I got a phone call from Guy Whittall (Roger Whittall Safaris) last night. He is in Dallas for DSC. He mentioned the unrest and WhatsApp being shut down, but thought this would settle down long before safari season. I'll be returning to Humani in July with my wife and son.

On a happier note, he said the rains have been excellent and he is expecting a great 2019 season. No matter how you slice it, it still looks much better than South Africa.

If you do decide to book/go to Zimbabwe be aware you may not be able to buy Trip Insurance. IIRC, you haven't been able to buy Trip Insurance since 2003 or any trip insurance that would actually cover these types of situations.

You can get medical insurance but not Trip insurance.

If for some reason, somebody does sell you trip insurance read the exclusions carefully about "terrorism, acts of war, civil unrest, etc"

Having been in a safari camp that was "overrun by local" and having to help the operator and his family pack-up there home and "bug out" in a matter of about 90 minutes, I can tell you it is a rather unpleasant experience.

The above occurred without me "doing anything stupid". There were no warning signs it happened suddenly and many months after all the unrest in the area had settled down.

I personally would not go. Having camp surrounded by a crowd of 15 or so men with axes and clubs in acting rabid manner is not a pleasant experience.

Riotous behavior can occur in many places not just in cities and it is extremely volatile and can be escalate rapidly.

Not to argue, Mike, but I bought Ripcord trip insurance for last year's trip to Zim. I did the "full Monty" package and they will evacuate you because of civil unrest, terrorism, and similar events. They will NOT spring you from prison if you get arrested, but will cover "extrajudicial" events.

This year we'll get health/evacuation and civil unrest coverage, but I will likely skip the cancellation insurance. If things go crazy, I'd of course stay home. But with the last trip, I spent two nights on the edge of Harare about 15 minutes from the airport, far from city center, and the rest of it in the Conservancy. We did drive through Mutare, but even that could have been avoided.

Now, Chicago? I'm NOT going to Chicago.

I think he means cancellation policy. In the event Zim melts down and you cancel or can’t complete the hunt the provider will not offer a policy to recoup the price of the hunt.

Yes, I am referring to cancellation insurance.

I had booked a trip in 2000 and had to cancel and had a difficult time collecting on non-refundable tickets because of the above. I did collect but it was fight.

I re-booked in 2001 but they would not sell me cancellation insurance because of the civil unrest and a lack of a rule of law.

I went back in 2003 and that was the hunt that was aborted because the camp was overrun.

As with any insurance, one has to know what is covered and what is excluded.

quote:

No matter how you slice it, it still looks much better than South Africa.

What looks much better than South Africa? The situation in Zimbabwe? Surely not. I was there in October...

I guess I would add that the camp I was in that was overrun was in a conservancy and was over a 120 miles from the closest city.

Additionally, the caucasian Zimbabwean population is incredibly "hearty" and "resourceful" and unfortunately they are also historically incredibly optimistic.

I will not forget that after being evac'd out to Vic Falls, I was having dinner with a couple local banker/finance guys who were 100% confident based on their "inside sources" that Mugabe was going to step down by year end and that an orderly transition would occur and everything would be OK next year. That was over a 15 years ago.

It goes without saying, that everyone has to make their own decision but I would caution folks that this most recent unrest occurred essentially overnight and was triggered by a doubling+ of fuel prices overnight that nobody predicted. Is that a risk you want to take with a vacation that took a year or more to plan and those types of dollars?

Folks,

I spoke to Gary Duckworth/Mokore Safaris yesterday. The situation in Zim is much the same as in '07-'08. The media had blood running in the streets then. I was there during that period and I saw nothing violent at all or even threatening. Economy was in the toilet but everybody was friendly. Gary thinks this will all blow over and they'll have a great and safe season. Don't get upset until the safari companies tell you not to come. They don't want clients to be in any danger.

Mark

Mark,

You are correct. The safari company does not want you in danger but when one assesses risk one must assess not only what they know but what they don't know.

The safari companies didn't know that this fuel crisis would get created over night.

What will the next crisis be? Most likely food. The safari companies aren't going to know beforehand if food prices are going to get doubled over night either. Last estimate I saw Zimbabwe can't feed itself.

In the scenario I endured, nobody knew we would be in danger the next day.

99% of folks will likely go and have no problem, it sucks to be in the 1%.

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Folks,

I spoke to Gary Duckworth/Mokore Safaris yesterday. The situation in Zim is much the same as in '07-'08. The media had blood running in the streets then. I was there during that period and I saw nothing violent at all or even threatening. Economy was in the toilet but everybody was friendly. Gary thinks this will all blow over and they'll have a great and safe season. Don't get upset until the safari companies tell you not to come. They don't want clients to be in any danger.

