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Any reports on 180 grain Winchester xp3 in 300Mag used on plains game? | ||
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Last year, about this time, American Hunter profiled the bullet. I can't remember the exact issue. I'm a big winchester fan for factory loads. But, this one seems to be designed to do too much. When you serve all people you serve none well. The review, as I recall, was mixed, and covered a number of plains game species. The mix came in folks thinking maybe too much penetration, not enough expansion. I have used the bullet last year for deer and elk and it did its job fine. The critters died well. But, I still have a few nagging doubts about the expansion. I had none with their old fail-safe loads. I may be an old school fellow but I want that beautiful four-leafed clover when the bullet is recovered. Dan Donarski Hunter's Horn Adventures Sault Ste. Marie, MI 49783 906-632-1947 www.huntershornadventures.com | |||
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That is interesting as I was on safari in 2003 with a 308 and 165 gr TBBC and a 270 WSM with 140gr Fail Safes and the PH ask me to leave the 270 in my room. Seems they have had too many fail safes pencil through plains game. One of the PHs from this safari outfit was giving a speech this year to a group of hunter and he said please do not bring Fail Safes. I thought Winchester made the XP3 to lower cost and improve expansion on lighter game and to increase the BC of the bullets over the Fail Safes. | |||
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The XP3 is supposed to be an improvement over the Fail Safe and every article that I have read on it so states. I have not tried it as of yet. But, I have taken nearly 40 head of Plains Game with the Fail Safe in 3 different Safaris in both the .270 and the .300 WSM without losing an animal. Most dropped dead in their tracks. | |||
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Most PH's hate Fail Safes, due to their renowned lack of expansion. On paper the XP3, looks to to be better, but I saw a test on PG, with photos, of recovered projectiles, most of the petals had blown off, virtually wadcutters.................. Verbera!, Iugula!, Iugula!!! Blair. | |||
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I have alway had trouble with "penciled through" theory and that's becuase it seems the pencilled through theory most of the time deals with a lost animal so nobody really knows where the animal was hit...cause they never found the animal...but they always seemed to be certain that it was good hit...  Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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True, the original fail safe was reported to have a few issues. Yet, in trips in 05 and a couple more in 06 I used the newer fail safes and used them on plains game. All animals, except for a pesky zebra, who didn't know any better, died in their tracks. The zebra was seriously dead, just didn't know it. But, as the question was about the new XP3, I'll get to that. I can't talk about the petals falling off as I wonder if this thing actually petals. I'm looking at a box now, and while the phto of an expanded bullet is there, the petaling looks, well, not like a petal. Rather, it appears squished down, like a mahher hit it from the top. Sure, there are come "petals" but it looks much more like the old mushroom of soft points. Dan Donarski Hunter's Horn Adventures Sault Ste. Marie, MI 49783 906-632-1947 www.huntershornadventures.com | |||
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As nkonka mentioned, there was an excellent article in American Hunter last year about Winchesters new XP3 bullet. However, I was baffed by the number of multiple shots the author required to take many of his PG. I believe he took a total of 24 PG. Some required as many as seven shots. I have to question his marksmanship, but since I was not there, I won't. Last year one of my friends used 160 grain Fail Safe's in his 7 mag. He took 12 animals: from Springbok to a 30" Waterbuck. The Fail Safe bullet performed very well, and there was no problem with expansion. I haven't tried the XP3 as of yet, but quite honestly, since trying the Nosler Accubond (160gr in .280) I have been too impressed to change. Expansion is excellent with lead remaining bonded to the jacket petals. What few I was able to recover, I couldn't ask for better performance. The XP3 appears to be a good bullet. Time will tell. Good hunting, LDK Gray Ghost Hunting Safaris http://grayghostsafaris.com Phone: 615-860-4333 Email: hunts@grayghostsafaris.com NRA Benefactor DSC Professional Member SCI Member RMEF Life Member NWTF Guardian Life Sponsor NAHC Life Member Rowland Ward - SCI Scorer Took the wife the Eastern Cape for her first hunt: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6881000262 Hunting in the Stormberg, Winterberg and Hankey Mountains of the Eastern Cape 2018 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4801073142 Hunting the Eastern Cape, RSA May 22nd - June 15th 2007 http://forums.accuratereloadin...=810104007#810104007 16 Days in Zimbabwe: Leopard, plains game, fowl and more: http://forums.accuratereloadin...=212108409#212108409 Natal: Rhino, Croc, Nyala, Bushbuck and more http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6341092311 Recent hunt in the Eastern Cape, August 2010: Pics added http://forums.accuratereloadin...261039941#9261039941 10 days in the Stormberg Mountains http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7781081322 Back in the Stormberg Mountains with friends: May-June 2017 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6001078232 "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading" - Thomas Jefferson Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running...... "If you're being chased by a Lion, you don't have to be faster than the Lion, you just have to be faster than the person next to you." | |||
