quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by samir:
Excellent video. Interesting how the PH went for a chest shot on a charging buffalo. Thanks for sharing.

Throw as much lead as possible at the buffalo as fast as possible

Mike

Both decisions are totally WRONG on a charging buffalo close at hand.

One might only get one shot, so make it count.

In fact, I have made it a point to shoot them in the head if they are close for the first shot.

Have done it many times, and it puts an end to any drama.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by samir:
Excellent video. Interesting how the PH went for a chest shot on a charging buffalo. Thanks for sharing.

Throw as much lead as possible at the buffalo as fast as possible


Mike

You can fill a wounded Cape buffalo with two tons of lead, but once he charged with his adrenaline going MOST of the time it takes CNS to stop them.

A professional hunter told me he had two clients, both shooting 458 Winchester rifles, hunting together.

They put 27 shots into one buffalo!

Apparently they were trying to get value for money!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
A professional hunter told me he had two clients, both shooting 458 Winchester rifles, hunting together.

They put 27 shots into one buffalo!

Apparently they were trying to get value for money!

Should have used a 458 Lott

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by MTarcher:
I have only killed one buffalo but it was a center heart shot at about 60 yards and he immediately charged right for us where Doug Duckworth dispatched it with a head shot at 4 paces!

Doug told me about that one. It’s also the only one he has hunted that charged on the first shot. Must have been interesting.

Mike

First and foremost, if you are planning a 1st time Buffalo hunt, you must be aware of the danger that lies ahead.

Before even discussing it further you simply must educate yourself on the events that may unfold when hunting that old, mean, Syncerus Caffer and there are many videos available, specifically created by professionals in the industry as a guideline for the newbies.

There are of course the natural charges, such as the one shown on this thread which are a result of circumstance and handled to suit the occasion and then there are others which are "created" for tutorial purposes and/or for "nail-biting" viewing by the unsuspecting viewer.

All are good entertainment but the ones you need to focus on are the natural charges because shit happens according to Murphy's law and there really isn't much time to adjust your makeup.

Ray A
I just re-read your post and others about lung shots.
Dumb question next:
If the lung shots are so ineffective, why do people shoot them there?
Inquiring minds want to know?

I'd tend to think that had they not had the opportunity to keep shooting after that second hard hit that he wouldn't have made it far before he had succumb to the first two shots whether or not it was with a 375 or 500.
Naturally you have to keep shooting if you can but its pretty clear to see the charge was activated by all the commotion and won't be easily forgotten.
Darn exciting outcome that's for sure.

Adam- you hit the nail on the head. My bet is if the buff had turned and run out of sight after the first shot then Len would have given it 10 minutes and found it dead.

As it was when you see a buff you have shot you keep filling it with lead and as it was it simply saw them and came for them even though it was running out of "fuel" at the time.

The exact same thing happened 10 years ago to Allan were a wounded buff they had been following jumped up ran broadside to them. Clients gun jammed and Allan poured 3 shots into the engine room only for it to turn at that moment and charge. Thats when he got a horn up his bum!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:


Apparently they were trying to get value for money!

Having watched this excellent video a few times, I have to say that it is making a real "Christian" out of me, especially considering that I now use a single shot on cape buffalo. Yikes, that bull took a lot of lead!

I would like to learn all I can from the video.
Carl, can you please tell me what bullets were being used?

Thanks, Brian

quote:

Originally posted by crshelton:
Ray A
I just re-read your post and others about lung shots.
Dumb question next:
If the lung shots are so ineffective, why do people shoot them there?
Inquiring minds want to know?

Lung and heart shots are not ineffective, they kill any animal as dead as it can be but animals so hit will run until the lungs fill with blood and the animal 'drowns' in its own blood or pure heart shot animals typically jump or arch their back and then run like hell until their brain runs out of oxygen at which they slow, stagger and fall. The old timers in Africa, Bell included with his small calibre weapons, used the lung shot on elephant when they couldn't get a clear head shot. The animal would usually run a 100 yards and expire. The difference is that these hunters just let the animal run after the first shot, carried on shooting others from a mob, then tracked out any that had run. Most animals will run away after being hit the first time but as seen in the video once follow up shots are fired, the animal can get turned to where he sees or just inadvertently happens to head in the direction of the cause of his pain and distress, this becomes the charge.