Mark

I was there as well Mark. October of 2008. Shortages everywhere including bottled water in camp. But never got the impression anything was dangerous, and that included making a border crossing at Beitbridge, going and coming. It was a mad house and I got questioned alone and away from the PH on the way in by Mugabe's special security guys. They were polite and I got the impression they were looking for a bribe. Didn't dare offer one. After about 10 mins, they said they had inconvenienced me enough as I gave them the impression I had spent my last dime to go on the hunt and had paid in advance. That actually wasn't far from the truth!!! lol

I'm scheduled to go, along with my oldest son, with Buzz this summer. I've got no plans to pull out unless Buzz says to stay home.

I received a video on WhatsApp of rioting in the streets lots of teargas, severed limbs and obvious execution style slaying (brains blown out at point blank range). Looks to be all black on black violence so far, but how long before they go after the white farmers?

The current president had blood on his hands from slaughtering black before.

I said this when he took over From Mugabe, that nothing is good coming out of his take over.

Lots of people here were saying give him a chance!

Not in my book!

I feel so sorry for people in Zimbabwe.

Both blacks and whites!

They certainly do not deserve this after suffering years under Mugabe!

I also was in Zim in September of 2008. I don't recall any violence then.
Email from Zim this am. Schoo;s opened two days this week but half the kids were gone. Food shopping in markets was done but shelves emptying from panic buying and my friends drove to school,market, and then home today. Perhpas is safer than is being reported.
C

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I feel so sorry for people in Zimbabwe.

Both blacks and whites!

They certainly do not deserve this after suffering years under Mugabe!

+1

So sad to see such shameful and disgraceful behavior continuing unabated in the post-Mugabe era.

The WhatsApp video I referenced in my earlier post turns out to be from prior year’s violence in Nigeria, NOT Zimbabwe as I thought . Sorry for the inaccuracy.

FAKE NEWS. We should all be very careful as to what we post as it could cause irreparable harm to the Zimbabwe operators.

Mark

Political unrest in Zimbabwe?

Being a hunter of dangerous game, I am accustomed to taking a little risk.

I mailed my completed contract along with my deposit earlier today.

In the interim, I will continue to include my professional hunter, his family, his team, my Zim friends, and the citizens of Zimbabwe in my thoughts and prayers.

Got the following this morning :

Yup just paid for $5 for a litre of milk and $2 for a loaf of bread. $3.33 liter of fuel. We heading back to 2008 but only taken 6 months not 30 years. But other wise all fine. How you guys doing? You going to Dallas?

Greetings!
I heard about the troubles from my travel agent Cheryl (Vic falls)
i am shepherding a group of non-Africa experienced travelers to southern Africa in may 2019, and of course, every one is concerned.
I AM NOT!
These things happen off and on anyway.
I am confident all will be well by the time we get to Vic Falls.
any comments?

I am going and will be there for the better part of June.

Sorry to miss you gentlemen. I will be there in August.
Cal

The problem is Nakihunter in your narrow view of history.Every part of the world and every population group have in the past suffered invasion, subjugation and even displacement from their lands . This is not just an issue for Africa or India . Many cultures and populations have come out of these situations much stronger rather than whinging about it .
At the same time you choose to ignore the benefits of colonialism in which knowledge, institutions and infrastructure were handed over. How long do you think it would have taken India to undergo an agricultural and industrial revolution? What about the system of democracy that governs India , the railways the education system and the healthcare system.If left alone this would have taken India hundreds of years .

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by mark smith:
The problem is Nakihunter in your narrow view of history.Every part of the world and every population group have in the past suffered invasion, subjugation and even displacement from their lands . This is not just an issue for Africa or India . Many cultures and populations have come out of these situations much stronger rather than whinging about it .
At the same time you choose to ignore the benefits of colonialism in which knowledge, institutions and infrastructure were handed over. How long do you think it would have taken India to undergo an agricultural and industrial revolution? What about the system of democracy that governs India , the railways the education system and the healthcare system.If left alone this would have taken India hundreds of years .

Mark

Democracy in India??

Not any better than so called "democracy"in any Western countries right now!

The downfall of democracy has been brought about by listening to the freak minorities!

Mate

You are spinning an outdated colonial argument that no honest and truly educated historian accepts today. Check pout Oxford, Cambridge references by The Economist etc. These are British research and publications.

Plenty of studies using complex algorithms and economic models by Oxford & Cambridge scholars show that the British empire plundered over 60 trillion GBP in today's money. What did the british do with all that plundered wealth?

The railways was not established for the benefit of India but to ship all the natural resources out of India.

India was the worlds no.1 in GDP for over 1500 years. India was not a backward society when the British came there. Britain was. All those colonial myths have been busted.

The days of whining and playing victim are long gone.

The progress of India and Indians in the global stage is obvious in the last 25 years.

Does India have problems. Yes of course. Are some of them really disgusting and disheartening. Yes. Definitely.

