quote:

Originally posted by Arild Iversen:
Frostbit.
The two lions our team shot at the Ekongo
Farm was young cattle killing male lions coming out of the Etosha National Park.

According to the PH´s and the farm manager on situ, they where part of a pride of five lions, most likely on a "training hunt" they said.

The offer to hunt those lions came out of the blue, as the cattle was killed the night before we came in.

Such offers to shoot PAC lions can be on a days notice the way I understood the manager.
It there are no clients on the farm when such killings occur, or no hunters like to participate in such a hunt, the manager and his staff shoot the lions them self.

The lions was not exportable as trophies, and the skin and skull belong to the farm manager.

Still it was an unexpected and very exiting manouvre for those of us that participated.

quote:

Originally posted by Arild Iversen:
Frostbit.
The two lions our team shot at the Ekongo
Farm was young cattle killing male lions coming out of the Etosha National Park.

According to the PH´s and the farm manager on situ, they where part of a pride of five lions, most likely on a "training hunt" they said.

The offer to hunt those lions came out of the blue, as the cattle was killed the night before we came in.

Such offers to shoot PAC lions can be on a days notice the way I understood the manager.
It there are no clients on the farm when such killings occur, or no hunters like to participate in such a hunt, the manager and his staff shoot the lions them self.

The lions was not exportable as trophies, and the skin and skull belong to the farm manager.

Still it was an unexpected and very exiting manouvre for those of us that participated.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Also - assuming that they have been properly permitted by the MET - Namibian problem lions are absolutely exportable.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Namibian problem lions are often, but not always, a short notice proposition. Several hunters had tried for mine in the months prior to my safari. None was successful, so the hunt went on.

The local cattlemen paid the price, as the lions killed over 60 head of cattle.

Also - assuming that they have been properly permitted by the MET - Namibian problem lions are absolutely exportable.

Mine is in my living room.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
Since Namibia issues NO trophy-hunt permits for these lions, its becomes a HUGE waste of a valuable resource. Roughly 100 lions per year are killed on the out-skirts of Etosha!!

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

Folks - A couple of things that I think would be IMPORTANT to NOTE! I do believe a GOVT AUTHORIZED PAC lion permit in Namibia is an EXPORTABLE trophy. Generally Namibia issues ONLY a handful of these per year. Certainly landowners have/do allow hunters/staff to shoot what they consider problem lions, but they are often NOT state sponsored PAC lions. If they were, an export permit would be available. I cannot speak to the total legality of this type of hunt for a visiting hunter, but Namibia does allow landowners to take lion/predator matters into their own hands. So I think often times, these landowners are simply trying to capitalize on a chance to make money, telling a client that they can shoot the lion/lions, but that they are not exportable. If no export permit is available, its not a legitimate, government allowed, PAC. Just FYI.

I have no problem with the making money part of it, that's business, and I understand. I understand protecting your stock, etc. But I do worry that if the non-hunting community/scientific community/PETA/HSUS, etc, etc. Get their hands on pictures of lions shot, like these 2 yr olds, that the surrounding circumstances WILL NOT be considered. They will simply be used to show that hunters are shooting young lions, without consideration of age structure, conservation, consideration of the current plight of the lion, etc, etc. Basically, its more ammo they can use to support their proposed uplisting of the lion to a CITES 1 animal, and to have the lion listed as an Endangered Species. Both, are something the lion hunting industry just cannot afford.

Just making a comment, nothing more. But it would seem awfully quick, that in less than 24 hrs, a PAC authorization would be granted? TIA, and they can't spell their name that fast, much less authorize a PAC.

I think a friend of mine said it best regarding the lion problem around Etosha. The pride system inside the park is full, thus often times, young males are spreading out and looking for their own territory. And old males kicked out of the pride, are doing the same thing. Since Namibia issues NO trophy-hunt permits for these lions, its becomes a HUGE waste of a valuable resource. Roughly 100 lions per year are killed on the out-skirts of Etosha!!

quote:

Originally posted by nampom:
Thank you Aaron you hit the nail a 100% on the head.

