The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Is there a future for hunting?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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We all wish that the sport will remain and flourish, but this post is about realistic reading of the future, not what we wish and hope. Today hunting and hunters are vilified in a way that seems unreal at times. When in college 15 years ago I would show my hunting pictures to girls to impress them, today I had to hide my hunting pictures on social media in special folders with limited audience after a few female associates expressed different degrees of dissatisfaction including calling me uncivilized and heartless. I know hunter friends whose teenage sons would not go hunting with them because they consider it inhumane. Heck, when I was young I could not wait for my dad to allow me to move from target shooting with air guns to hunting with firearms under his supervision. Media and peer influence are changing the attitude of the young people who will become the decision makers in the future. Some businesses are taking positions against hunting such as some airlines no more transporting big game hunting trophies or Facebook famously taking down some trophy photos of Kendall Jones, and the nose seems to be tightening to suffocate this sport and turn it into a socially unacceptable act. I don't know about you but I think the future is bleak. I see hunting becoming less popular and more vilified to the point where many people will have to practice it secretly not to harm their professional and social lives, I see prudent firearms manufacturers increasing the clothing and accessories side of the business in anticipation for a day when gun production will not be financially sustainable anymore, I see Europe being affected first then parts of the US like California will follow then it spreads from there, and I even fear that at one point a future British monarch will break with the tradition set since queen Victoria by not granting a royal warrant to James Purdey as the palace's gunmaker under public pressure. That would be a moment when the anti-hunting movement graduates from rallying people and businesses to influencing the establishment itself. What do you think? Am I reading the signs correctly, or is there a glimmer of hope that I'm not seeing? Don't Ever Book a Hunt with Jeff Blair or Blair Worldwide Hunting http://forums.accuratereloadin...043/m/3471078051/p/1 | ||
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I'm afraid you nailed it. In addition, the population of sub-Saharan Africa is expected to go from 1 billion to 4 billion. Game populations cannot survive that. Both factors together will basically eliminate large mammal hunting. Just in the last few years it has become illegal for US citizens to import elephant and lion trophies in most cases. A CMS newsletter a few months ago said their bookings were down about 40%, if I recall correctly. Indy Life is short. Hunt hard. | |||
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I am afraid for safari hunting and possibly some big game hunting in this country. Small game, upland, waterfowl, less of an issue, in my view. NRA Patron member | |||
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At least it's still hard to draw for big game hunts in the Western US which obviously indicates a good demand. That's a positive perhaps? ______________________ I'm not a great hunter...just a guy who loves to hunt. | |||
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Brian, On the present course...I am afraid you are dead right. Maybe something will happen to change the course...but hard to see what it would be.  You can go down to the ARPF and see actual hunters (supposedly) railing against policies that might reverse some of the decline. It would be hard for me to imagine a life without hunting and fishing. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I heard this in the 1980s. I heard this here on AR. A lot recently. This has to be the 10th thread on this subject. Not that its bad. Or good. It is obviously a subject. I went to DSC this year and found about everything I wanted was booked for a year or two. Sure they have some off years from the boom years. There are reasons for that. Political and financial. But that happens in almost all industries. Today hunting and safari hunting is an industry. How many hunting operations are in Africa now? It has got to 10,000. With that level I suspect there has to be some pullback. Try getting the best leases here in Texas lately? Good luck with that. Call for even a pig hunt and you'll find they are booked up for a year and more. When I first hunted in Argentina in the 1980s there weren't too many hunting haciendas there, and maybe a few 5 star level lodges. Nothing that compares to today. Look at it now! The same in Africa. But it just costs more. And it could or probably will cost even more. I think my first two buffalo trophy fees were about 900$. Today it is a bit more. Today paid hunting in large part has to compete for the travel and entertainment monies spent by the consumers. It is just how it has become. Whether it is fishing, or skiing, or NFL and college games, or F1 racing, or any other of the travel/entertainment venues, they too are going to be doing the same. There may be fewer hunters as a percentage of the total, but there is still a considerable number out there. Will it continue? What can we do? Sure promoting conservation is one thing. We've been doing that now as hunters at least a century in various forms. The other is to just go hunting. Enjoy it now while it is there and let others follow and go along with you too. Especially younger kids and men and women. I have gotten a lot of guys and ladies started in hunting ( and gun ownership) down through the years and many of those are still going today. It is just like in sports cars. I tell the younger guys - The 60s weren't the Golden Good Old Days. Today and right now is the real Golden Days. It is the same with hunting really. We have never had this much and this many good choices. So enjoy it while it lasts and while you can. | |||
