With much attention focused on Stu does anybody have a reliable update on Antony?

What I have heard since the accident has been very positive.

I was told by a zim ph that the client who shot anthony paid his 2012 and 2013 salary. Thats the information I was given.

quote:

Originally posted by ndorobo1:
I was told by a zim ph that the client who shot anthony paid his 2012 and 2013 salary. Thats the information I was given.

I wonder how much a PH makes in a year, a good year, one that hasn't succumbed to the effects of recession, where the PH is assured of multiple hunts - similar to a farmer reaping a "bumper" crop.

Most of us know that a PH is paid by the "working day", not on a monthly salary and each safari destination has different rates for its PHs.
We also know that the PHs who gets to work 300 days are few and far between.

Anthony Howland may have been compensated for 2 year's loss of work but he is still minus his right arm and even if he does get back into the field by the grace of God, I doubt many clients will accept being guided by him.

There is a possibility he might do well on bird hunting, fishing or photographic safaris - if that is any consolation.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Originally posted by ndorobo1:
I was told by a zim ph that the client who shot anthony paid his 2012 and 2013 salary. Thats the information I was given.

I wonder how much a PH makes in a year, a good year, one that hasn't succumbed to the effects of recession, where the PH is assured of multiple hunts - similar to a farmer reaping a "bumper" crop.

You should know ...Stu made 75K/year according to Martin P.

Anton,

I also said different destinations have different rates, so he could be making more or LESS

everyone knows tanz ph´s makes more just look at the daily rate

Absolutely right!

Proportionate values - one of the reasons why we are inundated by "foreign" PHs

Nothing wrong with a 1 arm PH.

We work with many people that have some sort of disability.

So you can see and others you can not.

I would have no issue using for a PH on my next hunt.

Give a bloke a go.

As I understand Antony was fitted with a state of the art prosthetic arm and has already conducted a hunt late season. Again I was hoping somebody had first hand information on Antony.

I was not hoping it would turn in to a pissing contest about what some other PH makes. And by the way a good experienced hunter with a full season in Moz and some early days in Zim with good tipping clients can make what Martin posted.

Hunting in Zim only and just starting out will be much less.

quote:

Originally posted by cameronaussie:
Nothing wrong with a 1 arm PH.

We work with many people that have some sort of disability.

So you can see and others you can not.

I would have no issue using for a PH on my next hunt.

Give a bloke a go.

CA:

There are professions with acceptable disabilities and his profession with his recently acquired disability is not exactly in his favor and hence the reason why alternative suggestions were made that fell in line with his passion for nature.

Some posters have already voiced concern to hunting with an "impaired" guide - fully understandable, but quite sad that this man, so early in his career has had his dreams blown to hell!

Fujo,
Please correct me if I am misreading your posts in this thread and the others, but in a accident such as Stu's or Anthony's it seems that you beleive the client should be reponsible for the wounded PH's salary until he can recover and return to work or if unable to, indefefinetley.

quote:

Originally posted by adamhunter:
Fujo,
Please correct me if I am misreading your posts in this thread and the others, but in a accident such as Stu's or Anthony's it seems that you beleive the client should be reponsible for the wounded PH's salary until he can recover and return to work or if unable to, indefefinetley.

I don't recall having said that.

quote:

Originally posted by adamhunter:
Fujo,
Please correct me if I am misreading your posts in this thread and the others, but in a accident such as Stu's or Anthony's it seems that you beleive the client should be reponsible for the wounded PH's salary until he can recover and return to work or if unable to, indefefinetley.

Adamhunter:

My question to you:

Do you believe it right to simply blame such an incident on "fate" or "shit happens", "he chose a dangerous profession", "should have had life insurance", etc. etc.

