quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
54 no doubt is shit-stirrer (okay, from now on when someone stirs the shit, we can say "Hey, don't be a 54!"), but we do need to be more inclusive. It would be to our great benefit.

We should start something similar to Big Brothers/Sisters except take kids hunting.

HOW MUCH MORE INCLUSIVE CAN YOU BE THAN HAVING A CLUB WHOSE MEMBERSHIP IS OPEN TO ANYONE?? i suppose the club could start paying for a black/Hispanic/ native American's membership fee. oh, that's right, they have already tried that with federal subsidies for other things and 45 years later, nothing has changed...

Someday the majority of population will vote to outlaw hunting.

Ooops, it has already happened in lots of places (cougar hunting in California, bears with dogs in many states, etc. etc.).

Go back to sticking your heads in the sand guys.

I certainly don't think I have my head in the sand. And I've introduced at least one new person to hunting per year for the last several years now. Fact is that only about 30% of those have developed an interest in it enough to then pursue the outdoors on their own. It takes with some and not with others. Fact of life today since hunting isn't the primary means of obtaining meat for the pot anymore. I can't force the ones who aren't interested to continue hunting!

The club is open to anyone who wants to join. I've stated numerous times on this very forum that we should stop dividing our own rank and file by labeling one guy's trip afield as hunting and another's as "that's not hunting" simply because regional differences vary in how a hunt is conducted.

SCI gets a lot of bad rap, some of it deserved, but in this case who ever started this diatribe is simply full of crap!

Anyone with a desire and the green to become a member, and pay the door fee will be welcomed with open arms, even if he is purple or any other color!
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Dumb post

Stupid post of the year award.
They have let me in and I'm Greek.
Cheers, gents.
Cal

I saw blacks, whites, asians, latinos, American indians, far eastern indians, etc. Had dinner with two jews one evening and subsequently had lunch with two blacks and two latinos from California the next day, swapping hunting stories. Not sure why people didn't see the mix of color, races and cultures. And I was the only white guy in the manual push wheelchair this year, so I know some of you saw my wife wheeling me around the convention floor!

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
The SCI guys are all fighters.One should have listened to all the conversation in the shuttle buses about our elected representatives not doing enough for us and about getting all our kids to learn to hunt and shoot as early as possible.The message was that they are more than ever trying to take hunting away from us.

I find this whole thread to be very interesting, for several reasons. I don't run with the high rollers, but every dog has his day. Last year I came across close to 37K in unexpected monies. I'd always wanted to try an elk hunt in Idaho (I have a friend out there) and I had the dough easily. A bad back set me back temporarily, and my legs are getting old, so I put it away. But that was really just a convenient excuse. I have a lot of aquaintances, and quite a few friends who are totally at odds with me politically. Do I really want to spend maybe 10K to go on a hunt where I can sit around listening to the majority bitch about Obama all the time? No. The post I'm replying to is a perfect example of pure BS. I've not been subjected to a single new rule about my weapons since he took office, and my state, along with others, now has concealed carry along with agreements among states to honor each other. I was one of the 1st in line in my state of Iowa. How many hunters vote democratic basically? 10%? 20? Do you know? Are you even remotely aware of how many customers you may be turning off? My favorite gun dealer will shut you down if you start politicking in his shop for either side of the coin. Is your shrinking base good for the sport?
I know a lot of hunters that are democrats and do not wish to even hang with the overly vocal Obama haters as they find it obnoxious. I have never killed anything more than deer, because the one black bear hunt I went on was an unpleasant experience. There was a lone black hunter at our lodge and I heard a hundred off color jokes and "I hope this isn't a trend" comments. Black bear-black hunter, use your imagination. I cut it halfway through and went fishing. As far as I can tell, the dollar heavy end of the hunting sports in this country is a moneyed white man's game, no democrats welcome. I'm not trying to turn this into a political rant, but you should realize that anyone, regardless of politics or color, will most likely check out forums like this one before writing any checks, and maybe you should read some of the comments. My daughter still loves the VW convertible I spent most of the money on.

