With apologies in advance if anyone is offended, I just have to say that driving a park boundary all day waiting (hoping) to catch an elephant wondering out of a park or trying to catch one out of the park at night and shooting it before it can get back to the park, just does not sound like a quality elephant hunt. Sometimes the quality of the hunt is not measured in the quality of trophy. I would rather track an elephant bull all day long and shoot a mature bull that weighs 45 pounds/side late in the day than chase an 80 pounder down that is spotted as it tries to beat its way back into a national park. One feels like a hunt, the other feels more like an ambush. Just a personal preference I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by JCHB:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jeff h:


When I booked this hunt I booked under the ONE condition I would be the only hunter in camp. I have e-mails to back this up and so does Phillip.

The above comment is the crux of the matter. Hunts are not always successful (hence hunts and not shoots) but the outfitter has a responsibility to provide for the hunter's reasonable requests. To book on the basis of having the camp to oneself is reasonable. I too would not want other hunters in the same area I was hunting. To pay your money on the expectation of being the only one in camp and then finding this not to be the case is unacceptable given the effort and cost involved. The hunter had made this a primary condition of booking the hunt.

I would not expect this of a top outfit.
JCHB

I would have told him to send his other hunters to another camp, or I take the charter back the next day.

There is absolutely no excuse for this sort of thing to happen to clients who specifically asked to have the camp for themselves.

ABSOLUTELY! when the only stipulation you make is to have the camp/area to yourself, there is no excuse for this

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
With apologies in advance if anyone is offended, I just have to say that driving a park boundary all day waiting (hoping) to catch an elephant wondering out of a park or trying to catch one out of the park at night and shooting it before it can get back to the park, just does not sound like a quality elephant hunt. Sometimes the quality of the hunt is not measured in the quality of trophy. I would rather track an elephant bull all day long and shoot a mature bull that weighs 45 pounds/side late in the day than chase an 80 pounder down that is spotted as it tries to beat its way back into a national park. One feels like a hunt, the other feels more like an ambush. Just a personal preference I guess.

Amen brother Mike! Amen!!!

quote:

Originally posted by tygersman:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
I guess the other 8 unsuccessful hunters (that we know of) are brats too?

Are they here complaining? Other than the OP who has a legit gripe, I've yet to see anything other than a couple conspiracy theorists getting the gas and pitch forks ready.

BTW, I think super deals are one thing - exceptional quality is another.

do you think that everyone who hunts Africa posts here???????

Mike,
I succesfully hunted elephants with Nixon. Matter of fact, I shot two. Both in their 50's. In Malapati and the communal area you don't just drive down a road bordering the park. You drive internal roads looking for tracks. When you find a good one, you set out on foot and track up the bull. That is how both of mine were taken.

I thought enough of Nixon and his operation I returned for a leopard. I was succesful on the leopard also.

I do however agree with others that if camp exlusiveness was promised and not delivered, that is a problem. To be more clear, I would ask for camp and area exclusiveness.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by tygersman:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
I guess the other 8 unsuccessful hunters (that we know of) are brats too?

Are they here complaining? Other than the OP who has a legit gripe, I've yet to see anything other than a couple conspiracy theorists getting the gas and pitch forks ready.

BTW, I think super deals are one thing - exceptional quality is another.

do you think that everyone who hunts Africa posts here???????

Nope. But a lot who have hunted with SSG do.

It's not rocket science. Of all those who have hunted with SSG (who post here), I heard one significant issue - from the OP. I may have missed one, but the rest of the SSG negativity came from speculation (putting aside the very legit discussion of quotas, which apparently is a Zim-wide issue).

Do you suggest we presume all the guys who don't post here had negative experiences?????? May I instead suggest that we rely upon the folks who've actually been there in the field and have taken the time to report back?

