I have many friend in Africa that carry handguns ,like i use too here in Argentina ,while hunting big game .Our friend ganyana carried a 41magnum ,the late Geoffroy de Gentile carried a glock 10 ,and many more carry different types of handguns ,while others believe they arent necesary.Today i carry a glock 40 only in special circusntances ,im getting old and im traveling as ligth as possibly .
What do you think a handgun its and avantage or another thing to take care off .

Never hunted Africa and never will.
BUT, I fully believe and always wear a revolver when hunting no matter what. That would have to be legal in the hunting area though. Here in Colorado we can wear one on the street, or with permit concealed. Exposed we can expect the LEO's to hassle us or at least check things out depending on the cop of course.

I used to carry a Blackhawk .30 carbine, but, have gone to a .45 Colt just in case the rifle is out of reach when game comes along. Like while in camp or such. It's big enough for elk, I load it with a 330gr hard cast and would use it out to 100yds as I've practiced with it a lot.

George

About as useful as tits on a nun.

But if you are inclined to carry one then remove the front sight so when a Lion shoves it up your arse it is easier to remove.

I've had 2 PHs - out of 19 - who carried handguns openly and suspect others had one close at hand. One in Zim was a former copper and he carried a .357 S&W Mdl. 19. Second in RSA carried a Glock.

In the old days, before RSA instituted their draconian firearms laws, I carried a custom S&W 629 .44mag with a Mag-Na-Port 3" bbl on every safari to RSA and Zim, using it as a finisher when needed. I have also hunted Mozambique and Zambia with a .480Ruger and a S&W 500, taking world record antelope and DG.

Although more difficult now, handguns may still be taken into most African countries, as long as the legal requirements are met. However, I haven't done since 2005.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
About as useful as tits on a nun.

But if you are inclined to carry one then remove the front sight so when a Lion shoves it up your arse it is easier to remove.

I have seen three PHs with handguns. They included a 1911 45ACP, a Browning 9 MM and a Ruger single action Blackhawk in I believe 357. All were worn when we went into the leopard blind. That was the only time I ever saw them.

I always have my CZ 9mmP on my side when hunting or not.

I dispatches small game without having to blast the trophy away or to stick it to death with a Bowie.

The way I see it is it's like insurance - you hate to pay it but when you need it you sure are happy to have it.

quote:

Originally posted by LJS:
I have seen three PHs with handguns. They included a 1911 45ACP, a Browning 9 MM and a Ruger single action Blackhawk in I believe 357. All were worn when we went into the leopard blind. That was the only time I ever saw them.

+1
The only time I ever saw PH wear a handgun was when he took his .357 Mag revolver into the leopard blind. He told me he once had a leopard stick its head through the viewing slit into the blind to see if anyone was there! After that, he always carried his .357 into the blind with him.

Collen van der Linden carries a 44 magnum in the truck. A couple of years ago, he shot a charging cow elephant out the window of the truck with the pistol. Knocked her down. Finished her with a rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
About as useful as tits on a nun.

But if you are inclined to carry one then remove the front sight so when a Lion shoves it up your arse it is easier to remove.

First I thought someone wanted to use a handgun on his PH!

Then Andrew comes up with this!

I've only been there once for plains game in Namibia. I was surprised that my PH carried a 629 in 44. To put it mildly, he hated snakes. He shot a mamba and a puff adder, each with one shot, both at about ten yards. He was a way better shot shooting one handed than me. He did take it out when we went up on my gemsbok. His Dad had a long, nasty scar up his right leg from an almost dead gemsbok.
Bfly

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
About as useful as tits on a nun.

But if you are inclined to carry one then remove the front sight so when a Lion shoves it up your arse it is easier to remove.

The man does have a way with words....

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
About as useful as tits on a nun.

But if you are inclined to carry one then remove the front sight so when a Lion shoves it up your arse it is easier to remove.

It also won't hurt as much while he's doing the shoving...

I dont work in Africa but i worked for the biggest safari company in South America ,and since 15 years ago im working for Juans outfitt LOS DOGOS,i guide mostly hogs and birds sometimes buffalo ,i always carried a Colt anaconda 44mag and abig knife .Now im carrying a small knife and a glock 9 i believe the big revolver and the big knife are too heavy to work the day long.I use the guns mostly to dispacht injured game .

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Collen van der Linden carries a 44 magnum in the truck. A couple of years ago, he shot a charging cow elephant out the window of the truck with the pistol. Knocked her down. Finished her with a rifle.