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As bad as I hate to say it, I feel we are looking at maybe 30 years for African hunting, possibly 50 for hunting in America, and both of those estimates are probably highly optimistic. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Well, maybe, maybe not. But there is one thing that is certain, most hunters can not hunt unless they use guns. Which brings me to my point, if you are a US citizen, a hunter, and don't belong to the NRA, then you are part of the problem. I would go so far as to call you a damn traitor to the cause of hunting and gun ownership. If for some reason you are not an NRA member, I urge you to join now. If you're a Texas resident, after the NRA, I urge you to join the Texas State Rifle Association. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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Instead of feeling sorry for ourselves that our tradition is dying, why don't we just go and hunt? By going hunting, we will supporting what we wish to see continue. I have been hunting and shooting for as long as I can remember. In fact, one of my friend keeps saying I was born with a rifle in one hand and a shotgun in the other  And I will continue to hunt whenever I get the chance. | |||
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Second that I've been telling people " if you don't belong to NRA and you are gun owner and hunter , you are as worthless as tits on a boar hog " No excuse period ... " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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The main force on wildlife is the reduction of habitat. the main force on hunting are laws enacted by uninformed people. So a hunter's main actions should be to prevent the further loss of habitat and to educate the general public. So what have YOU done lately?? | |||
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Well said that man. Take a step forward rather than looking behind your back. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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BAAM!!! Exactly right my friend. Stop whining about what could happen, and get out there and get it done! Not that I don't agree with, and understand the OP's position - largely I do. But, do what you can to help and then do as Saeed suggests.....get out there and HUNT!!!!! | |||
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While I do agree that the immediate future for hunting appears bleak, I also believe that the earth will not continue to tolerate the steadily increasing population of humans. While as has been mentioned this makes the future for African wildlife on the bleak side, what I see in the future is a crash due to the inability of the food supply to increase as fast as the human population. Eventually the have nots will attempt to get what they do not have from us "haves." We who are experienced hunters will have a distinct survival advantage. Most of my money I spent on hunting and fishing. The rest I just wasted | |||
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......................................................................   ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Might want to stop a minute and take a good long look around, how many hunters do you know under the age of 50 and how many over 50? There in lies the REAL problem concerning the Future of hunting, world wide. While there are good numbers of young people become hunters, they simply do not view it in the same way as those of us in our 60's and older do. Many of todays hunters have taken up the sport, but in many cases they don't have the same ties to hunting or attitudes about hunting that we older individuals do. Look at today's hunting programs, most of us older hunters don't watch them because hunting and hunters are not viewed or portrayed in the manner that many of us that grew up hunting did. Wished I did not have such a negative outlook on the future of hunting, but I have been watching the changes that have been taking place over the past 20-25 years and I just don't see some of todays hunters staying interested in hunting over the long run. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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In other words, "make hay while the sun shines"  | |||
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USMC Retired DSC Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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People of all sorts have the right to disagree with some of the NRA's positions and decide not to join. Things such as their stance on live pigeon shooting competitions are perfectly reasonable grounds for people to protest that organisation's workings. Everyone is entitled to their own views and decisions with their free will. Don't Ever Book a Hunt with Jeff Blair or Blair Worldwide Hunting http://forums.accuratereloadin...043/m/3471078051/p/1 | |||
