Gents:
I went to Anchorage today for a new 4457. The officer there told me many hunters are bringing in their firearms for the new 4457 to satisfy the South African requirements. So, I brought in a rifle that I will take to Zim this summer and mentioned I would be bringing several more to cover future hunts.

The officer told me I DID NOT have to bring in my firearms if I had a prior 4457. All I needed to do was to make out a new 4457 and transfer the serial number and other info on the old form and they would sign and stamp it.

This will save me lots of work as I live 110 miles from the customs office.

I hope this helps you gentlemen.
Cal

Thanks Cal. If that is true in CO as well, it will save me hauling a lot of hardware.

Yes, but it still requires a visit to Customs.

Customs did the same thing for me at the Philadelphia office.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana1:
Yes, but it still requires a visit to Customs.

Yes, I understand, but thank you Bwana 1 for pointing that out. Still, a handful of paper is a small chore compared to hauling all of those rifles. I don't have enough gun cases to cover all of the 4457s that I have filled out over the years.

So, again, thank you all for pointing this out to me before my trip to Customs to get ready for my 2018 trip to Zambia.

Of course, in 2019 this needs to be done again, but, as mentioned, easier than hauling rifles.
Cal

Thanks. Will test this in Texas.

Had emailed the CBP Info Center posing the problem, asking to do just what you did, Cal, and noting that it is a nationwide issue for hunters and that all ports of entry should be prepared to just duplicate the 4457 with a current, 2017-dated signature. No reply as yet, but judging by the above, CBP officers are making the right judgment.

Regards, Tim

Talked with Outfitter in Joberg yesterday and they are only honoring the issue date for 1 year.

Be careful. I took my old 4457s and the new ones to Denver yesterday, and tried to do it without the rifles. I was told by the officer there that he needed to see the firearms. Luckily I had them in my vehicle, so it worked out. It probably depends on the officer you get.

Unfortunatly many customs folks and gov. offices don't even know their own regulations, but glad all worked out..According to custom regs update, Ive been told by friends who are Custom Agents that you need to bring the guns the first time, but if you have old 4457s they are transferable to the new forms..

Does anyone know if PHASA has been of any help solving the 4457 problem?

Ditto on the local agents not always being aware of the fine points (or even major points).
When that export license issue came up a few years ago, I called customs at Philly airport, the head agent wasn't even aware of the rule change and had no idea what I was referring to.
He took my number, and actually called me back after looking into it on his end, and was highly irate that, as he put it "it's amazing that we have to learn about this bull**** from the public".
Well, at least he called me back.

I went to Customs yesterday, with my firearms, and got new 4457's stamped with 2017 on them. No hassle at all.

Hey Cal,
You must admit Alaska,thank God,is in a different universe from many of the other states. Can you imagine having to renew a 4457 in California!

jhaney,et.al.,
Like most dealings with governments, things depend largely on the agent being dealt with. I got new 4457s in Ontario, CA a week ago with no problem at all. I called the office, made an appointment, was sent a reminder e-mail the day before the appointment, took the guns in at the appointed time, and it was all done in 20 minutes. The agent was courteous and a splendid example of professionalism. LAX, however, is another story!

quote:

Originally posted by jhaney:
Hey Cal,
You must admit Alaska,thank God,is in a different universe from many of the other states. Can you imagine having to renew a 4457 in California!

Alaska is wonderfully different. The customs office is in the international airport and there is no problems coming into the airport with a rifle. Tomorrow I will go there with 8 old 4457s for an update and will bring two rifles that I don't have the form for. It will be easy. It is great living in a state with absolutely no gun laws except private property laws--if a sign says "no firearms" we have to obey but we can carry, shoot, own, anything, anytime, anywhere. No permits for concealed or open carry. Often I see ladies and getns in Wal Mart and other stores with a pistol in a holster and no one looks twice.
Cal

Is this the CORRECT Form?

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/defa...BP%20Form%204457.pdf

Slider:
Yes it is and that is the one I am using now. However, with South African rules note the 2019 date. It will need to be updated by then.
Cal

Just to add to this post....Some forms out there don't have an expiration date. SAPS has said that they will accept these forms if they are stamped this year.