The same would happen in Africa today except we have the mentality of keep shooting until the animal is down. I accept that this is probably necessary because many hunters can't call their shot and the PH has to make the call that it may not be a killing shot on any animal that doesn't drop to the first shot or at least just stagger around on damaged shoulders.

I hate heart/lung shot animals as I like to anchor any animal I shoot where it is when I shoot. Often in my hunting for red deer, chamois and tahr, these animals can be lost if they run more than a few yards, especially the latter two animals when shooting in the Alps. I am not interested if I lose meat from animals so I take through the the shoulders or high through the brisket which is most often a drop shot or at least a disabling shot an any animal. If an animal is standing lifting its head and neck up towards you i.e. in scrub or long grass, then a bullet high through the brisket will not only take out the major blood vessels coming off the top of the heart but will invariably travel down into the mid or lower spine. I have shot a lot of running animals, including some buffalo, and invariably I naturally shoot high taking out the shoulders or if the lead is not quite right and hitting a little far back, taking out kidneys and damaging the spine for an instant drop shot. No animal likes its kidneys hit, get someone to knee you in the kidneys, I guarantee you will drop.

I think the title is a little misleading, Buffalo almost runs into them by accident really & at 1/2 to 1/4 pace !

Sorry can not see "Full Blown Charge" there !

Also agree that the Bull would have expired shortly if not for the commotion.

I have been guiding on Water Buffalo, Banteng for over 20yrs & on a few Capes last 4yrs, only a Banteng got through & tossed me !

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Glad to see no one was hurt, in dealing with a bad situation.

Next time may be all of you might wish to leave all these useless canons at home when hunting buffalo, and use a decent caliber that actually does kill them.

I highly recommend the 375

I was thinking my 500 Jeffery, but maybe up those TSX's up from 2300 fps to 2500 fps. Great job putting him down at the end.

Thank you eagle27 ! A better explanation than expected.

Your philosophy is similar to that of my "coach" on shooting African animals and any big animal that may get away or try to get even!

A bullet through the shoulders or pelvis will drop most critters and slow down the others.

quote:

Originally posted by Sarg:
I think the title is a little misleading, Buffalo almost runs into them by accident really & at 1/2 to 1/4 pace !

Sorry can not see "Full Blown Charge" there !

Also agree that the Bull would have expired shortly if not for the commotion.

I have been guiding on Water Buffalo, Banteng for over 20yrs & on a few Capes last 4yrs, only a Banteng got through & tossed me !

Still charging, and would have caused lots of damage it was not stopped!

The ultimate cause of death is lack of oxygen to the autoregulatory centers of the brain. How you do that will have all sorts of implications as to how long expiration takes.

The quickest of course is direct penetrating (missile) trauma.

Blood loss preventing oxygen to get to the brain is slower: heart, lungs and guts -> no blood to pump. The quicker the blood loss, the quicker the expiration.


PS the only way to drop an animal in its tracks is to take out the electrical system (central nervous system)- brain or spine (cord).



Mix and match as you please................'splains all the anecdotes out there.

quote:

Originally posted by FMC:

PS the only way to drop an animal in its tracks is to take out the electrical system (central nervous system)- brain or spine (cord).

That is not exactly true. We have dropped animals, dead on the spot not a single step, mainly with shoulder shots where the bullets did not go anywhere near the spine.

Animals are different.

I have dropped animals in their tracks with hits that seem to be totally irrelevant to killing.

But not buffalo.

quote:

Originally posted by Sarg:
I think the title is a little misleading, Buffalo almost runs into them by accident really & at 1/2 to 1/4 pace !

Sorry can not see "Full Blown Charge" there !

Also agree that the Bull would have expired shortly if not for the commotion.

I have been guiding on Water Buffalo, Banteng for over 20yrs & on a few Capes last 4yrs, only a Banteng got through & tossed me !

Totally agree Sarg

So a wounded buffalo, coming straight at you, is not charging?

I suppose he wanted to shake hands!

I have seen happen myself.

The buffalo will run around, and change direction once he sees the hunters.

Even when down, we always approach the buffalo from behind.

Pre-planned, stupid, wounded on purpose, Mark Sullivan style, charges are totally fake.

This was a genuine buffalo charge.

It charged as soon as it saw them.

