boys' first Texas deer rifles (120gr).

The 7 X 57 has the ability to use light and heavy bullets.
(Another good choice for ammo availability is the .308, common, utilitarian and efficient.)

I'll mention the 6.5 x 55 before anyone else does!

I'll start a fre storm. 30-06 and put a removable break on it.

She will learn quicker and be a better shooter if you start her on a rimfire. Something non paper and reactive for a target makes shooting much more interesting. I use spinners, balloons,
Full soda cans ,etc. You can find lot of 22s you can buy cheaply and cut down to fit her.

I agree with beginning with a rimfire, I was referring to when she upgrades to a centerfire.

You could do the .30-06 as DOJ suggested and use the "managed recoil loads" to start. Lots of other good suggestions here.

remember that she will be 6 yrs when she beginns with a centerfire and do not want something that she will not be comfortable shooting. I am 68 and, if she continunies hunting, will probably inherit my rifles

quote:

Originally posted by Bryan Chick:
remember that she will be 6 yrs when she beginns with a centerfire and do not want something that she will not be comfortable shooting. I am 68 and, if she continunies hunting, will probably inherit my rifles

When my oldest daughter moved up from a rimfire to a centerfire it was to a .22-250. Easy round to shoot.

You could do a .22 centerfire and then move up to a heavier round when she is older. I mean, what's one more rifle in the grand scheme of things?

Edit: A couple of folks here, including JudgeG, have posted of using the 7.62x39 for your purposes. Not sure it is any lighter than the managed recoil .30-06 loads though.

I'd start her on a .22 CF probably a 222 or 223. Six years old is still a fairly small and impressionable child and shooting big calibres could well put her off down the line.

With the .22 CF's she will be able to build a library of sight pictures and the ability to shoot at the longer ranges while allowing her to start shooting varmits Cyotes etc before progressing to a deer calibre.

If it absolutely has to be a deer load, (6mm+) then I would look at any of the BR calibres in 6mm or 6.5mm or the 6x47Lapua which allow for a small charge light recoil and still launch a bullet that can drop deer sized game.

Let us know what you come up with in conclusion.

FB

I'm with Fallow Buck on the .223 cal. It's loud, so she gets used to the noise, but no recoil. I take one every year and use it on pygmy antelope up to Impala. Put 60 grain Nosler Partitions in it. Let her take Springbok to start. Perfect round for that and cheap trophy fees.
LDK

quote:

Originally posted by Bryan Chick:
I hope that no one objects to this post; however, I want to get a centerfire for my great granddaughter
(6yrs) and do not know how to begin. Thinking about a 257 roberts, or, a 7x57 if it can be downloaded to 257 power. Don't want to buy a rifle that cannot be taken to africa and used on pg. feel free to chime in with your thoughts.

Get her a 308 that "FITS" and start her off with Remington's 308 "Managed Recoil" Ammo until she can handle more.

.257 or 6.5 low recoil and affective if used properly.

Brett

Without a doubt, .223. Popular in SA and has been widely used on many game animals. I know that the guy who currently holds three of the top 10 RW impala has taken them all with a .223 behind the shoulder.
Good bullets will do the job on all of our game up to Kudu. Not wildebeest or Eland though.

Something to thin about will also be to protect her ears, especially in the beginning as most hunters who flinch do so due to fair of the pain associated with hearing trauma, not rifle recoil.
Good luck
Ian

Have to agree with the .22 calibers. Knocking the snot out of a little kid isn't conducive to future shooting. I know the deer sized calibers don't hardly kick to us, but to someone who only weighs 60 lbs. it's quite a different experience. I've seen 9 year old boys scared to death of a 308. She's only 6, give her some time before stepping up. my.02

6 years old is too young and too little

if you are looking for an excuse to buy another rifle, go buy one and don't abuse your granddaughter.

I've seen my fill of grandpa's piss and moan at their grand kids at the range.

One of the most important considerations is fitting the rifle to the shooter.

I would suggest a common brand of short action rifle (Winchestershots/Remington). Get several inexpensive stocks and fit them to her as she grows.

Select a medium powered variable scope that compliments the rest of the rifle.

Since you asked about caliber that will work in Africa, I would suggest .260, with a 7-08 or a .308 as additional choices. Any can be loaded with lighter bullets and a lower velocity to make recoil manageable. The .260 will allow the lightest bullets and the least recoil to start.

As she grows and learns to tolerate recoil, full power loads will allow her to take PG with confidence. Great bullets are available in 6.5mm (.260).

Total gun weight is also important. Young shooters should have a rifle that allows concentration on making the shot, not struggling to hold the rifle up.


MV

The length and heft of the gun is the biggest problem for a small shooter. Since either a 7x57 or a .257 usually requires a full-length action, I would suggest selecting a cartridge that will fit in a "medium" (some say "short") action. From a practical perspective, this includes those cartridges based on the .308 Winchester case.