Found that info on another forum.

Moral of the story.....PDF documents can be turned into Word Documents for easier filling out and editing.

I got new 4457's for five guns about a week ago at the Philadelphia Customs office. I didn't bring the guns just the old 4457's. No problem, I was out in a short time with new forms.

some enterprising outfit needs to start issuing firearms "certificates" that list all the firearms owned by a particular person ... totally bogus ... but make it look like a stock certificate and put the stars and stripes on it, the presidential seal, the congressional medal of honor, and a couple of rubber stamps for good measure and it will bamboozle all those nitwits.

Went to customs today with two rifles for a new 4457 (.350 no2 rigby and a .500 nitro Watson Brothers) andeight "old" 4457s to be updated. No problems except the Japanese tourist lady who watched me intently in the airport with a pair of rifles.
Cal

I contacted two Customs offices in Seattle. I asked them if they had the new form.They told me the form does not expire.They said they ONLY had the same form that has been in there drawer for a couple years. They new NOTHING about a New Form? You better print off the FORM!!!The other office was at Boeing Field and they said to Print the current form and bring it in with the Rifles.

I made the 6hr roundtrip to U.S. Customs at King Co. Municipal Airport today. They weren't happy that I walked in with a double Pelican rifle case and a camo gun case? He said I should have left them in the vehicle?The officer took me into a locked room and I explained to him that I had called ahead and they recommended I bring in the new forms which I presented to him already filled out. He informed me that the form does NOT expire? I again told him yes they do and pointed to the expiration date on the form that I just gave him. He looked at it twice and was in disbelief. He asked me where I got these forms and then asked how I found out about it. After I told him he told me he was the Instructor and had no idea that there was a new Form? He checked ALL the forms he had in the drawer and they were the old forms. After he was done with the three rifles I told him I had 2 more out in the truck along with some camera equipment and a Drone. I asked him If I could put a digital camera,video camera and a drone all on the same form as I only had one blank form. He was unsure and finally said OK.

It is hard to believe how different officials and offices are within the same department. Glad I live in Alaska.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Gents:
I went to Anchorage today for a new 4457. The officer there told me many hunters are bringing in their firearms for the new 4457 to satisfy the South African requirements. So, I brought in a rifle that I will take to Zim this summer and mentioned I would be bringing several more to cover future hunts.

The officer told me I DID NOT have to bring in my firearms if I had a prior 4457. All I needed to do was to make out a new 4457 and transfer the serial number and other info on the old form and they would sign and stamp it.

This will save me lots of work as I live 110 miles from the customs office.

I hope this helps you gentlemen.
Cal

Today I went to the CBP office at DFW airport to update a 4457, the old 4457 was issued in 2005) and not surprisingly, a bunch of new faces stared at me from behind the glass. I explained what I needed accomplished, and after a short staff huddle, I was told to bring my rifle in for inspection. Didn't matter that I already had a 4457 for the rifle. After opening the case the Officer had me stand across the room while he looked at the rifle (I guess he thought I was going to do something with the rifle...never mind I had just unlocked and opened the case and hadn't done anything. After a short inspection, he went back behind the glass and as he entered info into his computer, asked me the value of the rifle and scope. When I asked why he needed that he said to make sure I wasn't charged "duty" when I reentered the country. He then asked me about several trips I had taken over the past three years where I had taken this rifle and about an upcoming trip in June (he said he saw I had airline reservations thru Dubai to South Africa), and when I asked how he knew where I had traveled he told me that the info was in their database. So, I guess they keep every bit of info they can on us bad, bad gun owners.
I hate to see the new bunch of guys at DFW because the ones that I've dealt with in the past were so easy to work with. By the way, every last one of them had the "Barney Fife" look on their face the entire time I was in their office, I guess an overweight, gray headed, 64 year old white man looks really dangerous these days.

Remember, those 'old' 4457s are still good everywhere else in the world, except South Africa, so don't throw them away. South Africa is the only country requiring 'updated' 4457s that I know of. I have 4457s on rifles that probably won't go back to Africa but will still likely go to Mexico or somewhere else and I'm not going to rush out to obtain new 4457s for them.