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There verdict is still not out on the XP3. You are correct that the story in American Hunter had many animals that required multiple shots with the new XP3. It annoys me that Winchester took what was considered a premium bullet (Fail Safe) that a lot of people enjoyed hunting with and dumbed it down and made it cheaper to make the XP3. I used the Fail Safe on 2 PG Hunts and all were one shot kills with excellent penetration. I can't even find Fail Safe's in .300 wsm anymore and I will not use the XP3. Switching over to the Barnes TSX for a PG hunt this summer. The danger of civilization, of course, is that you will piss away your life on nonsense | |||
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My take when it came out... Wow what a joke, what a slap in the face to all failsafe users that know what the steel support cup in the rear is for... Winchester even knew what the steel cup was for because when the early failsafes didnt have them, they were deemed failures when they expanded in a manner just like the new XP3. So winchester engineered the steel cup in the rear. Do they really think the public is that dumb? Two stage expansion? So your bullet can expand in the front and rivit in the rear... all the while the rear expansion is being masked by the front OR vice versa. "Here is your bullet folks... may be as flat as a quarter but boy did does it give them a double whammy". Ohh the 5 percenters will buy them and those who stand for everything and thus stand for nothing will to. This a response not so much in how they perform but rather Winchesters approach to the public. I am back from a long Hiatus... or whatever. Take care. smallfry | |||
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I used failsafes on elk in 2000 (30-06:double lung that dropped in its tracks) plainsgame in 2002 (.270: five animals from springbok to kudu that all dropped in their tracks, except for the kudu which required a short follow-up) and four caribou in 2004 (.300WSM: all dropped in their tracks with one shot.) Only one animal, the fourth caribou, was spined-- the rest just acted that way. I loved failsafes and wish they were more availible. Since they aren't, I'm using TSX factory loads now. | |||
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I NEVER had an issue when hunting Hogs, Red Stag, Fallow deer, Kudu, Waterbuck, Black Wildebeest, Blue, etc, etc using either the Fail Safe or the Barnes X. ( always handloads in a .300WinMag ) I really do not understand this "pencil" problem. All of the animals went down for once and forever, witl almost boring performance. The distances varied from close (100y) to medium (500y). I just love the performance of monolithic bullets.  ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ColdBore 1.0 - the ballistics/reloading software solution http://www.patagoniaballistics.com | |||
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LDK, Nice to hear that about the Accubond, 160.  I tried them in a custom 7mmRUM and from the bench they shot wonderfully. Have not tried them on game with this rifle.Cheers, Verbera!, Iugula!, Iugula!!! Blair. | |||
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I have had pencil through with Barnes X on about 3 ocassions, fortunatly the shots were well placed and everything was recovered. One coyote ran about a mile or so and was found accidently two days later. In two of those cases I am convinced the hollow point pinched shut on shoulder bone as the bullet penetration was not straight through. Perhaps the coyote was too light bodied to open the bullet, a 165 gr. 300 H&H. I had anothe failure with a triple shock on a going away shot on a mule deer, found a lot of blood and bone at the initial scene, but lost the deer from lack of a blood trail in the Shiny brush. I think the shot was good at 100 yards with a rest, and into the last rib towards the off shoulder, Unfortunatly I will never know in this case. As I recall it was one of two or three animals that I have actually lost in a lifetime of hunting. All of this has made be suspect on monolithic bullets, however GS Customs bullets have never failed me and they are monolithic. The Barnes x bullets I have seen used on th big stuff like Buffalo and Lion have all performed excellently. I have many good friends that swear by Barnes bullets and I know them to be very good hunters and gun experts. I have just been snakebit with them, at least on the mid size big game. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I was on that writer hunt with Winchester you saw in the American Hunter. I've personally taken over 70 head of game with the XP3, from impala, warthog, and whitetail, to eland, gemsbok, zebra, and elk. In my opinion, the XP3 is a much better bullet than the Fail Safe. It gives much better expansion, yet holds together about as well as the Fail Safe. Those few deformed bullets referred to in an earlier post were the few that were recovered. Each and every one went through a lot of bone and yielded many inches of penetration before stopping. Most of the animals dropped within a few feet of where they were shot. As to the multiple shots, we got a few letters about that, but many were simply the result of experienced African hands blasting away as long as th animal was in view. I made an excellent shot on an eland, but it stood rocking on its feet, so I shot it three more times before it fell. All 4 shots would have been fatal on their own, but we were there to test bullets, after all. Had we shot them all once, we would have been criticized for drawing conclusions on not enough data. | |||
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