The .458 Winnie can be loaded with the 450gr TSX by crimping on the third cannelure, for COL 3.550".



The 500grain TSX crimped on the fourth cannelure gives a COL of 3.680".



Both of these loads will have about 0.470" of bullet seated into the case.



If you have a magazine box long enough, the .458 Win Mag will outdo a .458 Lott with a 3.600" (.375 H&H length) box.



I think the standard .458 Win Mag chamber has a really sloppy throat with about 0.750" of freebore (Deep Throated lasses, they are, eh? Just to continue the joke.).



A .458 Lott reamer with 0.460" freebore (standard) will just barely clean up the Win Mag freebore.



Sumbuddy who know, please correct me if I am wrong.

I think this might be better here than in the reloading area. Has there been much work on using the 480 gr. Woodleigh bullets, originally used in the 450 3 1/4", in the 458 WinMag. With 20 grains of bullet less than the factory loading, could the Winchester Magnum reach the same safe velocity as the 450 3 1/4" N.E. and at lower pressures than the factory 500 gr. offering.

Don't know. But I do know a PH in SA who loads his 458 WinMag to 458 Lott velocities by seating the bullet furthur out and glueing it in place with loctite. This, he says, will work if you've got a magnum length action. If you want his e-mail I can send it to you.

Sounds like he needs a Lee Factory Crimp Die...

I use it on alot of my rifle rounds including my .458 Win and find it to give a very positive crimp.

The 480gr Woodleigh is a great idea and yes, if you've got a long throat (alot of .458's apparently do?) then take advantage of that if you have a long enough box magazine.

In my Ruger No 1 I seat my bullets out and it works well. With Reloader 7 I'm at 2075 fps with a 500gr Hornady RN at standard seating depth and can still hear the powder rattling in the case. Haven't had time to work with the loading for over a month now, but it appears 2100+ will be easily accomplished. I'll let you know what I come up with when I get the load work-up finished.

Wink,
Finn Aagaard did this and wrote it up in the NRA rag long ago.

Finn would seat the bullet out and load it with IMR4320 into the 2200's fps easily.

I have done this with a CZ 550 American Magnum in .458 Winchester.

Using the .458/500gr Barnes TSX (has 5 cannelures) you can crimp on the 4th cannelure from the nose and still have about 0.5" of bullet in the case. No Super Glue please!!!

You can easily load 600 grain Barnes originals to Lott length this way too, but no cannelures.

In fact, a CZ 550 in .458 Lott can be loaded out to .458 Express 3" case length.

The Lott freebore is about 0.460", IIRC, and the standard .458 Win Mag throat has more freebore than that, though I don't recall exactly what it is.

The CZ box is about 3.80" inside, and seating the bullets out might improve accuracy in some rifles. Seating over 100% or greater load densities will help hold the crimp under recoil too.

Wow! That .458 Win Mag is the best thing since sliced bread, if you got a long box!

I think that with the Woodleigh softs and solids in 480 gr. that you can out seat the bullet as it is shorter and therefore have a less compressed load. It was the highly compression of powder that lead to the irratic performance in the original factory loads. I also think that you can get enough more powder in the case to get the 2125-2150 f/s that the original 450 3 1/4" round developed and with a little less pressure than the original 458 WM>

I have found it pretty easy to get 2,150+ fps with 500 grain Hornady (softs & solids) and 500 grain Swift A-Frames in the 458 WM. I use Accurate 2230. All of the bullets have shot well in my rifle.

Now, I do have to admit that my rifle has a 25" barrel (standard length on the Pre-64 M70 "African" 458WM). This may be part of the reason that I don't have much trouble getting to the magical "2,150 fps" number.

Also, I have found the 450 Barnes X to shoot well and easily acheive 2,250 fps.

Any of the above loads will ensure that the buffalo you are hunting has a very bad day.

Tim

In 1984 I lost my big bore virginity to a Ruger No.1 in .458 Win Mag. Soon I was cruising the gun shops looking to pick up more .458 Win Mags for kicks.



A rapid succession of affairs followed with a Remington M700 Safari, and an Interarms Whitworth Mark X.



In fact I dumped the Ruger No. 1 and the Remington 700, dependable lasses though they were, and I took up with a second Whitworth.



I carried on for a time with two Mark X .458 Winnies. It was fun.



All of these four would deliver 2100 to 2150 fps with 71.0 grains of IMR 3031, a WW case, and an F215 primer, and Hornady and Swift bullets of 500 grains weight.

All had 24" barrels.



I dallied with a couple of .460 Weatherby's but the Mark V with integral brake was irritatingly loud and a bit of a priss, not my style, looked too much like a whore. A BBK-02 .460 Wby was also just not my type, just no chemistry, but had cosmetic surgery and is now a .470 Mbogo floozie that is good for a roll in the hay now and then.



The two Yugoslavian .458 Winnies are still with me, though one had a sex change operation and hormonal therapy and is now a .458 Lott with a deeper voice.