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
With apologies in advance if anyone is offended, I just have to say that driving a park boundary all day waiting (hoping) to catch an elephant wondering out of a park or trying to catch one out of the park at night and shooting it before it can get back to the park, just does not sound like a quality elephant hunt. Sometimes the quality of the hunt is not measured in the quality of trophy. I would rather track an elephant bull all day long and shoot a mature bull that weighs 45 pounds/side late in the day than chase an 80 pounder down that is spotted as it tries to beat its way back into a national park. One feels like a hunt, the other feels more like an ambush. Just a personal preference I guess.

Mike:

I tend to agree with you, but that's not my impression of all the ele hunting with SSG.

Not to be argumentative, but I wonder how many of the ele hunted in Zim were shot coming from or going to water, even if not in close proximity at the time of the shot?

Do you duck hunt? The vast majority of ducks are shot going and coming from natural food sources.

Do you hunt deer? Many are shot going and coming from bedding areas and food.

Lions and leopards are mostly shot coming to baits hung by hunters, no?

Isn't all game going or coming from somewhere?

The truth is we use some mechanism or necessity of life against the game to our advantage (be it the rut, water, food, perceived safety).

I've been on a few hunts that maybe I was surprised a few times others shared the area for other game or the same game in near by land. I would say for the most part that several of the encounters have left me with some very special life long friendships. One fellow in particular became almost like a replacement father to me, he gave me good advice on life, finances and with that advice I will forever be indebted to him as he changed my life oh for the better.

Mike my friend,

I know you object to the night hunting of Elephant anywhere, but the daylight elephant hunting with SSG is no different than that in the Zambezi valley, it all starts with a tract observed while driving a road. My Ele in Malpati was taken like my Elephant in Gokwe North----cut a track, followed, shot the Elephant. I'm sure Russ Broom and Martin Pieters recent clients are proud of their Elephants even though they just left Hwange Park.

BTW, no offense taken.

quote:

Originally posted by BEGNO:
Mike my friend,

I know you object to the night hunting of Elephant anywhere, but the daylight elephant hunting with SSG is no different than that in the Zambezi valley, it all starts with a tract observed while driving a road. My Ele in Malpati was taken like my Elephant in Gokwe North----cut a track, followed, shot the Elephant. I'm sure Russ Broom and Martin Pieters recent clients are proud of their Elephants even though they just left Hwange Park.

BTW, no offense taken.

+1

you cut tracks and start tracking--just like anywhere else-and I dont see a difference between a Park boundary and an area boundary- every area has its limits.

SSR

I would also agree that Zim Forestry areas are excellent for elephant. The bulls are relatively calm, and it is good tracking style hunting.

I had a good 60#'er earlier this year.

Shame on SSG if they promised exclusivity and did not deliver. That seems to be the only salient complaint I heard here.

So what if SSG is offering a large number of hunts- as near as I can tell, anyone who shoots an over 65# elephant is essentially working off luck anyhow, although you have to be in a good area to even get that chance....

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
With apologies in advance if anyone is offended, I just have to say that driving a park boundary all day waiting (hoping) to catch an elephant wondering out of a park or trying to catch one out of the park at night and shooting it before it can get back to the park, just does not sound like a quality elephant hunt. Sometimes the quality of the hunt is not measured in the quality of trophy. I would rather track an elephant bull all day long and shoot a mature bull that weighs 45 pounds/side late in the day than chase an 80 pounder down that is spotted as it tries to beat its way back into a national park. One feels like a hunt, the other feels more like an ambush. Just a personal preference I guess.

Mike,

I have hunted and shot elephants coming out of the park, and I really do not consider it any different than a lot of hunts, from my own point of view.

Elephants used to come and wait under some trees just inside the park, and late in the afternoon, they start to feed.

Some of them came into our concession.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with this, as we have spent days on end following other elephants that have ended up either in the park, or in another concession.

When I do get an easy one, I take it, I don't complain

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I think the best area depends on the species one is seeking .

Larry put it perfectly

Park animals are not wild animals,IMO.I would not want one in my trophy room no matter what the size.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Park animals are not wild animals,IMO.I would not want one in my trophy room no matter what the size.

Spoken like a great hunter!

Do you think elephants know the park boundary?

