http://www.news24.com/SouthAfr...ng-accident-20130723


Man dies after freak hunting accident
2013-07-23 10:24




Johannesburg - A man died in a Polokwane hospital, several days after he was accidentally shot in a freak hunting accident, Beeld reported on Tuesday.

Juan Pierre Kleingeld, 24, was driving a bakkie during a hunting expedition on Friday, transporting a group of his friends, some of whom were standing in the back.

A hunting rifle discharged, and the bullet hit Kleingeld in the head, the newspaper reported.

He was rushed to the Limpopo Mediclinic in a critical state. Kleingeld died on Monday.

Police spokesperson Ronel Otto said it was not yet clear whether an existing charge of attempted murder being investigated by the police would be changed to one of murder.



- SAPA

Absolute BS. Without hearing any explantion, it will be pure negligence on someone's part.

An AD, hitting the man behind the wheel, in a moving vehicle!

Why was there a loaded firearm in/on the vehicle. It is a basic safety measure that was ignored. Was it plain ignorance or are people just plainly get slack with basic safety rules.

The sad thing is the loss of the life of a young hunter, it could have been prevented so easily.

My condolences to his family and friends

quote:

Originally posted by .366torque:
An AD, hitting the man behind the wheel, in a moving vehicle!

No such thing as an AD, every incident is negligence in some form.

Crap like that is why I'm such a radical SOB about: "muzzle down, or get out and walk". I've looked into the muzzles a few times and they look big enough to crawl into and hide.

There's no excuse for such things to happen.

As a 15y.o kid sitting in the middle of a '50 Ford p/up the guy on the R had his '06 muzzle up between us and set it off. I've been 90% deaf with ringing ears since. That's a mighty long time ago and having had to put up with this noise and deafness all these yrs has caused whole lot of misery.
George

quote:

Originally posted by Scriptus:

quote:

Originally posted by .366torque:
An AD, hitting the man behind the wheel, in a moving vehicle!

No such thing as an AD, every incidence is negligence in some form.

Very true words Sciptus

BILTONG HUNTERTS !! cant tell them anything, they know everything and sorry to say half the time have drink with them.

Terrible thing to have to happen though to anyone.

quote:

Originally posted by leopards valley safaris:
BILTONG HUNTERTS !! cant tell them anything, they know everything and sorry to say half the time have drink with them.

Terrible thing to have to happen though to anyone.

Dave very true what you say, but I also blame the owner of the property for not having rules on safety and/or not enforcing the rules. The owner of the farm should be more involved in what is happening in the hunting camp, he must make sure that the hunters understand the hunting rules and ensure that there are no drunk people in the hunting area handling rifles, I am not suggesting that the people involved was drunk, I am speaking in general. Most of the time a farm worker accompany the hunters mainly to check for wounded animals. One can hardly expect the worker to take responsibility for safety.

Unfortunately some biltong hunters are using hunting trips as a drinking weekend, the same happens with many corporate hunts. It is very sad state of affairs.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfr...t-kills-man-20130725


Hunter charged after shot kills man
2013-07-25 10:42





Johannesburg - A 63-year-old hunter accused of firing the gunshot which killed Juan-Pierre Kleingeld, 24, has appeared in a Limpopo court, Beeld reported on Thursday.

Gerhardus Johannes Wiggill appeared on Wednesday on a charge of murder, but this was changed to culpable homicide by the state prosecutor, Colonel Ronel Otto reportedly told the newspaper.

Wiggill was reportedly released on bail of R5 000 and would appear again in September.

According to Beeld, Kleingeld was driving a bakkie, with a number of people standing on the back, when a shot discharged from a .308 rifle and hit him in the head on 12 July.

He was airlifted to hospital and operated on several times, but remained in a coma until his death.

"We feel very sorry for the man and blame no one. There are no words. It was a accident," his father Aldre Kleingeld was quoted as telling the newspaper.



- SAPA

The majority here on A/R have "circled the wagons" around
another man who unintentionally shot someone in his hunting
party.

You cannot UNintentionally shoot someone. If the cartridge is in battery, YOU are in control of where the barrel points. Once the shot is fired, you are the master of its trajectory and where the bullet lands. My opinion only.