Fujo,
I am not sure as to what I believe or what the right course of action is in a situation like this. Only trying to figure out what I would do if I were in the situation. You seem to be the only PH that is commenting with on these matters and reading between the lines in some of your comments is why I asked the initial question about what financial obligation you feel the client has. Since you are on the PH side of the equation and most of the posters are on the client side I wanted to hear from you what a PH feels the client should do. If I misread in my between the lines reading, please feel free to correct me. I really would like to hear your opinion on such.
I am in the commercial construction business which is a dangerous profession. People fall off scaffold, get run over by heavy equipment, or electrocuted a lot more often than the industry safety engineers like to admit. Accidents yes, preventable? Absolutely!! Again construction, like PHing, is a dangerous business and there are risks and while we take every effort to mitigate those risks, accidents still occur and no matter how much training and prep we do, we will be unable to stop them all unfortunately.
As for my thoughts on what I would do, I would certainly feel compelled to do something and while I make a decent living, I can’t afford to pay $75K/year disability to someone. I also believe that PH’s and/or the company they work for should have insurance for such matters. Construction companies do and it does cost a lot but is something necessary to do business.

I am not saying the client should shoulder all the burden but nor am I saying that “shit happens, hope he has insurance”. I honestly don’t know what the right answer is.

Adamhunter,

How sure can one be that the other party is fully insured or has included his employees with full benefits in the event of tragedy?

To safeguard oneself from an 'unhappy ending'
it might be wise looking at a global insurance policy that covers all risks might be the solution and seeing you are in a line of business that tends to produce more casualties than you would want, already have an introduction to the inner workings of insurance policies.

I haven't the foggiest on the costs involved nor do I have any idea on the intricacies of these contracts but in the long run may be of mutual benefit to all parties concerned.

P.S. My comments, other than how sad it was for such a young fellow to have his dreams destroyed were made against comments by two other PHs none of which were accusations or of derogatory intent.

Fujo,
I work for one of the largest construction companies in the world so the liability insurance we are required to carry and what we require our subcontractors to carry is very detailed and covers pretty much anything lawyers can dream up. As for verifying what is covered by those that work for us, before any subcontractor is allowed to go to work they must submit their certificate of insurance detailing what their policy covers. If it doesn’t meet out standards, they can’t work for us. We have attorneys and contract compliance personnel that do nothing but monitor insurance status of the companies that are under contract with us. In general it costs us about 1% of the contract value. So if a project was valued at $10,000,000 US the aggregate insurance would cost about $100,000. Subcontractor rates are a little higher at about 1.5%. We have had to have special policies written for jobs though, one I recall was we had to insure a huge sculpture valued at $5M.

Unfortunately I can’t tell you what is in the fine print of the standard policy requirements as I let attorneys and compliance staffs do that as they are the experts.

I do think that if one chooses to be a dangerous profession such as PHing or construction, he would be nuts not to have some form of insurance that cover situations like this be it Workman’s Comp or Accidental Death & Dismemberment.

You can rest assured the next time I am talking to an outfitter about a hunt, I will ask him what kind of insurance he has and confirm my own policy coverage as well.

quote:

Originally posted by adamhunter:

You can rest assured the next time I am talking to an outfitter about a hunt, I will ask him what kind of insurance he has and confirm my own policy coverage as well.

I spoke with Anthony on August 30, and do not have an update. What I can say is that he was scheduled for the prosthesis in SA in the end of September or October. His insurance did cover a lot of this cost but Anthony told me that he was compensated for his wage and that he held no ill will against anyone even if he did not receive anything. He stated that the hunter had "stepped up" and that is good enough for me.

He is a very intelligent and resourceful person and possessed immeasurable character and was moving forward with his life. He used YouTube tutorials to learn to tie his shoes and other mundane daily matters that those of us with use of both arms take for granted. I would hunt with him in a heart beat.

He was looking at using a double in a 40 cal. or a left handed Blaser. I really enjoyed my time with him.

Dutch

quote:

Originally posted by adamhunter:
You can rest assured the next time I am talking to an outfitter about a hunt, I will ask him what kind of insurance he has and confirm my own policy coverage as well.

And if the outfitter can not produce proof of a policy that covers accidental shooting what then?

And if the outfitter can not produce proof of a policy that covers accidental shooting what then?[/QUOTE]

Might look for someone else to hunt with. Might not. As said in another thread, it can go both ways, what if a PH shot me?

