We have been seeing many accidents in the last years ,Phs gored mauled or shot .What you think ,its because of an increasing hunting activity ,incresing agresiveness of the game ,or in some cases untrained clients .We know that several Phs were attacked by poachers too ,so please make your opinion , many of you have more experience than the average about Africa .

juan, I don't think more are being injured or, sadly, killed, but we just hear of it sooner via the internet.

I'd like to hear from the PH's on this. My preliminary thought is it's totally based on numbers and the internet and that nothing has really changed. First, I suspect more foreign tourists are hunting in Africa than in years past with the shortening of safaris, there is clearly an uptick in poaching since the Chinese have focused on Africa, so encounters with poachers are bound to rise. And, we all hear about every incident, almost instantaneously, via the internet.

Just my two cents. Like I said, I'd like to hear from those on the front line.

My take on this has no relevance on reality but may offer another point of view.
1. I agree that the internet allows more access to incidents sooner, and to more people.
2. Is it possible that the PH's, due to the frequent outings for Dangerous Game, are becoming used to conducting many hunts with no incidents and aren't as ready as they should be? No offense intended but, sometimes, familiarity breeds contempt.
3. Hunting Dangerous Game might be a new "Bucket list" item and the hunters are not ready for the challenge of hunting something that can, and will hunt you back. Not familiar enough with bigger calibers, not enough practice, maybe recoil sensitivity.....
4. Increased hunting pressure from hunters and poachers alike, giving the animals a more agressive direction to go when they encounter human beings?
I also would be interested in hearing what the PH's have to say.

My gut feeling is nothing has changed. Incidents in the past pre-internet world were more easily hushed up as bad for business. Not so easy anymore.

If this is true it could be caused by many factors such as more hunters going to Africa,trying to get good footage for video,more inexperienced hunters,the video camera makes everyone behave differently,animals may be stressed more than ever today...

quote:

Originally posted by juanpozzi:
,incresing agresiveness of the game,

I would find the reason of increased aggressiveness hard to believe.

I doubt animals are any more or less aggressive now than they have been over thousands of yrs
any time their life was imminently threatened....their instincts i believe, remain relatively basic & constant.

If anything wild animals are by nature, more likely to spook and flee than fight, when under regularly increased threat or hunting pressure.
when wounded and further threatened however, becoming aggressive as required is not abnormal.

These accidents or incidents ought to first be grouped in categories, i.e. injury by gunshot, goring and mauling.

Assuming we already have a census as above, I would say gunshot wounds are primarily due to lack of gun safety on the part of whoever was handling the firearm at the time, irrespective of the situation;

Getting gored, in most cases comes as a result of an initial poor or ineffective first shot and in most cases PH error during the follow-up. In today's day and age we have more young PHs in the field than old PHs - most of whom do NOT have the required experience nor would they be likely to acquire it in the same manner as their predecessors had done.

A mauling from a Leopard or a Lion (more likely from a Leopard) is an injury that can befall most anyone in the PH trade, young or old but in most instances its the young guys that get scratched the most (again, experience and wisdom come into play).

quote:

Originally posted by dyker:
juan, I don't think more are being injured or, sadly, killed, but we just hear of it sooner via the internet.

Exactly.

Many incidents happened before which we never hear about except through non-media sources.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by dyker:
juan, I don't think more are being injured or, sadly, killed, but we just hear of it sooner via the internet.

Exactly.

Many incidents happened before which we never hear about except through non-media sources.

I agree, with a nod to the notion that more hunters in the field these days may account for a bit of an uptick in such incidents.

More poaching = more wounded game = more aggressive game.

I also think that recent client demographics probably reflect the retiring baby boomers in the US. More first time Africa hunters (or even first time hunters) going on the "once in a lifetime" trip. This means...

More novices = more wounded game = more aggressive game.

While I would agree with others that instant communication sees any and every incident reported, I think it is still worth noting that the modern PH probably has far less experience than those of old as they just do not get to shoot anywhere near the numbers of game that those earlier PH's did. Perhaps PH is a misnomer now, and should be PGD 'Professional Guide' (not to get confused with PG - Plains Game).

The early 'Professional White Hunters' were actually hunters in their time not just guides which some took up later in their career. Most of them started their careers hunting for ivory and animals for museums and along the way shot hundreds of head of game for food or skins. Bell, Taylor, Hunter, etc shot buffalo by the hundreds as an incidental from their usual game of elephant for ivory or in Hunter's case rhino just to cull off them off land being developed for farming. Most of these guys also shot lion, leopard, hippo, etc as they came upon them.