I thought shooting from vehicles in Zimbabwe was illegal? I assume Collen has all her papers as a registered Ph in Zimbabwe as well.

Im remembering that billinthewild -Bill Berlat-in one of his safaris with us told me that Dannie van Graan of Engoyameni safaris and friend of Jeff Cooper always carry a 1911 45acp in condition one .

Pepe Sodiro an argentine weatherby nominee and old local PH -i worked for him -said that while hunting in Rhodesia all his Phs carried pistols and they gave him a 357 that he left in the lodge after the first long walk .He da been hunting in Rhodesia many times for long periods of times during the bush war ,one time he hunted with PATU uniform and ak in his hands and his weatherby in his back .This was told to Juan ,hes a close friend of him, and some of this histories are publised in his books .

Rudy Lubin while in CAR he carried a 44 magnum ,i believe was a Ruger .In Pondoro book African Rifles and Cartriges there is a chapter on this matter .

I had one PH in '96 that carried a nickel plated Colt 357 and proceeded to shoot several of my trophies that were in the last moments of life as we came up on them. I didn't see it as necessary. I think the guy kind of saw himself as a unique character in the world of hunting and the handgun just added to the persona he wanted to project.

Mark

A PH / landowner in camp during my first safari (Limpopo) carried a sidearm at all times. Never got the idea that it was for game animals though.

Originally posted by HCC:

quote:

I thought shooting from vehicles in Zimbabwe was illegal?

IMO the actual shooting of the elephant would bear greater consequences than it being shot from the vehicle.

A lot of explaining would be required to convince the authorities that such a drastic measure had to be deployed to protect the occupants of the vehicle.

...a very famous PH-Teacher in SA allways carried a firearm, mostly an clock 9 mm (Version I) with black tallon bullets.
On hunting or not...

quote:

Originally posted by HCC:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Collen van der Linden carries a 44 magnum in the truck. A couple of years ago, he shot a charging cow elephant out the window of the truck with the pistol. Knocked her down. Finished her with a rifle.

I thought shooting from vehicles in Zimbabwe was illegal? I assume Collen has all her papers as a registered Ph in Zimbabwe as well.

Hunting is. Defending oneself from close quarters attack is not, especially on private property.

One PH in ZW short barreled 44 Magnum in the blind. Another PH in Westafrica gave me his Automag for my lion follow up. I was aware of the limitations of that pistol for the task. But why not.

I don't think the pistol is particularly useful, or intended, for four legged critters, in either Africa, or South Texas. But, some places in Africa, and everywhere in South Texas, they seem to be advisable.

Somewhere I must have missed this but I have several videos of Bongo, etc. which he is in. What happened to Geoffery de Gentile? Maybe I have been asleep.

Thanks,

Geoffroy de Gentile always carried a glock 10mm ,he used it to kill a poacher in a shoot out in Congo .After that he moved to Vietnam sadly he died there last year of a heart attack .

Personally, I always thought the use for a handgun was to always have it with you (ie on your person) so that if you were surprised somehow, you could defend yourself (whether it was a 2 legged or 4 legged threat...) if you had nothing better to do so with.

In the hunting field, I would expect to have my rifle (except in the car) and I can't really say I can see any reason to shoot an animal in the car.

A PH guiding PG (or someone running dogs) I could see from the perspective of you would have it when needed.

While hunting DG? Is there some reason you DON'T have a rifle? (a limited exception would be crawling in after a wounded cat) I would rather I shot my insurance with my rifle than the PH do so with his pistol, anyhow.

I also have never heard of a PH backing up a handgun hunter with a handgun....

It looks like the common thread of the guys who carried the handguns in africa is as defense against people.

They can come in handy from time to time.

Bert Klineburger has written of an episode in which Gerard Pasanisi used a .45 ACP 1911 to shoot a raging leopard off the hood of his Jeep.

It's hard to wield a rifle while driving, mais non?

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I don't think the pistol is particularly useful, or intended, for four legged critters, in either Africa, or South Texas. But, some places in Africa, and everywhere in South Texas, they seem to be advisable.

+1

I’ve never carried a handgun in Africa, but am never without one in Alaska! When we hunt in Alaska I carry a 41 Mag Blackhawk in a tanker chest holster just inside my rain gear to keep it dry, and so it is immediately available when my rifle is not close, like in camp or when fishing on the streams where we always camp.