If they did, they would remain in there, safely kept from nasty hunters like us who would just as easily shoot them as any elephant we find on our concession.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Park animals are not wild animals,IMO.I would not want one in my trophy room no matter what the size.

What???????
Do you want to think a little about what you just posted?
Try climb out of the car and apt the nice pussy cat lions on the head in the Kruger or elsewhere. Or maybe stroke an elephants trunk? Or cuddle up to Pumba?
JCHB

I just dont want a trophy that tourists have given a name and maybe fed peanuts to.

quote:

Originally posted by JCHB:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Park animals are not wild animals,IMO.I would not want one in my trophy room no matter what the size.

What???????
Do you want to think a little about what you just posted?
Try climb out of the car and apt the nice pussy cat lions on the head in the Kruger or elsewhere. Or maybe stroke an elephants trunk? Or cuddle up to Pumba?
JCHB

I have banned parks and zoos from my list of places to visit so that wont be a problem.

quote:

Originally posted by Frik Muller:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Aaron,

Thanks for that and I did not realise that Nixon was hunting five prime blocks.

Andrew, 60 Buff is excessive if you take into account that we are supposed to get 2% of an areas resident buffalo population. 4 of his blocks have less than 100 resident buf.His main block has a few more.

However these area where always buffer zones between the park and commercial areas, to stop the spread of Foot and Mouth, so the quotas have always been high .The genetics in the Kruger and Gonarezou has always been good .If he spent some money on his main area and put in a lot of water points with anti-poaching as well as good hunting principles, it could easily become the best area in Zim.

Thanks Frick and therefore I might conclude that the excellent Mr Nixon's operation is a bit stretched?

However never have I seen such fine ivory coming out of Zimbabwe and I do hope this is not due to pressure within the Parks as once that resource is finished there will be no feeder areas.

I do hope Nixon follows your advice and then he and future generations can then profit from these simple conservation measures.

This conversation has taken a funny turn! What exactly is the difference between cutting a track on the park boundary, following it, and shooting the elephant relative to cutting a track on an interior road, following the elephant, and shooting it? If one followed that "interior road track" back far enough, they might just find that it crossed the park boundary road to begin with...the bull just wasn't followed from there! I can see why a hunter might get a bit bored driving in circles around the boundary of the concession to check what has come in from the park(s), but just because one mixes up the route a bit doesn't mean that the elephant didn't ultimately (and likely) come from the same place. All hunting is in some sense "ambush" and it has been that way for...oh....tens of thousands of years ever since we got that "capability for abstract thought" thing going.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
With apologies in advance if anyone is offended, I just have to say that driving a park boundary all day waiting (hoping) to catch an elephant wondering out of a park or trying to catch one out of the park at night and shooting it before it can get back to the park, just does not sound like a quality elephant hunt. Sometimes the quality of the hunt is not measured in the quality of trophy. I would rather track an elephant bull all day long and shoot a mature bull that weighs 45 pounds/side late in the day than chase an 80 pounder down that is spotted as it tries to beat its way back into a national park. One feels like a hunt, the other feels more like an ambush. Just a personal preference I guess.

Mike, ya good point - and I agree. But, that's not really an accurate assessment of most elephant hunts at SSG or the area. As others have pointed out, they too have tracked bulls in these areas. I know I certainly could have/did as well. Night shooting, its legal in some areas - and not wanting to do that is certainly understandable too.

Like someone else mentioned - every area has its boundary somewhere, with something.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
do you think that everyone who hunts Africa posts here???????

Rhetorical question Im sure. 90 % of my clients have never heard of AR unfortunately

hunting is hunting, sometimes its good,sometimes not so good. Good areas can have rains, plenty of water or no rain etc.
A P.H also makes the world of differance.
As usualy this can go round in circles.
Not everyone can go on a safari and get a 100pd elephant.
I think the bottom line is the area being shared after instructions to the contrary. thats not really on.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by JCHB:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Park animals are not wild animals,IMO.I would not want one in my trophy room no matter what the size.