Well, nicely and carefully said, wymple.

Such is life.

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:
I'm not trying to turn this into a political rant, .

Well my fine friend that was a fine political rant for someone who wasn't trying! The political forum is elsewhere on this website!

I can't believe anyone can be so naive to think what the present administration is telling you, to your face, what they are going to do is just a joke and they don't really mean it!
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Struth, there were even Stralian's at the show.

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
Struth, there were even Stralian's at the show.

I met Nick Haridemos at the CMS booth.

Yes, Australian Greeks! Boyo who else will they let in?? Aus/German???

If they let the Aus/German in the Aus/Cypriot will be next

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:
My favorite gun dealer will shut you down if you start politicking in his shop for either side of the coin.

There is an incredible amount of horse sense in that course of action! It is effectively the Casablanca theory of doing business...."No politics in my place"! Frankly, regarding race, I live in Africa and hunt/shoot here quite a lot so I realize quite well that this place is not America and the sensibilities are not the same and the environment in which people were raised is fundamentally different. That said, my rule is that if an outfitter uses the word "Kaffir" in my presence during a hunt (ever) he is never getting a positive recommendation from me and will absolutely never see a return trip from me. I have said this before and I still think that a lot of African hunters bring this sort of BS back with them as though it somehow makes them as cool as the PH they worship. I have seen it. Further, the ultra right wing political crap (and I am quite "right" on many issues in the USA) is also a surefire way to turn me off when hunting. I just don't want to hear "real world" political crap (of ABSOLUTELY ANY stripe) while I am hunting. In fact, I go hunting to get away from that sort of thing!

JMHO

I guess we have run out of all other forms of insipid mindless shit to talk about.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:
I'm not trying to turn this into a political rant, .

Well my fine friend that was a fine political rant for someone who wasn't trying! The political forum is elsewhere on this website!

I can't believe anyone can be so naive to think what the present administration is telling you, to your face, what they are going to do is just a joke and they don't really mean it!
.......................................................................

Check the number of political comments about Obama before I said a single damn thing. Why did you not tell them this is not the political forum. It was not possible for me to respond in any other way, except to just shut up and agree with you. I gave my opinion and you don't like it, so you do the expected and jump in with your own political rant, insulting my intelligence on the way. Typical.

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wymple:
I'm not trying to turn this into a political rant, .

quote:

By wymple:
Check the number of political comments about Obama before I said a single damn thing. Why did you not tell them this is not the political forum. It was not possible for me to respond in any other way, except to just shut up and agree with you. I gave my opinion and you don't like it, so you do the expected and jump in with your own political rant, insulting my intelligence on the way. Typical.

I must say here that none of the comments by me named Obama but I do agree he IS the head of the snake that is biting at democracy, and personal freedom in this country!

I'm happy for you to have your own opinion.That is certainly your first amendment right. It is simply that your opinion is not in the majority here, live with it.

I will say your private post to me was considerably more civil than the public one you posted above!

I suppose Hunter 54 accomplished his goal, in stirring the pot! I'm gone!
.........................................................................................................................................................................BYE

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
I guess we have run out of all other forms of insipid mindless shit to talk about.

Not at all...check out wymple's posts in the political forum. There is a limitless supply.

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
I guess we have run out of all other forms of insipid mindless shit to talk about.

Not at all...check out wymple's posts in the political forum. There is a limitless supply.

Be my guest, just as long as you give the same attention to those posts surrounding mine.

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
I guess we have run out of all other forms of insipid mindless shit to talk about.

Not at all...check out wymple's posts in the political forum. There is a limitless supply.

man, ain't that the truth!

quote:

HOW MUCH MORE INCLUSIVE CAN YOU BE THAN HAVING A CLUB WHOSE MEMBERSHIP IS OPEN TO ANYONE??

open to anyone who can afford it.

Does SCI really have to charge the amounts they do to attend the sHow in Reno?

or is it like the establishments that charge $40 for a shot of scotch, that would otherwise cost $10 elsewhere.
simply in an attempt to keep the clientel base 'upmarket'.