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Of course they do. And by making such a choice they are showing that they don't care about the larger issues of gun ownership and hunting. To use the old saying, "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good". I have lots of problems with the NRA, but I'm several levels above a life member and give them more money from time to time. If you are not an NRA member, you're part of the problem and you can sugar coat it any damn way you please. "Pigeon shooting", my ass. Give me a break.  Have you considered that banning pigeon shooting (which I disagree with personally but am not telling someone else what they can shoot) is one very small step from banning dove hunting, varmint hunting, etc? But, all that said, you have free choice, but if you're not an NRA member, you're riding on the coat tails of all of us who more actively support our 2 Ad. rights. Shame on you. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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Approximately 80 million gun owners in America, 5 million or less are members of the NRA. There is more to the issue than some choose to address. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Everybody is not so concerned with the 2nd and hunting as they should be and, hopefully that we as active hunters, are. Inertia is widespread. Lots of excuses. Do you have one or are you a member? xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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Exactly. I refuse to be hijacked or claimed by an organisation because I'm a gun owner. You sir are a true voice or reason  Don't Ever Book a Hunt with Jeff Blair or Blair Worldwide Hunting http://forums.accuratereloadin...043/m/3471078051/p/1 | |||
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I am not the voice of reason at all. I am a 66 year old TEXAN that has been watching something that I LOVE and LIVE to do slowly eroding away, fearing that those coming along after me will NOT know what setting in a duck blind in the Pre-Dawn, listening to the whistling wings and calls of incoming birds, waiting for legal shooting time. I fear that future generations will not be able to experience what it is like, standing on a ridge 8 thousand feet up on the West Slope of the Rockies in Colorado in the pre-dawn light, listening to bull elk bugling at each other. The issues concerning the FUTURE of hunting are bigger and more diverse than too many of us choose to admit to. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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"Is there a future for hunting?" You answered your own question by your lack of support for same. Really shameful. There is at least one seller on Gun Broker that won't sell guns to you unless you're an NRA member. Good idea AFAIC. I'm going to make it my policy and that of my kids, that if an American guide or outfitter is NOT a member of the NRA, then we/they will look elsewhere. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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The NRA is keenly aware of this issue. One of the reasons the NRA started the Hunters Leadership Forum was to get a larger percentage of the gun owners involved. The NRA is formidable now. Imagine what they would be like with double the members or more. I personally believe that they are our only hope. | |||
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I understand your passion, but you really need to calm down. Have a good one. Don't Ever Book a Hunt with Jeff Blair or Blair Worldwide Hunting http://forums.accuratereloadin...043/m/3471078051/p/1 | |||
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Very well put. This is the essence of my post, but you said it beautifully and eloquently. I've been discussing grass root actions with some hunters to print flyers and talk to people at local gatherings and educate them about ethical hunting and the conservation part of it. Not sure how it will go but hopefully will change even a few minds  Don't Ever Book a Hunt with Jeff Blair or Blair Worldwide Hunting http://forums.accuratereloadin...043/m/3471078051/p/1 | |||
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Not sure about all that mate. I would have though hunting in America is fairly safe as much of it is classed and proven as sustainable and traditional. In addition you are protected by associations, clubs, trusts, foundations etc etc that represent millions of people. In addition hunters have proven the rejuvenation of lands and species. The hunting industry and associated product base is vast. Whereas in Africa our hunting, lands and wildlife policies have being eroded and dictated by whimsical internationals. This is far more alarming. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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A lot of people have tried to predict the end of hunting. It hasn't happened yet, and it won't happen in your time line. Keep hunting and quit telling me the sky is falling. | |||