Yes, He charged with all his might. He might have been running out of steam but he was still able to make a mess.
I have been knocked down and rolled around on a frozen corral by slow moving mature cows, several times. It can really ruin your day.

Agree with others, irrespective of whether a buffalo is deliberately targeting someone or is just running in the direction it has decided to take, we cannot read their mind, they can still do a lot of damage even just running over the top let alone any goring it might manage to get in. A tonne of animal with a hoof on your head is only going to end one way.

I dropped a young bull buffalo virtually on the end of my 404 barrel as it came hurtling through some scrub while my mate was facing away putting down a wounded buff with his 7x57 that was regaining its feet. The bull came in from behind but was not charging as such as it wouldn't have seen us until it burst through in the scrub. It was more likely disorientated trying to get back into its herd which we had split up out in the open as we took a few animals for our guides pet meat business at the end of our hunting day. Had I not dropped the animal I'm sure it would have just trampled on over the top. I crouched a little and took the bull with a high chest shot with the 404 and a solid, dropping it on the spot, I guess hitting the spine some place to do that.

I read an article one time, by Warren Page I think, about how he took long distance shots at an elk. He said he shot it through the heart twice, but the elk ran off and never found.

Huh.

I figure one shot from a 416 with a soft into the lungs will kill any buffalo before it makes two yards.

Warren Page was right on for elk.
My elk coaching was done by a man raised on a Colorado ranch and was calling elk for hunters by the time he was 12 years old. When he guided me, he had personally killed 61 elk and guided clients to hundreds more.
He told me that if possible, take the double lung shot and the elk will not go far. He said the heart shot is much more difficult and that the elk can run for miles before dying. Who was I to argue with him. So far, the double lung shot has worked well for me, with the elk travelling less than 100 yards before lying down to die.
As luck would have it, on the last day of my second elk hunt with him, we jumped two shooters (6x6 or better) from under a clump of cedars and one ran left behind the trees and the other to the right toward an open drainage . My guide called and the bull stopped. As I ran to the caller to get a clear shot, the bull ran directly away, showing only his butt; no double lung shot.
My only shots were a very risky spine shot or ;;; -- a Texas Heart Shot with my .338. He kept going after the shot, but not so gracefully. We crossed a little opening and found him dead on his feet, so I administered the final mercy shot and we took pix before doing the field dressing chores.


Planning is critical, but things do not always go as planned; Then the hunter must adapt to the circumstances. And use enough gun!

Last year I shot a buffalo in the afternoon.

He ran off into some thick stuff.

We ran after him.

When we saw him - we were in a thicket, and only our heads and his head can be seen.

He was turning around, looking.

The instant he saw us, I shot him in the head.

We were all certain he would have come for us if I had not dropped him.

One can plan as much as one wants, but things seem to always turn south sometimes.

And no matter how big your gun is, if that bullet is not in the right place, it would not do much good.

Looking at the video the first shot seems to have been a difficult one.It was rushed and there were branches in the way.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Looking at the video the first shot seems to have been a difficult one.It was rushed and there were branches in the way.

Lots of real, honest to goodness, buffalo shots ARE difficult and through brush.

Watched the video and auto play was on so I watched a couple of other African videos. The number of people that can't cycle a bolt action without taking it off the shoulder surprised me, as did the slowness to reload. A lot of shoot, stop and see what happened, and then reload going on.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
I read an article one time, by Warren Page I think, about how he took long distance shots at an elk. He said he shot it through the heart twice, but the elk ran off and never found.

Huh.

I figure one shot from a 416 with a soft into the lungs will kill any buffalo before it makes two yards.

Sounds just like Elmer Keith, when he said he broke the spine of a deer with a 30-06, but it still ran off!

Those old geezers would have been skinned alive on the Internet today.

Another was Bob Milek, who was saying the 243 Winchester is marginal, as it did not have the required energy to kill.

At the same time he was so ecstatic about shooting deer with a 357 Magnum!

quote:

Lots of real, honest to goodness, buffalo shots ARE difficult and through brush.

Reason being why large-bore calibers traveling at 2150fps are ideal for such scenarios.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

Lots of real, honest to goodness, buffalo shots ARE difficult and through brush.

Reason being why large-bore calibers traveling at 2150fps are ideal for such scenarios.