I guess SCI keeps prices that way to attract people who can afford whats inside rather than just increasing attendances of window shoppers.

If any one is worried about 'eliteism'...Augusta National Golf Club has only 300 members.
former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and business executive Darla Moore just recently,
became the first female members of the club in its 80yr history.
Membership is by invitation only.
It did not welcome its first African-American member until 1990.
In fact, Club founder Clifford Roberts was once quoted as saying, "As long as I'm alive, all the golfers will be white and all the caddies will be black."
1997 Augusta, Tiger Woods won his first major with a white caddie....

The hurdle to entry into SCI is ones level of disposable income, not race,nationality,gender,religion or skin color.

and what exactly does the Augusta National and golf have to do with this topic???

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
and what exactly does the Augusta National and golf have to do with this topic??? :

It was more for Hunter54, ...if the added snipit about Augusta & blacks dont interest you, just ignore it.

What Trax said, plus ONE!!

Gents,
I can't believe the folk on an African Hunting Forum are complaining about a $75 annual membership, and a $100/day admission. Two days is plenty of time to see the whole show, so for $275 one gets to spend 2 days at one of the best hunting conventions on the planet. Food, transportation, and lodging are costs that occur when visiting any venue other than one's own back yard. A good bottle of Scotch costs more than an annual membership, and an afternoon's feed bill for my .470NE exceeds the convention daily rate. We could debate the relative values of all this, but I'd wager that few of us would gripe about the viggerish if it was something we really wanted to do. The cost of the SCI Convention is what it is, take it or leave it. I have never been to DSC because the value I perceive is less than the expense. No complaints with the organization, just my opinion. That belief will probably change after retirement, but for now, it's a no go.
As far as Hunter 54 and his race-baiting bullshit, we need to just ignore it. The AR forums are open to anyone to view, and it is highly naive to think that our anti-hunting foes don't monitor what we say here.

"Just because I'm paranoid, does not change the fact that they really are out to get me." Me.
Cheers to all,
Tim

GREAT POST TIM FERRALL!

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Saeed,

ban him if it is an issue...

There is absolutely no reason for me to ban him.

We only ban people in very rare occassions when we are left with no other choice.

He can state his opinion, and find out how that is acceptable or not by the rest of our community.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Ferrall:
Gents,
I can't believe the folk on an African Hunting Forum are complaining about a $75 annual membership, and a $100/day admission. Two days is plenty of time to see the whole show, so for $275 one gets to spend 2 days at one of the best hunting conventions on the planet. Food, transportation, and lodging are costs that occur when visiting any venue other than one's own back yard. A good bottle of Scotch costs more than an annual membership, and an afternoon's feed bill for my .470NE exceeds the convention daily rate. We could debate the relative values of all this, but I'd wager that few of us would gripe about the viggerish if it was something we really wanted to do. The cost of the SCI Convention is what it is, take it or leave it. I have never been to DSC because the value I perceive is less than the expense. No complaints with the organization, just my opinion. That belief will probably change after retirement, but for now, it's a no go.
As far as Hunter 54 and his race-baiting bullshit, we need to just ignore it. The AR forums are open to anyone to view, and it is highly naive to think that our anti-hunting foes don't monitor what we say here.

"Just because I'm paranoid, does not change the fact that they really are out to get me." Me.
Cheers to all,
Tim

Tim,

I agree with all you said but will add that the DSC show is very good and worth the money as well. Frankly, I don't understand the need to tear down SCI and over glamorize DSC. Both organizations work to support our hunting rights. I fully support both organizations, warts and all.

And where did Hunter54 run off to??

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:
And where did Hunter54 run off to??

Back under his rock!

Really...really...really stupid post!
I saw some of my tanzanian (black) PH friends at reno.

For members and exhibitors to point out deficiencies and flaws, things that can be improved on, things to stop doing and things to start doing, etc. is not tearing down an organization. To the contrary, it is about building a better organization, an organization more responsive to the needs of its members. If the members and exhibitors do not provide constructive feedback, how are things supposed to get any better? Just look at the thread with the comments from exhibitors, clearly there are areas that require some attention. What is most disturbing is the sense that the feedback really does not matter, that the organization will not pay any attention and does not care. That is disturbing.