What???????
Do you want to think a little about what you just posted?
Try climb out of the car and apt the nice pussy cat lions on the head in the Kruger or elsewhere. Or maybe stroke an elephants trunk? Or cuddle up to Pumba?
JCHB

I have banned parks and zoos from my list of places to visit so that wont be a problem.

What a pity. I was going to buy you an unlimited supply of peanuts to test your theory on a few "tame" beasts in the nearest park to me (Hluhluwe/Umfolozi)
JCHB

quote:

Originally posted by leopards valley safaris:


hunting is hunting, sometimes its good,sometimes not so good. Good areas can have rains, plenty of water or no rain etc.
A P.H also makes the world of differance.
As usualy this can go round in circles.
Not everyone can go on a safari and get a 100pd elephant.
I think the bottom line is the area being shared after instructions to the contrary. thats not really on.

Conditions such as rain fall can drastically alter the quality of the area. I have been on 2 HORRIBLE safaris. In retrospect, drought was the problem both times.

quote:

Originally posted by JCHB:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by JCHB:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Park animals are not wild animals,IMO.I would not want one in my trophy room no matter what the size.

What???????
Do you want to think a little about what you just posted?
Try climb out of the car and apt the nice pussy cat lions on the head in the Kruger or elsewhere. Or maybe stroke an elephants trunk? Or cuddle up to Pumba?
JCHB

I have banned parks and zoos from my list of places to visit so that wont be a problem.

What a pity. I was going to buy you an unlimited supply of peanuts to test your theory on a few "tame" beasts in the nearest park to me (Hluhluwe/Umfolozi)
JCHB

I was at a zoo once when I was young and in school.I was at the ele section and there was an ele in front of me.There was a peanut vending machine and to my surprise I had a nickel in my pocket.I got a small handfull of peanuts and I thought,would the ele really eat them if I stuck out my hand? To my surprise,he did! On another trip I was at a drive through safari park and we drove right up to a cape buff.There were tears running down the buffs face and I asked my mother,why was the buff crying? My mother laughed for awhile.I figured the buff was crying because he was separated from his friends in Africa.

I hunted with Nixon in Feb '12....w/Tim Herald....after buff and ele. As Larry stated earlier, my hunt is airing on Nolser Magnum TV again tonight 2am est. Day one- We tracked (walked..following tracks) for several hours in 105 degree temp...the real deal way to hunt an elephant! I shot a 70-80lber..too high on the brain shot....that's a story in itself....elephant was not found and this was THE lowest point of my hunter career!
Day 3 We drove up to a 60-70lb elephant. I did not take it...We had 6 inches of rain that night and did not see another elephant for remainder of hunt. Could only access 40-50% of my hunting area. Now, the crops were terrible that year and the murula? fruits were also coming in very late.
I had a great time...hunted hard and everything I witnessed was done ethically...not finding the elephant..extreme heat (you will see on the show) and the elephant went deep in the Park. We tracked him after the shot for about 25 Km...I called off the tracking for safety reasons..NO more water and 10Km from road.
We concentrated on elephant most of the remaining hunt (deciding on the night of day three to continueing hunting elephant since another tag was available). We did track up one buff..I was within 20yds of the bedded animal...he departed before I was able to make him out in the undergrowth.
The weather and bad crops hurt our hunt...would I hunt with Nixon again? YES!

My $.02 worth

I booked a Moose hunt in the Yukon a few years ago with the agreement I would be in one of the camps that had Grizzly and Mtn Caribou. I was very clear on this for over 2 years and through many phone conversations, emails,etc.

Got to camp and talked to the guide. One Mtn Caribou had come through camp years ago not one seen since.

Had never been a grizzly shot at this camp ever.

Found out that some of the other camps had caribou and grizzly.

Was I disappointed, absolutely, did it ruin my hunt, no way. Would I go back again, absolutely. Can I control what others do; not a chance.

I was not happy about it and we discussed it but it is what it is. I don't think the outfitter really cared about the add on's other than it would have been a bunch of money in their pockets had I pulled the trigger.