I am so happy that the hundreds of buffalo we have shot never realized they are being killed by fast moving smaller caliber bullets

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

I am so happy that the hundreds of buffalo we have shot never realized they are being killed by fast moving smaller caliber bullets

More than 600 buffalo shot with Dr. Kevin Robertson's 9,3x62 were quite happy with the smaller caliber.

quote:

Originally posted by Sunshine:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

I am so happy that the hundreds of buffalo we have shot never realized they are being killed by fast moving smaller caliber bullets

More than 600 buffalo shot with Dr. Kevin Robertson's 9,3x62 were quite happy with the smaller caliber.

Exactly!

Experience trump’s any bullshit from arm chair hunters

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Looking at the video the first shot seems to have been a difficult one.It was rushed and there were branches in the way.

Lots of real, honest to goodness, buffalo shots ARE difficult and through brush.

They are much more difficult(pressure wise) on hunts in areas were there are not that many buffalos, the hunt is a low budget single buff hunt and the hunt is of short duration.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Looking at the video the first shot seems to have been a difficult one.It was rushed and there were branches in the way.

Lots of real, honest to goodness, buffalo shots ARE difficult and through brush.

They are much more difficult(pressure wise) on hunts in areas were there are not that many buffalos, the hunt is a low budget single buff hunt and the hunt is of short duration.

It does not matter what sort of hunt it was.

It was in an open, wild area.

The client can decide when to shoot.

He might not get another chance.

On our hunts, once an animal is identified, I take the shot anytime a possibility comes.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

Lots of real, honest to goodness, buffalo shots ARE difficult and through brush.

Reason being why large-bore calibers traveling at 2150fps are ideal for such scenarios.

I am so happy that the hundreds of buffalo we have shot never realized they are being killed by fast moving smaller caliber bullets

I have taken out more unsuspecting Buffalo, oblivious of what was about to come their way, with a single bullet using a 7 Rem Mag then later discovered there was more to be had from a 300 Win Mag.

Among the many that dropped there have also been a very limited number that were badly shot and had to be dealt with using something more versatile at close quarters and quite honestly, never regretted having a lowly DR lobbing a 570gr Woodleigh at 2150fps.

It can make all the difference when you have no-one to back you up and its just a question of what one was used to and more comfortable with to shoot DG in precarious situations.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Thank you for the kind words.

I forgot to tell that the brave cameraman was Justin Drainer. Just after the charge I asked him what he thought when the bull changed direction and came for us. He said his only thought was that he was glad he was standing besides a 500 NE!

Re qustions: The gun is my Saur Take Down in 416 RM. Bullets are Rhino solids. The gun feeds flawlessly but my friend who is not used to it short strokes on the fourth round. He is used to a Balser That said his first 3 shoots were all within 10 cm of each other in the center of the shoulder just over the heart.

Some of you seem to think it was not a charge. I have a lot less buffalo experience than many but more than most. When that bull looked me in the eyes after my first shoot with 500 NE I knew I would be in trouble if the last shot did not stop him.

Good Hunting

Carl Frederik

quote:

Originally posted by Carl Frederik Nagell:
Thank you for the kind words.

I forgot to tell that the brave cameraman was Justin Drainer. Just after the charge I asked him what he thought when the bull changed direction and came for us. He said his only thought was that he was glad he was standing besides a 500 NE!

Re qustions: The gun is my Saur Take Down in 416 RM. Bullets are Rhino solids. The gun feeds flawlessly but my friend who is not used to it short strokes on the fourth round. He is used to a Balser That said his first 3 shoots were all within 10 cm of each other in the center of the shoulder just over the heart.

Some of you seem to think it was not a charge. I have a lot less buffalo experience than many but more than most. When that bull looked me in the eyes after my first shoot with 500 NE I knew I would be in trouble if the last shot did not stop him.

Good Hunting

Carl Frederik

Whether he was charging you or you simply happened to be in the way he was headed is irrelevant in my book. If he had run over you, it would have been a big problem under either circumstance. Well done!

quote:

Originally posted by Texas Blue Devil:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by FMC:

PS the only way to drop an animal in its tracks is to take out the electrical system (central nervous system)- brain or spine (cord).

That is not exactly true. We have dropped animals, dead on the spot not a single step, mainly with shoulder shots where the bullets did not go anywhere near the spine.[/QUOTE

Whatever. Forgot people only see BLACK and WHITE. Should have said only “sure” way....(brachial plexus is part of the CNS)