If that was directed at me Mike, my response is that my post was less about the current discussions concerning donations and more to the larger interest on this forum in badmouthing ANYTHING that SCI does or is involved in.

For example, often times, a thread is started on a topic totally independent of SCI but within 4 or 5 posts, certain participants who seem to have an axe to grind, will attempt to accuse SCI of being at the root cause of whatever the issue being discussed is. It is quite predictable.

You and I are friends but seem to have a strong difference of opinion on the topic of SCI. That's OK. Friends disagree on things all the time. You said you are getting more involved with your local organization. That is a great win for them. I also think you'll grow weary of those who throw peanuts from the gallery without being willing to participate and work to improve that which needs improvement.

Personally I don't ascribe to the hope of DSC growing in influence and causing the demise of SCI. (How long will it be before someone takes that statement and reposts it out of context?) I personally would like to see both DSC AND SCI continue to grow and gain effective influence in regard to supporting hunters' rights. The more and larger voices we raise to counter the misinformation fed to the non-committed general public, the better. It appears that many here would just love to see SCI crumble, fail, and cease to exist in favor of DSC. That is an attitude I truly don't understand.

Todd,

I really don't think anyone here is hoping for the demise of SCI.

What I think many are trying to do is hope that the higher management of SCI would listen to what a lot of its members would like to see.

Sadly, so far everything that has been said seem to fall on deaf ears.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
For members and exhibitors to point out deficiencies and flaws, things that can be improved on, things to stop doing and things to start doing, etc. is not tearing down an organization. To the contrary, it is about building a better organization, an organization more responsive to the needs of its members. If the members and exhibitors do not provide constructive feedback, how are things supposed to get any better? Just look at the thread with the comments from exhibitors, clearly there are areas that require some attention. What is most disturbing is the sense that the feedback really does not matter, that the organization will not pay any attention and does not care. That is disturbing.

I agree. Criticism can be good constructive feedback.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Todd,

I really don't think anyone here is hoping for the demise of SCI.

What I think many are trying to do is hope that the higher management of SCI would listen to what a lot of its members would like to see.

Sadly, so far everything that has been said seem to fall on deaf ears.

SCI itself is managed by MEMBERS!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Todd,

I really don't think anyone here is hoping for the demise of SCI.

What I think many are trying to do is hope that the higher management of SCI would listen to what a lot of its members would like to see.

Sadly, so far everything that has been said seem to fall on deaf ears.

SCI itself is managed by MEMBERS!!!!

In theory yes, but members have absolutely no say in what goes on at headqarters.

Is there a CEO who stands over the member-elected executive - President and BOD?

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Todd,

I really don't think anyone here is hoping for the demise of SCI.

What I think many are trying to do is hope that the higher management of SCI would listen to what a lot of its members would like to see.

Sadly, so far everything that has been said seem to fall on deaf ears.

SCI itself is managed by MEMBERS!!!!

Matt,

You just simplified the point I have rather long windily, and quite possibly ineffectively, been trying to make. Thanks for the clarity!

Saeed,

I hear you. I've never, not once said here on AR, that SCI National is without issues. But if the people who are running it now, are not responding to the calls for change, continued bitching isn't going to effect any change in policy. The only way forward, to my way of thinking, is for new people, willing to listen and do things differently where changes need to be made, get involved and effect that change. People will be responsible for any changes made. Not some nebulous entity called SCI.

Todd, I am not sure we even disagree! I think you would agree with me that there are certainly things SCI should consider changing and that they should do a better job of listening to their members. I agree with you that name calling is futile and will never result in change and that those of us that would like to see things change need to be involved in trying to effectuate that change. I worry less about you and I seeing the way forward than those whose views are so polarized -- both ways -- that they are not willing to concede the merits of the other side's views even when the other side is clearly right.