Professionals in the middle and latter part of last century such as Selby and his ilk also shot hundreds of head of game more than our breed of 'modern' PHs who are guiding now. Everyone today is so focused on bullets and rifles and whether they will do the job or not, but when you read of Selby saying his 416 Rigby with solids rolled lion pretty well, you get some idea of the measure of the man and his experience and skill.
In contrast you watch a video posted somewhere here on this forum of a buffalo hunt where the PH and his client face a charge with the PH's rifle that wont eject the fire cases and you have food for thought

In the end without statistics from those early years it is impossible to know the answer to the question. Reading some of the older writings it seems quite a few 'hunters' got themselves hurt or killed when they went out unprepared for the game they were hunting.

Game in the case of Tuskless Cow Ele are more temperamental with all the extra interest and "wired up" buffalo are a real problem, far mor a problem than in Bell's time.

Eagle27:

Too many "cow shooter" type clients that have no clue what they are doing.

Without some statistics concerning this issue it is hard to pinpoint reasons for increased PH incidents I would think? The case for todays Professional Hunters not having as much experience dealing with the critters that can create real problems is a valid point. Accidents can and do happen to even the most experienced however. More inexperienced hunters in Africa hunting dangerous game is most likely somewhat a factor.

It's a dangerous profession that requires the PH to "ALWAYS" be on his/her "A Game". Over a long season in the field I am sure there are times when the guard is let down a notch or two, creating the opportunity for something to go wrong.

Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
Sabatti 'trash' Double Shooter
R8 Blaser
DRSS

I think it's a combination of reasons. Not least amongst them are factors such as some inexperienced PHs behaving in an unprofessional manner, the desire of some PHs to become 'celebs' and grandstanding for the cameras etc when they should be concentrating on other things, increased pressure from the supermarket hunting mentality and of course shit just sometimes happens.

I think we also hear more about such incidents because of the internet.

All that said, there are some very fine and very capable young PHs out there still.

Its a numbers game. More hunters , more PH's , more dangerous hunts. Throw in the internet that spreads news faster than wild fire and you have the answer. Its not only novice PH's who get hurt. Some salted and very professional guys get hammered.

I’ve just read the first 16 responses to this question, and every one of them has merit! That being said I will offer a couple more GUESSes as to the over all reasons.

There is no doubt that the internet makes the number of mishaps seem to be far more than in the old days. Someone farts today in China, and we smell it in Kansas instantly because of the internet. In Bells day people were killed or injured every day somewhere in Africa by animals as they are today. However in those days people 20 miles away may never even know about it at all.

I think people saying animals do not get more aggressive and stressed and become more dangerous because of poaching, or pressure are simply mistaken. Poaching is the cause of many wounded buffalo and elephant getting away. A buffalo with a festering wound from a poacher’s small gun that is stumbled on in the bush at close range by a PH and client while hunting Impala with a little 243, or 270 rifle, may be more than the client and the PH both can stop. This happened to a well known hunting guide from Canada a few years back. Killed by a head wound by a cape buffalo while hunting plains game. This one reason for the saying, “when hunting anything in dangerous country, one should use a dangerous game rifle”.

On the other hand the guy who buys a rifle that is far heavier, or has far more recoil than he has experience with is a dangerous combination. He is more likely to wound and cause a dangerous follow-up. This not only puts the client hunter in danger, but does the same for the PH.

The poor gun handling is a problem in many cases, that is true no matter where or what is being hunted. That is not restricted to client hunters. I’ve seen it in some PHs and North American guides as well.

Then there is simply the fact that when one gets tired after a long trek, he naturally looses some of his attention span, and gets into trouble.

.......................................................................

No one yet has supplied any statistics to show the number is any different, either in absolute numbers or in percentages.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
In Bells day people were killed or injured every day somewhere in Africa by animals as they are today.
However in those days people 20 miles away may never even know about it at all.

News of white hunters being killed or injured in colonial Africa during Bells days did travel.
I cannot imagine it not,..Its just that in those days such news was not relayed as fast as it can be done today.
In fact Bell writes of receiving a number of reports of numerous novice white hunters being mauled or killed by lion.

When and where Bell received that informnation would depend on where he was during an ivory quest that could take him
up to 14 months to complete, as he trekked remote regions of coastal and interior Africa.
Although often away from 'civilization' and his main party of porters, he still eventually received such reports.