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+1 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Brian, I (and Aaron Neilson) started (and ended) a grassroots organization to advocate for science-based ethical hunting as conservation...the Lion Conservation Task Force. While we did some good (actually a lot for such a small org)...we would have been better off to have been a part...subset of a larger org with more money and political power. You will NEVER put together a group of any size that thinks exactly like you. Join the NRA, DSC, SCI etc. Get involved and be the voice for YOUR thoughts within that org...then reap the rewards of unification. PS: If you went to a Pigeon Shoot...you would meet a LOT of salt-of-earth American hunters and shooters that you would definitely NOT want to alienate in your quest to save hunting. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I think we absolutely must remain cognizant of the wildlife numbers, habitat preservation as well as firearm laws/availability sometimes we shoot ourselves in the foot: in PA there was a push to have bear season open on saturday then go monday-wednesday, it used to be a full roster on monday good group on tuesday and maybe 8-10 on wednesday. not it's a 3/4 full roster saturday not even 1/2 full monday & tuesday and Wednesday I take my bear rifle to scout where I want to sit the first morning of deer season or I go pheasant hunting so by changing the tradition we have given people the opportunity to hunt a day on the weekend and go back to work instead of burning vacation days (pluses and minuses to both) out west the big concern has been transfer of public land from the national government to state government, state's can't afford to maintain it all so they sell to private. not good for public land hunting but on the flip side hopefully some of it is kept as hunting ground even if you & I can't go hunt there without an outfitter so i think the long term will be depending upon where you live for if hunting is considered acceptable vs vilified, I think we will see a lot more areas like texas where you have to pay to hunt the property, but I don't think we will see hunting completely go by the wayside as population control is a key factor in hunting | |||
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And there in lies the whole problem. Hunting will not end in My Lifetime! How many people feel that way, and how many people will not get involved because they are not concerned about what happens after they are gone? This is a problem that there is NO EASY "Quick Fix" solution too. Look at the differing opinions on here and try to expand that to the thoughts/beliefs of just hunters in America. Just take time to look at the responses that have been made. Everyone is concerned to one extent or another, and as with so many "Political" issues, for lack of a better term, not EVERYONE shares the exact same view as to the situation or how to turn things around. As with any issue, it is important for EVERYONE to TRY and remember, alienating each other is NOT going help ANYTHING! Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Hunting faces it's challenges, that's for sure. Best thing we all can do is try to get young people involved. My kids (age 15, 13, 10) all hunt. We make an annual ritual out of applying for Western youth tags. I have one nephew who is very interested, so he's going to join us this year. We invite youth friends of my kids to go dove hunting, shoot clays, ground squirrels, etc with us. By the way, two of my kids are girls, and three of the friends who have joined us are girls, so don't overlook them. Invite a grandchild, niece, nephew, etc out to the range. Bring a 22 and a brick of ammo and watch them have the same fun you did at their age! | |||
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I agree 100%!!! | |||
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How To Influence People!!!!!!! Yep, shaming people or trying to, making irrelevant accusation concerning someone or their character touting how much more Patriotic/Honorable one is than someone else, Yes Sir, that is what makes America and Americans GREAT and gains support for causes such as this, WHICH by the way, does NOT just affect those that hunt Africa! This issue is only going to get more complicated as time goes along, without drawing lines of division from the start, but that seems to have become Standard Operating Procedure among Americans at least. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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This. We have to get more kids involved. We have to teach them that hunting is part of our heredity and heritage before they're brainwashed against. Hard? Yes. Impossible? No. Take a kid hunting. Get that kid excited. Teach him or her about the conservation value of hunting so he/she can relate the entire experience and the good it does to his/her peers. That's our only chance of keeping our traditions alive. Oh yeah, join the NRA. I just bumped up to Benefactor and will now focus on life memberships for my three kids._____________________ A successful man is one who earns more money than his wife can spend. | |||
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As a lifetime NRA and DSC member, I really struggle to understand how any serious hunter or gun owner can justify not being a member (in the US) or similar organizations outside the US. Do I agree with everything those organizations do? No. But I agree with nothing that their vocal and emotional opposition parties are doing. Will hunting and guns go away in my time? No but it will probably go away in the future thanks to those "brave souls" that do nothing now. At the end of the day, you are on the team or you are off the team. | |||
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Damn, say on, Brother. You nailed it and those piss ants who are shamed by my posts can go piss up a rope. They aren't on the team for some silly reasons, none of which amount to a hill of beans when compared to the larger picture. The only possible excuse is if they are too broke to pay the dues. If that's the case, and you can look me in the eye, electronically speaking, of course and tell me that you're too broke to scrape up the $30 or $40 for a years dues, I'll pay it for you and you can do the same for someone else when your times improve. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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