Jaco and Dave: I wholeheartedly agree with the two of you. Last month Charl and I ran across a group of South African biltong hunters during our travels that were on one big party: excessive drinking and very loud music, among other things. To me, it was disgusting. I am a believer that booze and firearms do not mix, period. I had a similar experience here in the States a few years back and I told the landowner to make the choice: either them or our group. He did and kicked the boozers out. They too were drinking in mid-day and hunting. I have no tolerance for any of that.

quote:

Originally posted by leopards valley safaris:
BILTONG HUNTERTS !! cant tell them anything, they know everything and sorry to say half the time have drink with them.(

The sad thing with this statement, and that is apart from the sadness caused by the loss of the young man's life, is that a lot of good, considerate folk get lumped together with the fu*kwits who cannot move without alcohol and have no consideration for property owners and others.
There is one aspect of the Firearm Control Bill that is not used nearly enough. Drunk and in possesion of a firearm, phone the nearest DFO and have the sod declared unfit.

It has been my belief that when the FCB was being drawn up, some of the German system could have been implemented.
http://forums.accuratereloadin...5421043/m/3441033091

quote:

The sad thing with this statement, and that is apart from the sadness caused by the loss of the young man's life, is that a lot of good, considerate folk get lumped together with the fu*kwits who cannot move without alcohol and have no consideration for property owners and others.
There is one aspect of the Firearm Control Bill that is not used nearly enough. Drunk and in possesion of a firearm, phone the nearest DFO and have the sod declared unfit.

Unfortunately you see this sort of thing all the time.

A very, very sad thing.

Regardless of what actually happened, should serve as a reminder to Be Careful Out There!!!!!

I can't see any reason to have a chambered round in a gun while riding in the back of a moving vehicle unless you've got something dangerous and wounded in the tall grass or bush. But even then the gun should always be pointing out bound from the vehicle. Carelessness, plain and simple.

quote:

Originally posted by Scriptus:

quote:

Originally posted by leopards valley safaris:
BILTONG HUNTERTS !! cant tell them anything, they know everything and sorry to say half the time have drink with them.(

The sad thing with this statement, and that is apart from the sadness caused by the loss of the young man's life, is that a lot of good, considerate folk get lumped together with the fu*kwits who cannot move without alcohol and have no consideration for property owners and others.
There is one aspect of the Firearm Control Bill that is not used nearly enough. Drunk and in possesion of a firearm, phone the nearest DFO and have the sod declared unfit.

It has been my belief that when the FCB was being drawn up, some of the German system could have been implemented.
http://forums.accuratereloadin...5421043/m/3441033091

Precisely! More than once I have had to some hard and fast talking with South African outfitters trying to book a trophy hunt as a South African. They expect me to be a drunken moron who wants to shoot an exclusive trophy at meat hunting prices from the back of a truck and will try every trick in the book to get rid of you.

Meanwhile I am willing to pay the market related price for an exclusive species and will hunt as hard, as far and as long as necessary to get a trophy of excellence. Further more I never partake in group or corporate hunts and only hunt with my wife, to avoid this kind of nonsense.

It is frustrating to be lumped into this lowly category of the brandy and biltong brigade when we follow a strict hunting ethos, and our hunting equipment from our truck right through to our rifles is the best we can afford and of high quality, we are often better equipped than the outfitter catering to international clients!

quote:

Originally posted by Balule:

quote:

Originally posted by Scriptus:

quote:

Originally posted by leopards valley safaris:
BILTONG HUNTERTS !! cant tell them anything, they know everything and sorry to say half the time have drink with them.(

The sad thing with this statement, and that is apart from the sadness caused by the loss of the young man's life, is that a lot of good, considerate folk get lumped together with the fu*kwits who cannot move without alcohol and have no consideration for property owners and others.
There is one aspect of the Firearm Control Bill that is not used nearly enough. Drunk and in possesion of a firearm, phone the nearest DFO and have the sod declared unfit.