News that also travelled through the African bush, was that of Bells method of doing business with the natives.
Through this, other natives got to know of him even before he came to their remote village.

Reading his accounts of his other major ventures in life outside of hunting, it becomes evident that he was a man of sober mind,
i.e.; a person not prone to exaggeration.

Spot on.

Animals may be the "same" over thousands of years but people & our society have changed a LOT.

Population has exploded - probably 50 times what it was in Africa during Bell or Hunter's time. Habitat for game has shrunk to about 20% of that period. Animals are having to compete with people a lot more. Even in remote areas, villagers graze cattle & poachers set snares.

In National Parks, the number of vehicles are increasing and inexperienced (sometimes stupid) visitors are more common.

WILD animals are being stressed more often today than ever before. Just see the example of Elephants in Cameroon compared to say Zim.

Buffalo (elephants, hippo) used to raiding village crops are far more aggressive & dangerous that those in remote wilderness.

Add to that the modern mass communication available & we probably have part of the answer.

I agree that more statistics are required.

But anecdotal evidence shows that wildlife human conflict has gone up big time in many countries around the world. Incidents involving PHs could be just a part of that.

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
Game in the case of Tuskless Cow Ele are more temperamental with all the extra interest and "wired up" buffalo are a real problem, far more a problem than in Bell's time.

The really strange thing are the numbers of complacent chaps, both PHs and clients who come short with the "non dangerous" types. Off hand, I know of a springbuck horn under the knee-cap, [hospital, no more hunting for quite awhile,] a Blesbbuck horn into a grown man's thigh, [he hollared some what and loud too] a Steenbuck into a calf muscle, a Bushbuck into and through the left kidney of a beater, another Bushbuck into the calf of a dutiful son who gone to finish off his father's animal and my favourite was the big deal who wanted to examine a still very much alive Southern bush duiker. One kick with a back leg and that little hoof opened him from wrist to elbow like he had used a brand new Arno Bernard blade. End of that hunt. Actually my favourite was a young man who the day before had bought a brand new 7" fixed blade "Kershaw." He still unwrapped the waxed paper from the blade and shaved his arm. Later in the day he further demonstrated its sharpness when attempting to cut the throat of a very lively wounded Bushbuck ram. The ram was later despatched some distance away, the knife was lost in the fracas, never found again and a couple of surgeons spent some several hours re-attaching muscles etc. that had parted company in his left fore-arm.

From the 1950's to the late 70's hunting overseas wasn't for the faint of heart and it wasn't easily afforded. Most who were doing it were long time hunters who were well prepared and not your novice, let's go to Africa and kill stuff types.

Today, access to Africa is simple and cost effective paving the way for novice hunters who want to go to Africa and kill stuff. And it's not just American hunters either. Some of the most frightening hunts I have encountered were European let's go to Africa and kill stuff hunters.

Wow

In regards to the last 15 years or so, I don't believe much has changed other than the Internet making it easier to receive the news.

I lost several good african friends ,and several died of bush illness .Im almost lost my life pursuing at nigth an injured puma in tall grass in a valley ,it was raining and foggy ,i was walking slowly with my 870 loaded with bucksshot -forgive me ganyana-suddenly i heard a shot that passe near my head ,the client saw the eyes of the puma shot and killed it .....but almost kill me .

quote:

Originally posted by juanpozzi:
I lost several good african friends ,and several died of bush illness .Im almost lost my life pursuing at nigth an injured puma in tall grass in a valley ,it was raining and foggy ,i was walking slowly with my 870 loaded with bucksshot -forgive me ganyana-suddenly i heard a shot that passe near my head ,the client saw the eyes of the puma shot and killed it .....but almost kill me .

quote:

Originally posted by Scriptus:
The really strange thing are the numbers of complacent chaps, both PHs and clients who come short with the "non dangerous" types. Off hand, I know of a sprinbuck horn under the knee-cap, [hospital, no more hunting for quite awhile,] a Blesbbuck horn into a grown man's thigh, [he hollared some what and loud too] a Steenbuck into a calf muscle, a Bushbuck into and through the left kidney of a beater, another Bushbuck into the calf of a dutiful son who gone to finish off his father's animal and my favourite was the big deal who wanted to examine a still very much alive Southern bush duiker. One kick with a back leg and that little hoof opened him from wrist to elbow like he had used a brand new Arno Bernard blade. End of that hunt. Actually my favourite was a young man who the day before had bought a brand new 7" fixed blade "Kershaw." He still unwrapped the waxed paper from the blade and shaved his arm. Later in the day he further demonstrated its sharpness when attempting to cut the throat of a very lively wounded Bushbuck ram. The ram was later despatched some distance away, the knife was lost in the fracas, never found again and a couple of surgeons spent some several hours re-attaching muscles etc. that had parted company in his left fore-arm.

