I greatly respect the opinion of many of the folks who post here on AR. I have a simple question I would like to ask.......PLEASE, if you decide to respond - NO long rambling rants on the reason for your answer. Just Yes or No. Do not enthrall us with your insightful acumen (as Hannibal would say).
I am trying to decide IF I am going to go back to Zim and put the hammer down on a Trophy Ele - then play Russian roulette to see if the USFWS ever lifts the ban.
I pays my money......and takes my chances.

So......Do you think the USFWS will ever lift the Ivory ban for Zimbabwe? If yes.....will it be longer than 3 years from now?

My $0.02. First, the ban expired on December 31, 2014. So today, unless and until the USFWS acts, there is no ban. The question is what will they do for 2015 and when will they do it? I talked to John Jackson in Dallas and he seemed to be cautiously optimistic that Zim would not be included for 2015. He did not elaborate on the basis for his view, but surprisingly seemed pretty sure of his view. From my perspective, the decision to put the ban in place in 2014 was a political move. I struggle with the fact that nothing has happened that changes the politics. So why would the USFWS reverse course? Maybe I am just a pessimist. Regardless I leave in a few weeks to hunt an ele bull in Zim. Not going to let the USFWS run my life. If I have to do replica tusks, so be it.

Sorry for the rambling rant, and not a yes or no answer. Does not really lend itself to a simple answer.

I think it likely the Zim ban is not reinstated and the TZ ban will be.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
I think it likely the Zim ban is not reinstated and the TZ ban will be.

From your lips to God's ears . . .

In a word, maybe.
I killed a bull in Zim a couple of weeks after USFWS dropped the bomb. It forced me to take a hard look at what I was going for. Bottom line, it wasn't the ivory.
I'm in Mike's camp. Don't let USFWS make your decision for you.
I still want the ivory, by the way.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
I think it likely the Zim ban is not reinstated and the TZ ban will be.

From your lips to God's ears . . .

+1,

Joyce and I are right behind you in April.

Mike and Lane are right
Zim hopefully will be Ok
Tanzania, no.
Maybe Botswana will open soon

1. Maybe
2. Go

1. maybe
2. hunt for the hunt ( as I know you allways do ) - make replicas
3. Botswana is still closed - no light at the end of the tunnel
4. Lion will be next - hunt your lion sooner than later

I think Tanz is a lost cause, Zim is a maybe, Botswana I think yes....simply too many elephant, I spoke to a Bots. farmer this month...elephant come crushing down his fences...shot 4 ele as PAC first week of January..

The pressure against politicians is high from farmers etc. to reopen ele hunting..

Why does everyone think the ban will stay in place in Tanzania?

I know they are doing everything possible to combat the situation (short of deporting the Chinese, which is the real solution).

I'd welcome your thoughts. Going back this year and probably almost every year as long as I'm able and would like a good pair of East African ivory before I die.

I'm going to, so should you.


Dutch

I just went on the FWS website to look at the import permit for Leopard and noticed this on the form....

African elephant (Loxodonta africana) Quantity: _____ (Import permit is not required for trophies harvested in Botswana, Namibia, South Africa, or Zimbabwe).

http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-200-19.pdf

So, if I understand this correctly, with no action by FWS the import ban on Zim is effectively lifted and no CITES permit is needed to import tusks?

I thought there would be some type of announcement?

Cheers
Jim

Saving face maybe?
I wouldn't put it past them

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
I just went on the FWS website to look at the import permit for Leopard and noticed this on the form....

African elephant (Loxodonta africana) Quantity: _____ (Import permit is not required for trophies harvested in Botswana, Namibia, South Africa, or Zimbabwe).

http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-200-19.pdf

So, if I understand this correctly, with no action by FWS the import ban on Zim is effectively lifted and no CITES permit is needed to import tusks?

I thought there would be some type of announcement?

Cheers
Jim

Form appears to be a February 2014 revision, that is two months prior to the 2014 ban, so not sure I would read much into the reference to Zimbabwe on the form.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
I just went on the FWS website to look at the import permit for Leopard and noticed this on the form....

African elephant (Loxodonta africana) Quantity: _____ (Import permit is not required for trophies harvested in Botswana, Namibia, South Africa, or Zimbabwe).

http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-200-19.pdf

So, if I understand this correctly, with no action by FWS the import ban on Zim is effectively lifted and no CITES permit is needed to import tusks?

I thought there would be some type of announcement?

Cheers
Jim

Form appears to be a February 2014 revision, that is two months prior to the 2014 ban, so not sure I would read much into the reference to Zimbabwe on the form.