It can be in writing and have every basis cover but sometimes stuff happens.

Jeff,
Sorry to hear about your unsuccessful hunt and your probs with Nixon.

quote:

Originally posted by LittleJoe:
I booked a Moose hunt in the Yukon a few years ago with the agreement I would be in one of the camps that had Grizzly and Mtn Caribou. I was very clear on this for over 2 years and through many phone conversations, emails,etc.

Got to camp and talked to the guide. One Mtn Caribou had come through camp years ago not one seen since.

Had never been a grizzly shot at this camp ever.

Found out that some of the other camps had caribou and grizzly.

Was I disappointed, absolutely, did it ruin my hunt, no way. Would I go back again, absolutely. Can I control what others do; not a chance.

I was not happy about it and we discussed it but it is what it is. I don't think the outfitter really cared about the add on's other than it would have been a bunch of money in their pockets had I pulled the trigger.

It can be in writing and have every basis cover but sometimes stuff happens.

Yes Sir

leopards - A lot of us here on AR, some more than others, have a tendency to think that everyone who hunts Africa are AR members. I seriously doubt if even 1% of the folks that hunt Africa have ever heard of AR or this site. That's why I always have a good laugh when the SCI bashers come on here as it's most likely about the same % involved in this endeavor. We are but a small fish in a very large pond on ALL matters. Thinking differently is "wishful thinking" I do believe. I just enjoy the site, but in know way think we really have much influence and can ever change much in the real World.

Larry Sellers
SCI (International)Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by leopards valley safaris:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
do you think that everyone who hunts Africa posts here???????

Rhetorical question Im sure. 90 % of my clients have never heard of AR unfortunately

hunting is hunting, sometimes its good,sometimes not so good. Good areas can have rains, plenty of water or no rain etc.
A P.H also makes the world of differance.
As usualy this can go round in circles.
Not everyone can go on a safari and get a 100pd elephant.
I think the bottom line is the area being shared after instructions to the contrary. thats not really on.

I could not agree more. I have made 6 trips to Africa. On each of these trips, I have chatted with other hunters in the airports, hotels or in the field. When I meet someone, I always ask if they post on AR. Not a single one of these hunters said they post on AR. I'm guessing my sample size is at least 50 or 60 hunters. On the first couple trips I was shocked by this. I just assumed that most everyone that hunts in Africa also posts here on AR. At this point I would be shocked if I met a hunter in Africa that is a member here.

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
leopards - A lot of us here on AR, some more than others, have a tendency to think that everyone who hunts Africa are AR members. I seriously doubt if even 1% of the folks that hunt Africa have ever heard of AR or this site. That's why I always have a good laugh when the SCI bashers come on here as it's most likely about the same % involved in this endeavor. We are but a small fish in a very large pond on ALL matters. Thinking differently is "wishful thinking" I do believe. I just enjoy the site, but in know way think we really have much influence and can ever change much in the real World.

Larry Sellers
SCI (International)Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by leopards valley safaris:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
do you think that everyone who hunts Africa posts here???????

Rhetorical question Im sure. 90 % of my clients have never heard of AR unfortunately

hunting is hunting, sometimes its good,sometimes not so good. Good areas can have rains, plenty of water or no rain etc.
A P.H also makes the world of differance.
As usualy this can go round in circles.
Not everyone can go on a safari and get a 100pd elephant.
I think the bottom line is the area being shared after instructions to the contrary. thats not really on.

Mike,

I agree 100%. As noted in other posts, all areas have boundaries. However in some areas the vast majority of sightings or spoor of the targeted game animals are in close proximity to boundaries, like national parks. That type of hunt is just not appealing to me, (and those hunts do exist). I'd much rather shoot a lessor trophy and hunt a wider area. I really enjoy the tracking aspect of elephant hunting.