RESPECT should be given to everything in the bush
Thanks for sharing!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
In Bells day people were killed or injured every day somewhere in Africa by animals as they are today.
However in those days people 20 miles away may never even know about it at all.

News of white hunters being killed or injured in colonial Africa during Bells days did travel.
I cannot imagine it not,..Its just that in those days such news was not relayed as fast as it can be done today.

TRAX, The WHITE HUNTERS were not the only ones killed then or now by animals in Africa.

Even today there are locals killed every year that do not make the news, or have people even know what happened to them!

I would say there was a bigger percentage of local hunters who were not even known by the so-called white hunters who were killed because of lack of skill, or because of inferior rifles, especially in the very early days of settling of Africa by Europeans! The black population had been being killed by animals for centuries before the whites even set foot on African soil. Many of the locals even today simply never return home, and no one knows why!

There is absolutely no way to form an accurate death rate in the African bush.

.....................................................................

I understand from my father that it was not so much poor rifles that gave him concern but rather the available ammunition. Shooting cats with military .303 ball was hairy and led to frequent follow ups on animals that hardly knew they'd been shot.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
In Bells day people were killed or injured every day somewhere in Africa by animals as they are today.
However in those days people 20 miles away may never even know about it at all.

News of white hunters being killed or injured in colonial Africa during Bells days did travel.
I cannot imagine it not,..Its just that in those days such news was not relayed as fast as it can be done today.

TRAX, The WHITE HUNTERS were not the only ones killed then or now by animals in Africa.

Even today there are locals killed every year that do not make the news, or have people even know what happened to them!

I would say there was a bigger percentage of local hunters who were not even known by the so-called white hunters who were killed because of lack of skill, or because of inferior rifles, especially in the very early days of settling of Africa by Europeans! The black population had been being killed by animals for centuries before the whites even set foot on African soil. Many of the locals even today simply never return home, and no one knows why!

There is absolutely no way to form an accurate death rate in the African bush.

.....................................................................

When I first started going to Africa it seemed almost all PHs came out of Park Services with a great deal of animal control experience. In more recent times it seems more are from local farms and started with plains game and evolved into dangerous game. I was amazed sitting with Mark Butcher, Mark Ellement and Gomez Adams and hearing how many elephant and buffalo they culled for Parks. That experience had to pay off.

Interesting post and I have to agree with PH's experiences.
More you kill, better you get ( accuracy and steadiness in hunting situations ). Plain and simple and that goes for us hunters too.
Statistically, more people in the field, more will get hurt or killed.

There are many folks who are not mentally prepared to be in the bush with critters capable of killing you. Not only do they not have clue, many do not even suspect.

People die white water rafting because they do not understand what they are getting into. People die in the wilderness because they enter unprepared. People die going for a walk in the desert with out water, Darwin at work? People do stupid things because they are not mentally prepared to take on the task.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:


TRAX, The WHITE HUNTERS were not the only ones killed then or now by animals in Africa.

Even today there are locals killed every year that do not make the news, or have people even know what happened to them!

Firstly, I did not say that white hunters were the only ones killed.
I mentioned only the white hunters because they are the orig. subject of this thread,
The boatload of natives in Africa that have been doing their own thing for centuries, and getting injured/killed in the process
are not that relevant.

Natives being killed by animals never much mattered to whites,
why? because far more natives were often killed by other rival natives in attacks and disputes,
than natives killed by any DG...the fallout of such brutal native attacks/conflicts eventually came as no surprise or shock to colonialists,
so whether natives died one way or the other,they were just more dead natives generally not worth much of a mention.

Of course if it were the 100 or so porters carrying a white hunters equipment that got attacked & slaughtered,
the whites would have felt the logistical inconvenience of loosing them while on trek.
The next important thing would not be thinking about the dead natives, but rather finding more natives to replace them
in order to continue the portation of ones mass of goods & equipment.
In the more remote regions of the colonial boundaries, as a white hunter you did what had to do as the situations required
in order to survive, as colonial law and regulations that were enforced in the more populous areas were mostly not enforced in the more remote areas.