Lions on a PAC export permit from Namibia are normally hunted inside one of the rural conservancy areas, these animals are identified as problem animals due to killing of livestock or endangering human lives. A specific problem animal is identified as such and by law only this animal is aloud to be shot. Etosha lions do not fall under this category if they venture onto privately owned farm land.

If you look at these 2 links you will see what happens when the non-hunting public / newspapers reported on the 2 collared male lions shot in Namibia a while ago. The public outcry was unbelievable!

http://allafrica.com/stories/201005070460.html

http://www.namibian.com.na/ind...%5D=74563&no_cache=1

quote:

Originally posted by Kathi:
http://www.wpazambia.com/Artic...0Lion%20Hunting.html


This is an interesting link of Zambia's opinion of canned lion hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by Hallgeir Gravrok:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Namibian problem lions are often, but not always, a short notice proposition. Several hunters had tried for mine in the months prior to my safari. None was successful, so the hunt went on.

The local cattlemen paid the price, as the lions killed over 60 head of cattle.

Also - assuming that they have been properly permitted by the MET - Namibian problem lions are absolutely exportable.

Mine is in my living room.

Thats right, last time when I was hunting in Etosha Conservancy, we suddently got a permit to shoot a lion, that were exportable. We must hunt this lion on a very short notice, I did not hunt this lion because I were about to go home next morning, but another client shot a big male, on these permit.
Next year I`m going back and I have got the message that I have pri 1 when they get a permit.. And I will use it, thats for sure, I think it sems that it`s more strickt to get a import lisence to US than it`s to Norway, even if both countries are obligated by the CITES regulations.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Unfortunately, the Etosha fence, even when perfectly maintained, cannot stop a lion (much less larger game) from escaping.

It is merely a few strands of wire strung between fenceposts, and is an easy thing to slip through.

Etosha covers a vast territory. I can't imagine what it would cost to erect an effective fence - if there is such a thing. Etosha's game includes giraffe and elephant, don't forget.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:

quote:

Originally posted by Hallgeir Gravrok:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Namibian problem lions are often, but not always, a short notice proposition. Several hunters had tried for mine in the months prior to my safari. None was successful, so the hunt went on.

The local cattlemen paid the price, as the lions killed over 60 head of cattle.

Also - assuming that they have been properly permitted by the MET - Namibian problem lions are absolutely exportable.

Mine is in my living room.

Thats right, last time when I was hunting in Etosha Conservancy, we suddently got a permit to shoot a lion, that were exportable. We must hunt this lion on a very short notice, I did not hunt this lion because I were about to go home next morning, but another client shot a big male, on these permit.
Next year I`m going back and I have got the message that I have pri 1 when they get a permit.. And I will use it, thats for sure, I think it sems that it`s more strickt to get a import lisence to US than it`s to Norway, even if both countries are obligated by the CITES regulations.

And I hope that you will employ restraint if you only come across a 2-3 year old lion that is killing cattle and possibly educate the rancher on what has been learned on discussions on this forum.

As Lane said, cattle are an easily renewable resource!

The main cause of livestock-lion conflict around Etosha is the sad state of the fence which in recent years has not been maintained due to poor management and lack of interest of the park's management. 12-15 years ago, when the fence was being maintained properly, there was no conflict!

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Not sure where you are coming from on this, Bill. But a properly permitted problem lion hunt in Namibia cannot be "canned" in any way, shape or form. An MET (that is, Ministry of Environment and Tourism) permit, issued by the Minister himself, must be issued for the problem animal - and not just any animal, but THE problem animal. In my case, our hunt was monitored by the head game warden of Etosha, at every step of the way. Before we could even begin the hunt, Vaughan Fulton had to arrange for the permit to be faxed from Windhoek to the ranger station at Okaukuejo. The week we spent tracking our lion was hard core hunting. He, his brother and the females and sub-adults with them, were as wild and wary as lions can be. There are many other peculiarities involved in hunting Etosha problem lions. They are not readily understood or appreciated. I have written them down, and may publish them some day. Apart from that, I cannot say.