Arjun,

I agree with you on a lot but disagree as well. I'm not a fan of shooting game at long range, but I like to know how far. I often will be carrying a .416 and I've shot buffalo over 200 yards and plains game out to 300 yards with that rifle. I know exactly where that rifle shoots out to 300 yards, but past 200 yards, exact range can be important. Dead on at 100, it's 6 inches low at 200, but 21 inches low at 300. So the difference between 225 and 275 is significant. Judging range can be tricky, especially across a drainage, or even a long open space. I used to carry a separate rangefinder, but as you said, the hunter should be on the sticks and ready to shoot, not trying to figure out just how far the animal is, so combining a rangefinder and binoculars saves a step and time.

Knowing the exact range on cats and crocs (I presume as I'll hunt them for the first time next year) is pretty important. Having rangefinding binos saves packing an additional item of gear.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Eddy,

Looking forward to the delivery, but I suspect I'll see a difference in two respects. Hopefully the weight outweighs the size of the objective and I strongly suspect it will for my purposes. Thanks for the tip. Saved me $500.

My pleasure!! That's the beauty of this great site!! Thank you Saeed!!

I was referring to not being able to detect the difference in light gathering ability in low light between 40mm and 32mm.

I don't agree with Arjun because, when hunting plains game, from Duikers, to Reedbok, Impala, to Bushbuck, Nyala, Kudu, Roan, up to Eland all very,very different in size, and then at various distances,light and bush conditions, it is very difficult to accurately gauge the range, maybe complicated by shooting a camp rifle you haven't memorized the ballistics??!!
I think a quick range with your binos provides a far better chance of a good shot, first time??!!

Has anyone had hands-on experience using either the Zeiss Victory RF 8x54 or RF 10x54 in twilight situations?

I find claimed of low light performance are way overrated.

Swarovski and Leica are great. Both have a great product and service.
I always use a rangefinder. Haven't been hunting without one (except for wingshooting ) for probably 10years.

I have no experience with Zeiss rangefinders, but have avoided their products due to the poor customer service compare to Swaro and Leica.

Best Regards,
Dennis

Thanks again Eddy. Something I hadn't even thought of that you pointed out, but I fully agree. The difference in the size of the various species makes it harder to judge range quickly. I ditched the separate rangefinder because it was too slow and hard to get a lock on the target. I nearly always check the animal with binos before shooting and by simply punching a button can get confirmation on range.

BANG ON!!

I agree with Arjun on dangerous game close up. But if you ate not in a blind on bait with known distances, the BIG DIFFERENCES in size of Leopards and Lions, one could be fooled on range when looking at a little guy vs a MONSTER!!

Technology helps!!

What ever happened to the concept of point blank range?? No holdover or under within 300 yards on non DG cartridges.

It is the professional hunters job to judge trophies, and decide whether to shoot or not.

Not the client.

I never carry either binoculars or rangefinder with me.

I use the rifle scope to look with.

I have seen hunters using binoculars on game while hunting, then changing to the scope and they are lost.

My PH looks with his binoculars, I look with my scope, rifle on the shooting sticks.

We talk.

As soon as a decision is made, rifle goes off!

End of story.

I have shot game at over 500 yards, only checked the distance after the shot.

With a GPS, not a rangefinder.

Know your rifle and its drop.

Beats any rangefinder!

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
What ever happened to the concept of point blank range?? No holdover or under within 300 yards on non DG cartridges.

The problem is trajectory tables are all based on flat terrain. When you start shooting longer ranges at steep angles up or down, your traditional tables with point blank range or hold over etc, can fall over. Even on flat terrain using the concept of point blank range you still need to be able to judge the range when getting out to 300yds and exceeding ranges.
Try judging range in this sort of country where we hunt tahr and chamois.
Admittedly most do not hunt this extreme country but for rolling hill or terrain with ridges and gullys, a rangefinder providing angle corrected distance to target is invaluable.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Thanks again Eddy. Something I hadn't even thought of that you pointed out, but I fully agree. The difference in the size of the various species makes it harder to judge range quickly. I ditched the separate rangefinder because it was too slow and hard to get a lock on the target. I nearly always check the animal with binos before shooting and by simply punching a button can get confirmation on range.

Sounds like your rangefinder was not a good one. My Bushnell RF is fast with a clear bright image. You don't need to lock onto a small animal at long range, just range to a nearby tree/bush or rock.

Me too. Always leave the binos in the car when I am stalking or give them to a tracker. I only carry my rifle and ammo and often get scolded for being a beggar since i Have no food, water or drink to offer a fellow companion . Jokes aside I see people bogged down with all sorts of crap with a big back pack, no wonder they screw up the shot when the time comes.

Agreed Range finders are all important, just that if you are hunting with a PH that's his job. In numerous hunting videos you see the client looking through his binos or just standing looking around then the PH saying get on the sticks, get on the sticks and by the time he does the animal is long gone!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
It is the professional hunters job to judge trophies, and decide whether to shoot or not.

Not the client.

I never carry either binoculars or rangefinder with me.

I use the rifle scope to look with.

I have seen hunters using binoculars on game while hunting, then changing to the scope and they are lost.