It has been my belief that when the FCB was being drawn up, some of the German system could have been implemented.
http://forums.accuratereloadin...5421043/m/3441033091

Precisely! More than once I have had to some hard and fast talking with South African outfitters trying to book a trophy hunt as a South African. They expect me to be a drunken moron who wants to shoot an exclusive trophy at meat hunting prices from the back of a truck and will try every trick in the book to get rid of you.

Meanwhile I am willing to pay the market related price for an exclusive species and will hunt as hard, as far and as long as necessary to get a trophy of excellence. Further more I never partake in group or corporate hunts and only hunt with my wife, to avoid this kind of nonsense.

It is frustrating to be lumped into this lowly category of the brandy and biltong brigade when we follow a strict hunting ethos, and our hunting equipment from our truck right through to our rifles is the best we can afford and of high quality, we are often better equipped than the outfitter catering to international clients!

When I was still in ZA, I hunted with a group of carefully culled people. The chaff had been, so to say, winnowed.

We drank, yes. How else do you get to my favourite part of the hunt, which is sitting round the fire at night telling lies - I mean carefully and accurately remembered anecdotes of this and prior hunts. The guns were put away and everyone was mellow.

No alcohol at breakfast, lunch or out in the bush was our motto.

A friend had been out on a corporate hunt with a group where he sat on the back in a seat and was continually meanced by a rifle in the cab that was pointing at him. The owner laughed and said it was unloaded, so when they stopped and the inhabitants of the cab went to look at something and left the rifle there, he'd had enough and went to look - yep - fully loaded M96 Swede.

Careless, and stupid.

Owner of the rifle wanted to make a big thing out of someone touching his firearm without permission, but friend was in no mood for his BS.

And what can be better than a whiskey and a cigar next to an African camp fire in good company?

One never knows what someone will do & sometimes alcohol might not be a factor at all...... I sometimes suspect anti malarials (esp Larium) can momentarily cloud the mind.

Just two occasions that spring to mind was we had one client who shall remain nameless but was an ultra experienced stalker in his home country with an absolutely impeccable hunting reputation, left his rifle in the rifle rack in the dining room with a round in the chamber & the safety catch in the off position.......... That also meant he'd had it that way all the way back to camp at the very least. Another PH was actually hunting the guy & both the PH & client had no idea how it happened.

The other was another experienced hunter came out of his tent one morning with his rifle in his hand & as he walked across to the mess, he saw an impala in the bush. Before anyone could do or say anything, he upped with his rifle to look at it through the scope & intending to dry fire at it, squeezed the trigger......... you can guess the rest.

I've heard a lot of people claim Larium doesn't give them any side effects but from my own experience, I've hardly ever seen anyone who's taking it that does not have occasional & momentary episodes when they are not as sharp minded as they usually are.

So the moral of those stories is let's be careful out there.

I investigated a so call AD in a ford mustang years ago.

3 natives were out spot lighting deer in a ford mustang driver, passenger front seat, passenger in the middle of backseat.

Rifle Winchester 94 30-30 they were traveling down the road and see a deer, guy in the back seat muzzle forward loads the rifle and shoves it forward so the passenger in the front can shoot the deer.

In the process rifle fires and shoots the front seat passenger in the left leg right be low the knee.

Bullet traveled down the leg breaking both bones exiting out the bottom of the foot right in the center of it.

They go to the local hospital drop their buddy of at the ER door and leave.

Hospital calls the sheriff dept. I show up get the passengers name just before the victim goes into surgery.

I found out where the passenger lives and get him out of bed.

4 hours later I finely get the full story out of him.

He told me the case of beer they drank didn't have a thing to do with it.

P dog, as a GW I investigated a suspicious incident just south of Moundville Al . Seems three 16-18 year old black males were riding down a rural dirt and were stopped by a white man in the road. As one of the black youths exited the car he was shot in the foot, no idea who the "shooter" was....

The shot youth was carried to the hospital, but they left his shoe at the local PD, big toe included. No jokes please. I interviewed all three youths, no one breaking till one of em grandma slapped the snot out of him and made him tell the truth. Seems they were night hunting and as the passenger got out to shoot a deer he shot his own foot. Beer was included....

troy

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

3 natives were out spot lighting deer in a ford mustang

The mind boggles!