The remaining Yugoslav girl said it was O.K. to invite some Czech chicks into the safe, so two of those CZ .458 Winnies have partied with us off and on for several years now. One of the CZ's decided to become a .458 Lott also, and the other, with some extra steroid use became a .45 Lapua. Man does she have a nice mustache now, and is going bald!



I missed the Czech chicks after that and had to find an Americanized CZ .458 Winnie to keep the last of the Yugo .458 Winnies company when I am otherwise preoccupied, such as with the Mauser .450 Dakota.



The latest Czech .458 Winnie is wanting to become a .450 Dakota now, but I have been able to tickle her fancy with those Lott length .458 Winnie loads. She has been quite flexible and gets over 2250 fps in her 25" barrel with RL-15 and 500 grainers loaded out to 3.79" long.



Her box is pretty tight when I get 5 of those stuffed into it.



Cheers!

I had the same idea and plan, but after I got the measurements for the placement of the crimp groove and overall length I discarded the idea as I didn't see anything to gain. If you cut a new groove then that changes the situation.

As a result, I sent with the 450 grain Swift and stayed with the 500 grains solid.

AfricanHunterFortner,

The .458/450gr Barnes TSX has 4 (four) cannelures on it. You can hot up the .458 Winnie with those by loading longer. That bullet has a big hole in the nose and ought to perform well on big game.



JCN,

Speaking of holes, I don't want to name any names. I forgot to mention the pushfeed M70 .458 and the stainless Ruger No. 1. What a sordid past!

Ray,

The metaphor here is sassy lassies, not dirty diapers, but I guess it Depends in your case.



lb404,

I don't think there is enough difference between the 480 and 500 grain bullets to get you away from compressed loads. You might end up with 105% density loads instead of 110% to get 2150 fps.



Good point about the Lee Factory Crimp die, but I would want to use that and have a cannelure too.



Now you have designed the ultimate .458 Win Mag, a "Switch-Action" Pre-64 M70, though it would actually be a switch-action-and-stock rifle, same barrel.



You could surely (shore-nuff) get Lott velocities with that.



For the unadventurous, the way to go is the Lott, but make it 2.850" chambered (Watts) instead of the 2.800" (Lott) but still stamp it "Lott."



In the 3.800" magazine box, the Lott/Watts is even more versatile than the .458 Win Mag.



There is really no reason to mess with a .458 Express 3". That one really is a spoiled child with dirty diapers.

LB 404,
If I wanted to use a 458 Win. then I would simply drive the 500 gr. bullet at 2000 FPS, for some reason many think that load will bounce off a mean old buffalo, but I assure they know not of what they speak..These big old boys don't make a lot of tracks when you stick a high SD 45 cal, 500 gr. bullet or two at 2000 FPS in their boiler room....That is the way to use a 458 Win. and you will never have anything but praise for it....Ain't no Panzer tanks left in Africa, so the 458 will work there.

The biggest problem with the 458 is people, so many folks try to make it into something it is not, never will be, doesn't need to be...and that is where the bad reputation came from, along with some early bad ammo...I constantly hear bragadocious expounding statements about how they get 2250 with a 500 gr. bullet, knowing the powder has now become a solid unignitable brick in the Southern heat, its been happening for 50 years....

I am not a fan of the 458, but if I had one loaded as stated I would feel more than confident with it to hunt all of beasts of this planet, with a belt full of softs and solids...

In a straight factory .458 Win Mag with 1-14" twist barrel and 3.340" COL magazine box limitation, The best killer would be the 450 grain bullet no doubt.

I would prefer the North Fork 450 grain SP-soft and FP-solid.

I have killed moose with the .458 Winnie, and it was dramatic.

I have killed 4 "buffalo" (cape, water, bison) with .416, .423, and .458 bullets.

I would fear no evil with a .458 Win Mag loaded to 2222 fps with the 450 grain North Fork (this would match the easily attained momentum of a 500 grainer at 2000fps). I hope to try some of the North Fork Cup Point solids that Ray has had such good results with, and I presume that it is a 450 grainer too.

Thanks Ray, see you in Dallas.

I'm thinking of getting a 458 win mag in the future but now with the only powder I can get hold of here in RSA which is somchem I suppose I won't be able to get the smae velocities.

But what about a 400 gr bullet in the 458 win mag running at around 2300 fps ? Would this be enough of a killer as well ? With no problems compacting powder ! Rhino as got an excellent 400 grainer solid and soft (Soft solid shank ) that has been used and tested properly.

I am having fun playing with my new chronograph. Figured I would chrono loads for the .458Win and .460Wea. The .458 loads consisted of a 500gr Hornady over 71gr of 3031, lightly compacted. Out of a mid 90's Winchester Safari Express, I got 2039fps for a five shot string with a 5fps spread. Talking about consistancy! This equates to 4617 ftlbs of energy. Like a modern .404 load. Would this be adequate for buff?
The .460 loads were a 500gr Hornady over 110gr of 4350, a very low loading density. Out of a Brno 602 custom, I got a five shot average of 2355fps. My calculations give this load 6055 ftlbs of energy. I've only done plains game, but I figure this would do nicely for the big stuff