I knew a lot more friends in Africa that have been killed in traffic accidents then by DG!

465H&H

Over in Botswana we have news of a PH being killed in the field. South African PH Christo Andre Kaiser, owner of Unico Hunting Safaris, was killed by an elephant on May 11. He was in the field with Spanish clients
PH Erwin Kotze, recently killed by an elephant. ... Kotze was guiding a client while hunting desert elephant in the Kaokoland concession called .It is not often one gets this window on elephant poaching from a ... that a PH had been killed by elephant poachers the previous year in the area ...
Owain Lewis, long-time PH with Chifuti Safaris, was killed in the Chewore
Bob was hunting in Tanzania and was in relatively thick cover when a Cape buffalo charged and killed him. The PH only had time to get off one
a professional hunter was killed yesterday between Naitolia Camp and Treetops, outside Tarangire. Wounded a buffalo then wh ,I believe there are more accidents due more pressure in the game ,more population ,more poaching ,and perhaps more clients without experience with guns.

Marcos ,i believe ,the lack of arms dexterity ,due fewer military service or shooting ranges specially in young hunters is one of the reasons .

quote:

Originally posted by mfischer:
Over in Botswana we have news of a PH being killed in the field. South African PH Christo Andre Kaiser, owner of Unico Hunting Safaris, was killed by an elephant on May 11. He was in the field with Spanish clients
PH Erwin Kotze, recently killed by an elephant. ... Kotze was guiding a client while hunting desert elephant in the Kaokoland concession called .It is not often one gets this window on elephant poaching from a ... that a PH had been killed by elephant poachers the previous year in the area ...
Owain Lewis, long-time PH with Chifuti Safaris, was killed in the Chewore
Bob was hunting in Tanzania and was in relatively thick cover when a Cape buffalo charged and killed him. The PH only had time to get off one
a professional hunter was killed yesterday between Naitolia Camp and Treetops, outside Tarangire. Wounded a buffalo then wh ,I believe there are more accidents due more pressure in the game ,more population ,more poaching ,and perhaps more clients without experience with guns.

Creepy bit of trivia here. Christo Kaiser was killed exactly one year to the day after I killed a jumbo in the same exact GMA in Botswana he was killed in.

Exactly one year, to the day after that, I darted a Rhino on Unico hunting safaris place in RSA. His widow, Tanya was stunned to tears at the coincidence.

Lots of reasons and things come up to create problems as have been posted.

THEN there's the guys that have done "it" so many times the odd's just catch up with 'em.

Old elk killer I spent teen yrs living, working and hunting with while learning. Said he'd shot around 300 elk at the time he had a bad one happen. Late evening in a dark canyon in 1949 before hunter orange days when everyone wore red n black checked shirts n jackets. Was using iron's too. Shot a buckskin horse leading a group of hunters my Dad was with and a few pack animals. Nearly hit the mans leg. Good killing shot but, the wrong animal.

"I've thought this over for years and can only figure I'd shot so many elk that I just 'f-ked up that's all". When I was discussing it with him he'd shot over 500 head. Mostly out of his stack yards in the winter/heavy snows. But, we shot at least one every summer, sometimes two each of the five summers I spent with him, then we hunted elk from his house in season for many yrs.

A person just can't be too careful nor get careless OR somethings gonna bite 'em hard.

Great thread Juan,
George

I believe big bore and girls doesnt mix i saw many game injured by girls than have been scared by big bores rifles nbut lately everybody want to pose wityh a Dg trophy.Just another cause.

quote:

Originally posted by mfischer:
I believe big bore and girls doesnt mix i saw many game injured by girls than have been scared by big bores rifles nbut lately everybody want to pose wityh a Dg trophy.Just another cause.

Plenty of male shooters of all sizes that are scared of or unable to shoot a big bore competently and comfortably and equally plenty of petite women who can......... it isn't about sex or size, it's about ability and no shooter should ever saddle themselves with a calibre they can't handle........ better to shoot a smaller bore well than a bigger bore badly.

The late Kay Hiscocks weighed about the same as wet tea cloth and yet could shoot a .458 Lott extremely well and what's more, could shoot it all day, every day.

I'll add that from my experience, many women are far better shots than men are........ My own better half once shot no less than 6 impala (for baits) for me in one afternoon and all were shot precisely under the chin and none closer than 260 metres.