Not trying to say that there is no moral obligation by the client to do the right thing, not by any stretch. Just trying to figure out what the right thing is.

quote:

Originally posted by adamhunter:
...I am in the commercial construction business which is a dangerous profession. People fall off scaffold, get run over by heavy equipment, or electrocuted a lot more often than the industry safety engineers like to admit....

that's kind of apples and oranges. if the PH is bit by a snake when reaching under a rock, the jeep crashes, the PH's gun explodes, that is hardly the client's fault, and I doubt the client would feel responsible. I don't think I would. those things are accidents that "happen."

OTOH, on a jobsite, if the client runs you over in his car, by accident, then the lawsuits will fly and fairly so. and here in the US, there will be automotive insurance, or there should be. the negligent driver client is at fault. I would feel responsible, as I think most people would.

Fujotupu, is there a PH professional association that could arrange insurance?

Delloro:

quote:

Fujotupu, is there a PH professional association that could arrange insurance?

To be quite honest I doubt any PHA would accept getting involved with issues of personal liability regarding PHs, other than possibly direct the interested party to an Insurance Company worthy of their consideration.
Worth taking note that these Associations are basically licensing bodies where PHs are obliged to register (in some countries).

I would also imagine that insurance coverages are drawn out in a pretty much standard form and diverting from these plans would be regarded as "tailoring" the policy and the costs would alter dramatically.

You will easily find all sorts of coverages being offered for AD & D which are very affordable, in fact too good to be true. However, these have probably been set up for the guy in the street and families that limit their adventures to a walk in the park on a Sunday afternoon, whose chances of taking a stray bullet are as good as winning the Powerball Lottery!
Try informing the agent of the working conditions; where firearms are being handled on a daily basis and policy costs will change. If you don't tell them and register and the proverbial 'shit hits the fan' comes into the equation, rest assured that a loophole to nullify the policy will be found.

As one poster has already confirmed, he added the accidental shooting clause to his current insurance policy by paying a minor additional charge but am not sure what the overall cost of that policy was and I guess it must vary between one agent and the other.

The only way to acquire 100% information would be to talk to established institutions and not the brokers who are out to make a sale (and a commission).

As an aside, all Namibian hunting guides or PH's must have appropriate liability insurance, payable every year, which must be attached to your appliaction to be registered for that particular year.

Most PH's I know does have disability insurance, but that is very expensive for a decent amount, so most also skimp on this, and may be insured too low.

quote:

Originally posted by Karl S:
As an aside, all Namibian hunting guides or PH's must have appropriate liability insurance, payable every year, which must be attached to your appliaction to be registered for that particular year.

Most PH's I know does have disability insurance, but that is very expensive for a decent amount, so most also skimp on this, and may be insured too low.

They are therefore only complying with the requirements by the association in order to be eligible for a license by obtaining a basic cover.
We are back to square one: the cost for a proper coverage is beyond the means of a working PH.

quote:

Originally posted by adamhunter:
Fujo,
I work for one of the largest construction companies in the world so the liability insurance we are required to carry and what we require our subcontractors to carry is very detailed and covers pretty much anything lawyers can dream up. As for verifying what is covered by those that work for us, before any subcontractor is allowed to go to work they must submit their certificate of insurance detailing what their policy covers. If it doesn’t meet out standards, they can’t work for us. We have attorneys and contract compliance personnel that do nothing but monitor insurance status of the companies that are under contract with us. In general it costs us about 1% of the contract value. So if a project was valued at $10,000,000 US the aggregate insurance would cost about $100,000. Subcontractor rates are a little higher at about 1.5%. We have had to have special policies written for jobs though, one I recall was we had to insure a huge sculpture valued at $5M.

Unfortunately I can’t tell you what is in the fine print of the standard policy requirements as I let attorneys and compliance staffs do that as they are the experts.

I do think that if one chooses to be a dangerous profession such as PHing or construction, he would be nuts not to have some form of insurance that cover situations like this be it Workman’s Comp or Accidental Death & Dismemberment.

You can rest assured the next time I am talking to an outfitter about a hunt, I will ask him what kind of insurance he has and confirm my own policy coverage as well.

You guys all seem to be wanting to drive the price of safari hunting even higher....