Assuming that you will handload for this gun (no child, grandchild, or I pray great-grandchild of mine should ever suffer the indignity of having to shoot factory loads), I would suggest going all the way to the .308 Winchester. With this versatile cartride you can load 100 grain bullets down to .30 Carbine speeds that will shoot accurately for practice; you can load 125 grain spitzers just a little faster which make good whitetail medicine; and you can boost it up with 150 or even 165 grain premium bullets that are ample for the largest African plains game.

Make sure the stock fits -- it should not only be short enough, but children need the highest cheekpiece possible to place their small faces in line for the scope; also mount the scope as low as possible and use a low or medium magnification scope which has a broad "eye box" enabling a neophyte shooter to acquire the sight picture more easily; and use a very light barrel contour with a barrel no longer than 20" because any gun is going to be muzzle-heavy for a short-armed child.

At 6 YO, a 22 rimfire is the best place to start. A good 22 will stay with her for life and she will enjoy shooting it. When she is about 10-13 years old, if she is ready, a .243 or 7x57 would be about right.

John

I'm with Will BB gun at most at age 6

Bryan

You may have already done this, but I would starther out with a bolt action 22LR.

Then have her shoot a 222 or 223 bolt rifle for a while.

Yhen I would get her a 308 bolt rifle.

She should start hunting with either Remingtons 125gr Managed Recoil, or Federals 170gr Low Recoil load.

I have killled deer and pigs with both, and my nephew has killed deer, igs and a turkey with the Remingtom load.

It kicks less than a 243 and they are more effective on bigger game IMHO.

I would start her out with a scope in the 1.5to 5 power range, as I have seen some kids having a hard time finding the game in the scope if it is too powerful.

Her rifles should be light and short, thus easy for her to handle.

Wow, lots of negative thoughts on youth and centerfires.

Both my boys were shooting shotguns , pistols and rifles at age six , they were not giants.

I've worked with a lot of other youth , including small girls.

Besides , I do not recall Bryan saying the six year old was immediately going to start shootings 250 gr Barnes originals stuffed on top of proof house loads (an exaggeration ,I know)

He did in fact say She would work with 22 rimfires to start. Practice with a reduced recoil load in a properly fitted rifle in .308, 7-08,6.5 X55 etc, will not dissuade any motivated child that I have ever worked with.

Un- motivated kids--yep.

We're not talking about handing her a an old 12 guage and having her set it off. ( another bit of mild exaggeration).

I stared my boys on the .257 because I liked the round. in retrospect, a more versatile choice would have beem a 6.5, or a 7 X57 or a .308; particularly when Plains Game enters the picture.

If she is particularly small a starter in 257 or 6mm would work.

BTW, he did not indicate she was going to Africa this year, or did I miss that too?

So much for the Anti-Devil's Advocate stance.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Bore Boar Hunter:
At 6 YO, a 22 rimfire is the best place to start. A good 22 will stay with her for life and she will enjoy shooting it. When she is about 10-13 years old, if she is ready, a .243 or 7x57 would be about right.

John

Very sensible advice! It's either that or a 458Lott

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
Wow, lots of negative thoughts on youth and centerfires.

Both my boys were shooting shotguns , pistols and rifles at age six , they were not giants.

I've worked with a lot of other youth , including small girls.

Besides , I do not recall Bryan saying the six year old was immediately going to start shootings 250 gr Barnes originals stuffed on top of proof house loads (an exaggeration ,I know)

He did in fact say She would work with 22 rimfires to start. Practice with a reduced recoil load in a properly fitted rifle in .308, 7-08,6.5 X55 etc, will not dissuade any motivated child that I have ever worked with.

Un- motivated kids--yep.

We're not talking about handing her a an old 12 guage and having her set it off. ( another bit of mild exaggeration).

I stared my boys on the .257 because I liked the round. in retrospect, a more versatile choice would have beem a 6.5, or a 7 X57 or a .308; particularly when Plains Game enters the picture.

If she is particularly small a starter in 257 or 6mm would work.

BTW, he did not indicate she was going to Africa this year, or did I miss that too?

So much for the Anti-Devil's Advocate stance.

Not saying that centerfires are a bad thing at all, but it will be able to teach the fundamentals better on a 22. How the rifle is mounted, stance, etc. Young bodies can be damaged by recoil, especially if form is poor. Most states have minimum age for hunting big game, thats the point where you should start for big game calibers.

I started at age 7 with a single shot bb gun, It taught me the basics pretty well, and didn't perform any unnecessary spine adjustment.

John

quote:

Edit: A couple of folks here, including JudgeG, have posted of using the 7.62x39 for your purposes. Not sure it is any lighter than the managed recoil .30-06 loads though.

If you can find an H&R in 7.62x39, it is easy to fit a youth stock on one. It virtually has no recoil and cost not much more than $200. H&R may even fit a barrel on the action from another caliber if they have a 7.62x39 in their inventory. I just had a .44 Mag barrel put on an action for $99, btw.

My daughter shot hers for a couple of years and when we went to Africa, she was more than ready for a .30/06

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
I'll start a fre storm. 30-06 and put a removable break on it.

Anyone who puts any break on a kids rifle should be flogged.