Let us not go on about education and healthcare. Indian scholarship is what took the West out of the dark ages. read Einstein. Indian traditional medicines are still being researched and adopted by current alopathic science.

What your colonial blindness refuses to accept is that the British ruined India - took it from no.1 to no 7 or so. They reduced Indian GDP from over 20% golobal GDP to even a negative GDP for a while.

Yes we do have criminals in Parliament & in power, no worse than the GOP and Trump.

BTW India has the world's largest English speaking country today! Just think of the positive impact Iindians are making around the world.

quote:

Originally posted by mark smith:
The problem is Nakihunter in your narrow view of history.Every part of the world and every population group have in the past suffered invasion, subjugation and even displacement from their lands . This is not just an issue for Africa or India . Many cultures and populations have come out of these situations much stronger rather than whinging about it .
At the same time you choose to ignore the benefits of colonialism in which knowledge, institutions and infrastructure were handed over. How long do you think it would have taken India to undergo an agricultural and industrial revolution? What about the system of democracy that governs India , the railways the education system and the healthcare system.If left alone this would have taken India hundreds of years .

Mark

quote:

BTW India has the world's largest English speaking country today! Just think of the positive impact Iindians are making around the world.

Thanks to those blood-sucking, plundering colonials.

If India was such an advanced place (taking the west out of the dark ages), had such a great economy, etc., then why didn't they boot the Brits out or, for that matter, why let them in the first place?

Also, if India is such a great place, why do so many move to western countries (such as New Zealand)?

Just wonderin'
Cal

Cal

You have Masters degree and teach history. So I am shocked that you should ask such questions.

History will tell you that India is a subcontinent with over 300 languages and over 2000 subcultures. It was never one Nation though it has been one country. Various empires and governments ruled India or parts of at various times over the last 2500 years.

I do not have to defend history. It is for you to do objective research and educate yourself.

Regarding skilled immigration, you explain why the US takes in so many Indians into NASA, Silicon valley, medical profession etc?

Simple demand and supply. the West cannot produce so many such skilled people. Countries like India produces high quality skilled people.

That is the basics of immigration / trade 101.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
If India was such an advanced place (taking the west out of the dark ages), had such a great economy, etc., then why didn't they boot the Brits out or, for that matter, why let them in the first place?

Also, if India is such a great place, why do so many move to western countries (such as New Zealand)?

Just wonderin'
Cal

Most of the brains behind everything new in the giant American tech firms are from India and other countries.

Americans don't want to think about this!

Saeed

Most Americans recognise this and respect such immigrants. Many such firms have hired Indians as CEOs in the last 10 years.

It is the Alt Right bigoted GOP loons who have an inferiority complex.

Supposedly educated people with responsible positions in society ask dumb questions based on stereotyped prejudices.

That bigoted ignorance and prejudice among a few is what has made so many enemies for America. Unfortunately this just tars the whole of America with the same brush.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Most of the brains behind everything new in the giant American tech firms are from India and other countries.

Americans don't want to think about this!

Mnangagwa's spokesperson says govt crackdown 'foretaste of things to come'
20 JANUARY 2019, 1:55PM

HARARE - A crackdown last week on protests in Zimbabwe is a foretaste of how the government will respond to future unrest, the president's spokesman said, fuelling concerns that the country is reverting to authoritarian rule.

Police say three people died during protests over fuel price hikes in Harare's capital and second city Bulawayo that turned violent. But human rights groups say evidence suggests at least a dozen people were killed while scores were treated for gunshot wounds.

"(The) government will not stand by while such narrow interests play out so violently. The response so far is just a foretaste of things to come," said President Emmerson Mnangagwa's spokesman George Charamba. Charamba told the state-controlled Sunday Mail newspaper the government would review some provisions of the constitution adopted in 2013, which he said were being abused by proponents of democracy.

Lawyers and activists say hundreds of Zimbabweans were detained last week accused of public order offences, including at least four lawmakers from the opposition MDC party and Evan Mawarire, a pastor who rose to prominence as a critic of former leader Robert Mugabe critic and led a national shutdown in 2016. Local rights groups say security forces, accused of night raids at homes of suspected protesters, are now trying to track down people who have gone into hiding.

A partial internet blackout was still in force on Sunday, two days after mobile networks sent messages to customers saying they had been ordered to keep social media sites shut until further notice.

When he was elected in July, Mnangagwa promised a clean break with the 37-year rule of Mugabe, who used the security forces to quell civilian protests before being forced out in a de facto coup in November 2017. But the MDC says former Mugabe ally Mnangagwa is now overseeing a reversion to authoritarian rule by using the same tactic.

Charamba, who is on an official trip with Mnangagwa to Azerbaijan, said the MDC leadership and affiliate organisations would be "held fully accountable for the violence and the looting." The MDC denies fomenting unrest.