Per Karl's post above, if you don't think Big Brother is watching everything you do (especially gun owners)- THINK AGAIN,,, And why would he need the gun value if you own it when you left the country?

Still had to take my rifles to the customs office in OKC. Not a big deal but a hassle. Very nice lady signed the forms.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
Remember, those 'old' 4457s are still good everywhere else in the world, except South Africa, so don't throw them away. South Africa is the only country requiring 'updated' 4457s that I know of. I have 4457s on rifles that probably won't go back to Africa but will still likely go to Mexico or somewhere else and I'm not going to rush out to obtain new 4457s for them.

Oh yeah...he kept the old 4457 and wouldn't give it back. I asked for it, but English wasn't his first language so he might not have understood the request.

My wife has dearly loved our time spent at African Sky in the past while in transit to hunting destinations.

It's an 8 hour drive each way to get new 4457s for us.

I will avoid RSA if at all possible. In Sept, we will fly Emirates to Harare via Dubai.

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
Remember, those 'old' 4457s are still good everywhere else in the world, except South Africa, so don't throw them away. South Africa is the only country requiring 'updated' 4457s that I know of. I have 4457s on rifles that probably won't go back to Africa but will still likely go to Mexico or somewhere else and I'm not going to rush out to obtain new 4457s for them.

Oh yeah...he kept the old 4457 and wouldn't give it back. I asked for it, but English wasn't his first language so he might not have understood the request.

English wasn't his first language? Imagine that. Sounds like Miami airport. If you don't speak Spanish or Ebonics (AKA AAVE-African American vernacular English), you are in serious trouble.

quote:

Originally posted by jjbull:
My wife has dearly loved our time spent at African Sky in the past while in transit to hunting destinations.

It's an 8 hour drive each way to get new 4457s for us.

I will avoid RSA if at all possible. In Sept, we will fly Emirates to Harare via Dubai.

Double check and make sure your flight hasn't been cancelled. Emirates cut flights in selected US cities.

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
Remember, those 'old' 4457s are still good everywhere else in the world, except South Africa, so don't throw them away. South Africa is the only country requiring 'updated' 4457s that I know of. I have 4457s on rifles that probably won't go back to Africa but will still likely go to Mexico or somewhere else and I'm not going to rush out to obtain new 4457s for them.

Oh yeah...he kept the old 4457 and wouldn't give it back. I asked for it, but English wasn't his first language so he might not have understood the request.

Don't go to the office in DFW. Go to the one just off of US 114 (7501 Esters BLVD # 160, Irving, TX, 75063) on the NE edge of DFW. Unless they have changed from 2015...they are the same friendly guys as always.

Will be going myself in a few days...will report my experience.

That's where I went, I agree the staff used to be friendly and helpful. Maybe Monday was just a bad day to visit.

All this being said, a trip to a US C&BP office located in California is several hours away and requires an appointment (also impossible to reach by telephone). Online list of offices still lists a local office that is now closed. I think it might be easier to obtain a new 4457 by flying to Anchorage with my old 4457 and be treated efficiently and courteously!

Best regards, D. Nelson

Sioux Falls was great. I showed up with a handful of old forms an a couple of rifles, was done with a smile in 10 minutes.

I like the idea of somebody making up a bogus form with seals, stamps and other extraneous BS on it to bamboozle 'em, except it probably won't work. Siggggggghhhhhhh.
It is an 8 hr drive for me to get a new 4457. I won't make the drive for a new form so I guess I won't visit RSA until this is fixed.

quote:

Originally posted by D. Nelson:
All this being said, a trip to a US C&BP office located in California is several hours away and requires an appointment (also impossible to reach by telephone). Online list of offices still lists a local office that is now closed. I think it might be easier to obtain a new 4457 by flying to Anchorage with my old 4457 and be treated efficiently and courteously!

Best regards, D. Nelson

Should you do that, come by my place and shoot a few double rifles.
Thanks for the kind words about the office in Anchorage. They are nice folks. When I bring in a vintage double for the 4457 the entire office comes for a look and I invited them to our double shoot on May 6.
Cal