Will +1, a BB gun is all a 6 year old needs, leave the CF's and killing for later when the kid decides if they actually want to kill something on their own accord and can appreciate what they have done. I have seen so many young ie 6-9 year olds that have started hunting because a parent or grandparent "wanted" them to and later in life they have no interest in it at all becuase it really wasnt their choice in the first place. So few of the "i shot my first buck at 6" kids go on to be avid, active hunters as adults. Rather teach them a love for nature and a fascination for wild things and conservation, the hunting may or may not flow from that but at least you will have a passionate person who understands the role that hunting has to play in conserving our wildlife resources. It is a personal choice but i will hold my son back from making his first kill until he really wants to and is ready to fully participate in all aspects of the hunt, not just the trigger pulling. Just my 2 cents worth

My 6 year old daughter has learnt to shoot a cut down Ruger 10/22. And she shoots it very well now.

She can hit a pop can at 100 yards with every shot from the bench.

I loaded reduced 308 Winchester for her, and she loves shooting these. In fact, she was so happy about shotting "daddy's big gun" all her friends knew it very quickly.

Then her friends want to shoot "daddy's big gun" too.

So I laways keep a few reduced rounds for them to enjoy when they come over to shoot.

A 7x57 or 7-08 Remingon would be percet, and you can load these as low as you wish for practice.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
I'll start a fre storm. 30-06 and put a removable break on it.

Anyone who puts any break on a kids rifle should be flogged.

I hate muzzle breaks with a passion!!! Never again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

quote:

Will +1, a BB gun is all a 6 year old needs

After further consideration I agree with the addition of a single shot .22lr.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Scott450:
Will +1, a BB gun is all a 6 year old needs, leave the CF's and killing for later when the kid decides if they actually want to kill something on their own accord and can appreciate what they have done. I have seen so many young ie 6-9 year olds that have started hunting because a parent or grandparent "wanted" them to and later in life they have no interest in it at all becuase it really wasnt their choice in the first place. So few of the "i shot my first buck at 6" kids go on to be avid, active hunters as adults. Rather teach them a love for nature and a fascination for wild things and conservation, the hunting may or may not flow from that but at least you will have a passionate person who understands the role that hunting has to play in conserving our wildlife resources. It is a personal choice but i will hold my son back from making his first kill until he really wants to and is ready to fully participate in all aspects of the hunt, not just the trigger pulling. Just my 2 cents worth

I agree with Scott in this regard, but must say that kids today are in a rush for everything and there is peer pressure from all sides too.

I allowed Christopher to take his first springbuck last year at 8 years old (silenced .223 at 176 yards, off a tripod, walk & stalk) but the other 8 year old in the camp shot a Hartebeest that week!

This year (after qualifying with many requirements) I let him take his Hartebeest. (.308 with 150gr bullets reduced to 2040fps. 96 yards from a bag on a bakkie-not his favorite method!)The other boy shot a Gemsbuck!

I constantly feel I have to put on the brakes. I even ordered the Bambi dvd and made him watch it! I also encourage him to read and watch anything to do with animals, wildlife & conservation to keep things balanced. His knowledge on species at 9 years old outstrips what I knew at 21, but will the interest last? I don't want him to be all finished at 16.

I just hope that his interest is in the whole gamut of hunting and not just the shooting.....so far so good.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
6 years old is too young and too little

if you are looking for an excuse to buy another rifle, go buy one and don't abuse your granddaughter.

I've seen my fill of grandpa's piss and moan at their grand kids at the range.

C'mon Will, this is a load of BS. My father let me start shooting centerfire rifles at about age 5--.223 was my first, followed by .243 and .257 Roberts. He cut the stock down and fit a new pad on the .257 so I could hunt with it.

Anyway, I would start her out with a .222 or .223 and let her move up at her own pace. If she does well with the .22 caliber rifles, maybe a .22-250 would be a good fit??

Well, thanks for the input; I did not consider the 22's; the 243, nor the 7.63x39. Will: I suspect that you were merely being curmudgeonly: of course, taking her shooting will give me pleasure and since I do not have as much time ahead of me as I did with my children, possibly, I am speeding up the process a bit, but, I do not think that 6 is too early to transition to a centerfire. If so, then back to the rimfire.

.22lr is a must though because the rounds are cheap enough to really shoot a lot and become a good shot. When I say a lot I'mean thousands of rounds!!!!!!!

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by Bryan Chick:
I hope that no one objects to this post; however, I want to get a centerfire for my great granddaughter
(6yrs) and do not know how to begin. Thinking about a 257 roberts, or, a 7x57 if it can be downloaded to 257 power. Don't want to buy a rifle that cannot be taken to africa and used on pg. feel free to chime in with your thoughts.

If the limit is one rifle, then my vote would be the 308w. Load it with Remington's low recoil ammo and its a viable deer cartridge out to 200yds, which is damn far for a youngster. Recoil similar to a 243. Load it with full power, full bullet weight loads for when she is older and for Africa and it is good through eland.

JPK