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
We are back to square one: the cost for a proper coverage is beyond the means of a working PH.

Professional associations are a viable way to pool buyers and negotiate insurance. Real, appropriate insurance. But some PH out there probably already knows that, and has already investigated it at some point.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Originally posted by ndorobo1:
I was told by a zim ph that the client who shot anthony paid his 2012 and 2013 salary. Thats the information I was given.

I wonder how much a PH makes in a year, a good year, one that hasn't succumbed to the effects of recession, where the PH is assured of multiple hunts - similar to a farmer reaping a "bumper" crop.

Most of us know that a PH is paid by the "working day", not on a monthly salary and each safari destination has different rates for its PHs.
We also know that the PHs who gets to work 300 days are few and far between.

Anthony Howland may have been compensated for 2 year's loss of work but he is still minus his right arm and even if he does get back into the field by the grace of God, I doubt many clients will accept being guided by him.

There is a possibility he might do well on bird hunting, fishing or photographic safaris - if that is any consolation.

I met Anthony in 2011. He was working for my outfitter/PH then. I have seldom met someone with such love for his profession. I would definitely hunt with him as PH. This year I was told he was getting an artificial arm and would be back hunting in 2013. Good for him.

quote:

Originally posted by Dutch44:
I spoke with Anthony on August 30, and do not have an update. What I can say is that he was scheduled for the prosthesis in SA in the end of September or October. His insurance did cover a lot of this cost but Anthony told me that he was compensated for his wage and that he held no ill will against anyone even if he did not receive anything. He stated that the hunter had "stepped up" and that is good enough for me.

He is a very intelligent and resourceful person and possessed immeasurable character and was moving forward with his life. He used YouTube tutorials to learn to tie his shoes and other mundane daily matters that those of us with use of both arms take for granted. I would hunt with him in a heart beat.

He was looking at using a double in a 40 cal. or a left handed Blaser. I really enjoyed my time with him.

Dutch

Dutch,

Thanks for the post. I saw a recent picture of Antony on Facebook with the prosthetic arm practicing shooting with what appears to be a pellet rifle.

I had hoped to meet Anthony on a recent hunt to Zim and while in Harare did my best to get up with him but had no luck. I think i saw almost every other PH I know from that area or at least talked to them while there. I was at the airport on my way out and ran into Gavin Rourke and had a good talk. I know he and Ant are doing things together and we gave Ant a call and I talked to him a bit. He is of course in great spirits, has actually done some hunts and has some sort of appratus that he can shoot with. Not sure what and did not see it but I hear he is pretty good at it. I also learned that he is most likely to get fitted for a real mechanical arm in the US which should make him more functional. I understand the guy that injured him is a real standup guy and is supporting all of this. Proof that there is some real honor in the world. I had also committed to Ant a while back when I was on the board of Something More Safaris some finanical help which due to the direction change in SMS I have not been able to deliver on. I told him what we are doing to get reorganized and re-committed the funds previously promised to him. All in all a great talk and he seems like a great young man we all should admire. I think he is planning on coming to the shows so many will get a chance to meet him. I do have his email if anyone wants to PM me and contact him directly.


Larru

Larry,

That is incredible. I'm sure a man without Ant's attitude would have not done as well.

Fantastic!

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
Adamhunter,

How sure can one be that the other party is fully insured or has included his employees with full benefits in the event of tragedy?

To safeguard oneself from an 'unhappy ending'
it might be wise looking at a global insurance policy that covers all risks might be the solution and seeing you are in a line of business that tends to produce more casualties than you would want, already have an introduction to the inner workings of insurance policies.

I haven't the foggiest on the costs involved nor do I have any idea on the intricacies of these contracts but in the long run may be of mutual benefit to all parties concerned.

P.S. My comments, other than how sad it was for such a young fellow to have his dreams destroyed were made against comments by two other PHs none of which were accusations or of derogatory intent.

I work on horses daily. My profession is littered with old diasbled horse vets.

If a horse kicks me and disables me for life...do you think that horse owner is gonna pay my salary for even one year??? If you do...I hope you own horses.