Thanks for noticing that Mike. This still appears to be the "current" form on their website. I swore I saw a previous form that did not list Zimbabwe. Must have been dreaming.

Cheers
Jim

http://www.fws.gov/internation...-hunted-trophies.pdf


An import permit is not required to import an elephant trophy from Zimbabwe into the United
States. What authority does the Service have to restrict imports, and how would the restriction be enforced?



African elephants from Zimbabwe are included in CITES Appendix II for the purpose of non-commercial trade in hunting trophies, among other things. As with all CITES Appendix-II specimens, an import permit is not required. However, the listing of African elephants under the Endangered Species Act (ESA) contains a provision that requires the Service to make a determination that the import of an
elephant trophy would enhance the survival of the species. The Service must make this enhancement finding to be able to allow the import of an African elephant trophy from any country. With the 2014 suspension of imports, the Fish and Wildlife Service Office of Law Enforcement would either refuse entry or seize any elephant trophy from Zimbabwe that was hunted on or after April 4, 2014, at the time
of import. By announcing this suspension before trophies are sent to the United States, the Service hopes to avoid having to refuse or seize shipments upon importation.

quote:

Originally posted by Kathi:
http://www.fws.gov/internation...-hunted-trophies.pdf


An import permit is not required to import an elephant trophy from Zimbabwe into the United
States. What authority does the Service have to restrict imports, and how would the restriction be enforced?



African elephants from Zimbabwe are included in CITES Appendix II for the purpose of non-commercial trade in hunting trophies, among other things. As with all CITES Appendix-II specimens, an import permit is not required. However, the listing of African elephants under the Endangered Species Act (ESA) contains a provision that requires the Service to make a determination that the import of an
elephant trophy would enhance the survival of the species. The Service must make this enhancement finding to be able to allow the import of an African elephant trophy from any country. With the 2014 suspension of imports, the Fish and Wildlife Service Office of Law Enforcement would either refuse entry or seize any elephant trophy from Zimbabwe that was hunted on or after April 4, 2014, at the time
of import. By announcing this suspension before trophies are sent to the United States, the Service hopes to avoid having to refuse or seize shipments upon importation.

Dang it!!

Has anyone applied from an import permit from Zim?

Jim

http://www.huntingreport.com/c...nt_issue.cfm?id=1958



Saw this from the Hunting Report, USFWS has neither issued or denied any lion or elephant applications.



No Big News Yet from USFWS on Lion and Elephant Permits
(posted October - 2016)

Justin Jones, Assistant Editor


A number of subscribers have contacted The Hunting Report recently to ask for updates on import permits for elephant and lion now required by the US Fish & Wildlife Service (FWS) under the Endangered Species Act (ESA). Multiple hunters have submitted applications for permits for both species, but FWS has neither issued nor denied any permit application as of this writing.

We recently spoke with FWS spokesperson Vanessa Kauffman, who told us that FWS is not yet releasing any new information. Readers will recall that back in April Tim Van Norman, Chief of the Branch of Permits at FWS, told The Hunting Report that "interested parties" would be made aware of which countries have lion management programs that provide sufficient enhancement for permits to be issued under the current 4(d) rule (see Article 3774 from our May issue). For the moment, Kauffman could only tell us that FWS expects to make decisions on various range countries and to make those decisions known. She could not comment on a timeframe. Kauffman cautioned that when USFWS makes decisions about range states, it will not mean that all permits from any given range state will be approved.

Kauffman urged hunters who have questions about an existing import permit application or who wish to apply for a permit to contact the International Affairs Program at 703-358-2014....

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:
Has anyone applied from an import permit from Zim?

Jim

Yes, I have.

Yes.

After November we will see changes within USFWS. It will either get a whole lot better or a whole lot worse.

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:
After November we will see changes within USFWS. It will either get a whole lot better or a whole lot worse.

Hence the reason...I hedged my bet several months ago and bought a double ele hunt for 2017.

If the Clinton Foundation is allowed power over the USF&WS...ele, lion, and leopard hunting will soon be things Americans read about or watch on TV.

quote:

If the Clinton Foundation is allowed power over the USF&WS...ele, lion, and leopard hunting will soon be things Americans read about or watch on TV.

The future for American hunters and gun owners is looking bleaker by the hour.

FULVIO is absolutely correct. With in the first 4 years of Hillary's reign of terror there will be so many administrative road blocks to hunting out side of the US that it will be nearly impossible.

As in the past the ultra rich and politically connected may be able to but that will be all.

In fact there are going to be so many road block's, taxes, inspections etc in place that I doubt that more than 1 0r 2 % of the population will have anything guns to hunt with with 8 years of this November.

If you have any idea's about going to Africa to hunt this coming season is the season to go.