U.N. rights officials denounced last week's crackdown, while an independent inquiry found that the army used excessive force when it stepped in to stop post-election violence last August, during which six people were shot dead.

Zimbabweans, who have seen their purchasing power eroded by soaring inflation, also say Mnangagwa has not delivered on pre-election pledges to kick-start economic growth after Mugabe's exit.

Reuters

I am also getting reports that police officers are invading homes and confiscating food!

It would be nice if we can keep this on Zimbabwe rather bring every other country into it.

You can argue as much as you like on the Political Forum.

I am allowing this here because it affects many of our members.

Your co-operation would be much appreciated.

IMAGINE THE WORLDS ATTENTION ZIMBABWE WOULD RECIEVE IF ALL THE PEOPLE BRUTALLY INJURED AND KILLED IN THE LAST WEEK WERE LIONS CALLED CECIL....

Coup. Not that it matters but cutting off communication is prohibited by their constitution.

Some general wasn’t taken care of after the last one and is pounding his chest while the current Pres is out of the country.

They all have dirt on each other.....nobody’s hands are clean.

May screw up a few months of hunting but should all come out in the wash later.

It ain’t their first rodeo.....

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Saeed

Most Americans recognise this and respect such immigrants. Many such firms have hired Indians as CEOs in the last 10 years.

It is the Alt Right bigoted GOP loons who have an inferiority complex.

Supposedly educated people with responsible positions in society ask dumb questions based on stereotyped prejudices.

That bigoted ignorance and prejudice among a few is what has made so many enemies for America. Unfortunately this just tars the whole of America with the same brush.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Most of the brains behind everything new in the giant American tech firms are from India and other countries.

Americans don't want to think about this!

I guess the alt-rt bigots are different from the Brahmins at the top of the caste system- WHICH IS STILL IN PLACE IN THE ENLIGHTENED COUNTRY OF INDIA- eh, Naki. I bet the untouchables digging through garbage outside the slums of Calcutta might take issue with your statement about the wonderful civilaztion still thriving in India after 1000 years of greatness. What a fucking joke....

The story I got was that this is not so different from the last X number of years under Mugabe, and is considered sort of normal in Zim...

Jerry

I have corresponded with you before and do not wish to get into a spat.

Yes the Brahmin extremists are also alt right in India. Look at Prime minister Modi and the Hindutva radicals in power. Bigots to the core. they burn churches, rape nuns, lynch muslims.

Bigotry is not the exclusive privilege of Trump. Modi took that mantle 2 years earlier! Modi's party of BIGOTS have been corrupting the interpretation of Hindu nationalism for about 90 years. The treacherous cowards have similar traits to Trump. They sold out India to the British just to avoid prison. The leader of the group even wrote a letter to the British apologising and surrendering to tyranny. All recorded in history,

It is sad to see so many Americans (particularly Republicans) who cannot see the world outside their own borders.

It would be good to see more Americans here show their wider awareness and understanding of the world outside the 4% global population or more than the 0.3% Republican population!

It would be great to see some objectivity.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Saeed

Most Americans recognise this and respect such immigrants. Many such firms have hired Indians as CEOs in the last 10 years.

It is the Alt Right bigoted GOP loons who have an inferiority complex.

Supposedly educated people with responsible positions in society ask dumb questions based on stereotyped prejudices.

That bigoted ignorance and prejudice among a few is what has made so many enemies for America. Unfortunately this just tars the whole of America with the same brush.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Most of the brains behind everything new in the giant American tech firms are from India and other countries.

Americans don't want to think about this!

I guess the alt-rt bigots are different from the Brahmins at the top of the caste system- WHICH IS STILL IN PLACE IN THE ENLIGHTENED COUNTRY OF INDIA- eh, Naki. I bet the untouchables digging through garbage outside the slums of Calcutta might take issue with your statement about the wonderful civilaztion still thriving in India after 1000 years of greatness. What a fucking joke....

Drove around Harare and suburbs a little this morning. All is quiet and businesses are open as per any other Monday. No appreciable police presence.

WhatsApp, Twitter, YouTube and FB still seem to be down, though some messages have been coming through over W/A; internet, Gmail, &c., all working.

There's been a lot of infantile clickbait circulating over the weekend about the impending apocalypse, but it seems to be just that, infantile clickbait.

Mnangagwa is due to return today - and probably on a scheduled flight and not at the head of a mercenary army from Zambia - so let's see what happens.

Naki,

Instead of preaching socialism on AR you ought to put your theory into practice by shedding your NZ citizenry, return to the homeland, kick Modi's ass
and Make India Great Again.

Leave Trump out of the argument seeing he's got fuck all to do with either Zimbabwe and/or India.

quote:

Leave Trump out of the argument seeing he's got fuck all to do with either Zimbabwe and/or India.

Good proposal 'cause Trump won't be able to pinpoint those countries on a map.