The area where we hunt is just a few miles from the Katmai park where the very large brown bears feed on the salmon runs, and are used to people being around. In September while we are hunting Moose and Caribou, the bears are traveling back to the hills to dig their winter dens, and are passing through our area by several per day. These bears are so used to people that they will walk right into our camp and take what ever they want. So if my rifle is in the tent to keep it dry while we do camp chores the old Blackhawk is exactly where it needs to be.

In Africa where I see the hand gun to be an asset is when it can be used to moving close and shoot a lion off someone where a handgun is far easier to brain a lion without shooting the guy under him than doing the same with a rifle.

In my everyday life I always carry a concealed handgun on my person, as a matter of fact as I type this, there is a fully loaded 45 ACP handgun on my right hip under my shirt where it is always. I’ve never even thought of taking a handgun to Africa, but it could be a valuable thing to have in some circumstances, like driving around in JoeBurg where the REAL: dangerous animals roam!

.............................................................

I've quite enough (more important) things on my belt already: heavy cartridges, GPS, hunting knife, 2 way radio, leatherman tool, (sometimes a small camera). Couldn't pay me to pack around a nearly useless handgun in the bush!! (Ditto for uncomfortable shoulder holster rig). But yes, a handgun might be real handy in the RARE event a big cat was on top of you. Other than that....just dead weight!

A long gun out performs a handgun at every turn so why carry both?

However, If I find myself in baboon country you can bet that my S&W Pro Hunter II .44 is on me along with extra cartridges. Hate them bobo's and they're not worthy of a rifle cartridge...

Have seen a handful of PHs with a side arm. They generally also have a lot of bangle bracelets, long hair, open shirt, and carry their rifle by the muzzle for added effect.

quote:

, like driving around in JoeBurg where the REAL: dangerous animals roam!

amen

Oh, you nonbelievers. I've hunted with nothing but a handgun since 1978. Did the Dangerous Seven plus another 40+ plainsgame, 2 brown bear, elk, moose. I can equal any rifle with my handguns.
On the other hand, I respect people that know their limitations!

Jan du Plessis, the PH I've hunted twice with in Namibia, always carries a. 44 Mag on his hip when in the field. When I dropped a 55" kudu bull with a single shot from my .300 WSM, he continued to flop around as we approached him. Jan took his. 44 Mag out of its holster and handed it to me. The coup de grace ended his movement immediately. I was impressed with the power of this round having never fired any pistol more powerful than a .45 ACP

In my trips to Africa I never saw the need for a handgun. I would be reluctant to use one even in self defense there with the political climate as it is. Until recently I have carried a handgun legally all my waking moments. I have had a concealed carry permit for well over 35 years and my late wife and I both carried and were prepared psychologically to use them if necessary. The only time I have even come close was once late in the evening in downtown Pittsburgh. A group of 10/11 year old black kids started following me as I waited for my wife to get out of a class she was taking. They kept saying 'hey honky gimme a dolla' . I just kept ignoring them. Next thing I know I'm on my knees and when I touch my head it's bloody. They had hit me in the head with a piece of concrete from a construction site nearby. I was carrying a 38 Chief Special which I immediately drew but thank GOD did NOT shoot. They backed away and walked off. Had I shot one I would have undoubtley been drawn and quartered by the public. I have thanked the Lord everyday I did not shoot. I would definitely have been reluctant to use one in Zimbabwe or any other part of Africa. As for animals I felt much more comfortable with a good sheath knife

quote:

Originally posted by WV Hitman:
Oh, you nonbelievers. I've hunted with nothing but a handgun since 1978. Did the Dangerous Seven plus another 40+ plainsgame, 2 brown bear, elk, moose. I can equal any rifle with my handguns.
On the other hand, I respect people that know their limitations!

And I 'm sure your PH was unarmed? Or perhaps he had a large caliber DG rifle along for back-up?


Also, I watched the video posted today of "how you know when a Buffalo will charge" and noticed that Don Heath had a sidearm.

BTW, I will accept your challenge.

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by WV Hitman:
Oh, you nonbelievers. I've hunted with nothing but a handgun since 1978. Did the Dangerous Seven plus another 40+ plainsgame, 2 brown bear, elk, moose. I can equal any rifle with my handguns.
On the other hand, I respect people that know their limitations!

And I 'm sure your PH was unarmed? Or perhaps he had a large caliber DG rifle along for back-up?

That is only a consideration if the longarm is actually used.