My PH looks with his binoculars, I look with my scope, rifle on the shooting sticks.

We talk.

As soon as a decision is made, rifle goes off!

End of story.

I have shot game at over 500 yards, only checked the distance after the shot.

With a GPS, not a rangefinder.

Know your rifle and its drop.

Beats any rangefinder!

One of the biggest complaints from PHs is clients taking far too long to pick the right animal and shoot.

With our system, that never happens.

Once we pick the target, I fire as soon as he is clear.

My rangefinder was the best -- a Leica, just a monocular.

Just got the Leica 10x30 rangefinder binos. Haven't had them ion the field, just out on the street. I've reprogrammed to yards. Having trouble with the horizontal distance (uphill/downhill) but I'll get it figured out.
Still a bit heavier than I'd like, but these will work.
Also confirmed the distance from my house to my office. I'd estimated 600 yards. Turns out, it's 514, not adjusted to true horizontql distance. So I was close.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
It is the professional hunters job to judge trophies, and decide whether to shoot or not.

Not the client.

I never carry either binoculars or rangefinder with me.

I use the rifle scope to look with.

I have seen hunters using binoculars on game while hunting, then changing to the scope and they are lost.

My PH looks with his binoculars, I look with my scope, rifle on the shooting sticks.

We talk.

As soon as a decision is made, rifle goes off!

End of story.

I have shot game at over 500 yards, only checked the distance after the shot.

With a GPS, not a rangefinder.

Know your rifle and its drop.

Beats any rangefinder!

The biggest Buff I ever encountered was not shot because the hunter was double-checking with his Binos instead of being on the sticks.

I agree that binos and rangefinders are simply tools and should be used judiciously. I agree that a hunter should actually shoot his/her rifle at the ranges that they are willing to shoot game. The main purpose of binos, from the hunter's perspective is to spot game and it is the PH's job to judge and decide on whether to take the shot. That all said, rangefinding binos simply combine two tools and eliminate the need for a separate tool. I've never had a problem transitioning from binos to scope and I won't look very long if at all if the decision to shoot has been made.

I would get the Leica but I would also get one with ABS software installed. I have a SIG Kilo10 that is amazing - glass is not comparable to Leica, but the rangefinder totally kicks butt.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
I would get the Leica but I would also get one with ABS software installed. I have a SIG Kilo10 that is amazing - glass is not comparable to Leica, but the rangefinder totally kicks butt.

Here is a link to the US$2700 SIG/SAUER rangefinder binocular that popped up in my email today.

Sig Sauer - KILO10K-ABS HD GEN II

Answers to some on-line questions:

* ballistic calculations past 1000 yards

* displays values in MIL or MOA

* range display can be switched to meters

Good glass is a must to me. The rangefinder is a plus.

I've gotten so used to using to my Swaros and Leicas with built in rangefinders, that I would not consider using just regular binos anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
I've gotten so used to using to my Swaros and Leicas with built in rangefinders, that I would not consider using just regular binos anymore.

Typical!

Lawyers are always looking for something that is not there!

I just spent three days in E Montana on my annual Prairie Dog safari!! This was my first chance to try out my new Leica GEOVID 3200 Range finding and Ballistic calculator Binos.
Trust me, this is the most crystal-clear glass I have ever used!! Brilliant!!
I was shooting 22LR, 22MAG, and 22 Hornet but did not have a chance to use my 222 Remington due to the high winds on the first 2 days... and the unsettled nature of these beasts after such fierce winds... one shot... gone... where normally we can sit for an hour and pick shots well over 350yards...
With the significant difference in ballistics of the 3 calibers I was using, the range was critical, and drove the gun selected for the target... this was fun and effective!!
I can't wait for next year for the long range capability with the 222 Remington and stretching my range beyond 347 yards now!! Couldn't range further last year...
I was able to test the range finding characteristics on hillsides and they worked well at 400-500- and finally 624 yards!! If there were antelope, or a ram out there... we could have shot with confidence.
I am impressed... now I have to load in the ballistics for my 300 Weatherby (pre-64 Model 70 Win) for Moose hunt in October...there was a MONSTER Bull at 425yards my partner saw after he had killed his bull last October... it is still waiting for me!!

I guess i have to be the opposite one here, I have a couple pairs of Zeiss 10x42 RF, and like them. I have had the opportunity to use them against the Geovid and Swavroski, they outranged both of those by several hundred yards. Admittedly, we were using the things at the limit of their capability, but the difference was marked.

I have used these at VERY last light in Namibia shooting waterbuck at 500 yards off sticks. Without these that was fantasy dream of shooting a 36' waterbuck. With them, it was still a tough shot, but makable. When I had a chance to buy a second pair at a discounted price, it was a no brainer, and mind you, I could buy whatever I fancied.

But, truth be told, if you haven't used any of the big three or four binos, you are not used to the clarity offered, Swaro, Leica, Zeiss and probably Meopta, are pretty much the stuff. I would have included Steiner a few years ago, but lagging slightly behind now. I have tried most of the stuff for sale, these definitely seem to be the best, not a lot different to choose from in them. The Zeiss has been good to me, I like the easy use, the better circle, knowing what it is ranging off of, those were my choice.