By the way, I am not making any sort of statement or judgement of SSG. I've never been there, so I can't speak to the quality of experience at SSG.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
With apologies in advance if anyone is offended, I just have to say that driving a park boundary all day waiting (hoping) to catch an elephant wondering out of a park or trying to catch one out of the park at night and shooting it before it can get back to the park, just does not sound like a quality elephant hunt. Sometimes the quality of the hunt is not measured in the quality of trophy. I would rather track an elephant bull all day long and shoot a mature bull that weighs 45 pounds/side late in the day than chase an 80 pounder down that is spotted as it tries to beat its way back into a national park. One feels like a hunt, the other feels more like an ambush. Just a personal preference I guess.

Texas Blue.

Well you never know. This year is the first time I've shared camp with someone I didn't know. He turned out to be a regular on the AR Forum and I have read his hunt reports.

On the way home I found myself sitting at the Bulawayo Airport waiting to board the flight to JNB and got in a conversation with a nice young guy who turned out to be Shawn Buffy who PH's in the Bubye and is quite familiar with this forum.

I guess you just aren't lucky!

Cond45,

That's funny. I'll actually be hunting with Shawn in the BVC in July. It will be my first hunt with Shawn. I'm taking my 15 year old son and my father. It should be a blast.

quote:

Originally posted by conditionone45:
Texas Blue.

Well you never know. This year is the first time I've shared camp with someone I didn't know. He turned out to be a regular on the AR Forum and I have read his hunt reports.

On the way home I found myself sitting at the Bulawayo Airport waiting to board the flight to JNB and got in a conversation with a nice young guy who turned out to be Shawn Buffy who PH's in the Bubye and is quite familiar with this forum.

I guess you just aren't lucky!

I tracked my ass off with SSG. Lost 15 lbs in two weeks.
I wish I could just drive and shoot, LOL.
Loved every minute of it including everyone I met there, and I was told I"ll be the only hunter in camp.
Met Larry from Iowa, who was hunting buff and hippo and we got along great.
Hunting should be tough and we should expect unexpected.
That's the beauty of it and why we or most of us go there in first place.

+1

quote:

Originally posted by Safari2:

quote:

Originally posted by A.Dahlgren:
Hi Peter

A bit off topic but can you list the top 3 areas in Zim today in your opinion and why.

Skip the conservancies

Thanks

I have not been to Zim since 91'but I will take a stab at it and see where they fall when Peter gets back with us:

Matetsi (Don't know the specific # but it is Peter Johnstone's old area).

An area called Rifa

Buzz's area in Dande.

For an all bag area Matetsi 1 it has the broad spectrum of both dangerous and plains game . Then Ngamo Sikumi and Kazuma Pande Masui. Of course Bubye has to rank right up there as well. Rifa has always been good for Dangerous game as most Valley Areas but is limited on plains game .

Just my opinion

quote:

Originally posted by Russ B:

quote:

Originally posted by Safari2:

quote:

Originally posted by A.Dahlgren:
Hi Peter

A bit off topic but can you list the top 3 areas in Zim today in your opinion and why.

Skip the conservancies

Thanks

I have not been to Zim since 91'but I will take a stab at it and see where they fall when Peter gets back with us:

Matetsi (Don't know the specific # but it is Peter Johnstone's old area).

An area called Rifa

Buzz's area in Dande.

For an all bag area Matetsi 1 it has the broad spectrum of both dangerous and plains game . Then Ngamo Sikumi and Kazuma Pande Masui. Of course Bubye has to rank right up there as well. Rifa has always been good for Dangerous game as most Valley Areas but is limited on plains game .

Just my opinion

Thanks Russ...which Matetsi area is P. Johnstone's old area? I am thinking # 5?

Now George, you musn't worry. You'd have to shoot the one with tusks. Those are the bulls.


Dutch

I will shoot the ones with big tusks alright you can count on that,flaco!

remember, George, the cows have tusks, too. and since you seem to have a hard time telling the difference between large and small horns, you might have a hard time telling the difference between large and small tusks. maybe you should wait and let the PH TELL YOU WHICH ONE TO SHOOT! just saying.....