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I have great respect for this man as I'm certain many on this forum do. I can tell by the posts responding to Harry Selby's post. Included in the post "Selby's suggestion on calibers" which I posted a few days back, Harry Selby advised the .416 Rigby was the best PH rifle anyone could ask for. Why, then, is there such a call for the .458 Lott, 470 Nitro Express, 500 Nitro Express, 505 Gibbs, 600 Nitro Express and all the other huge bores a PH might use if the God of PH's used a .416 Rigby? Is this another "Close to the brain shot" kind of suggestion or am I reading too much into this fray? Keep in mind that Harry Selby himself did say the .416 Rigby was the best PH rifle a man could ask for. Thanks, jfm | ||
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Historically many fine hunters used doubles and had great success and were fine marksman. They made the shot when needed and always kept their heads when the proverbial sh.. hit the fan. Harry shot the 416 Rigby which is a great cartridge and has lots of room for additional powder. Harry shot it well and also put the bullet where it always did the most good. When one shoots a rifle that fits him perfectly timing and accuracy follow hand in hand... Don't forget accuracy!!! Mike | |||
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Whilst I have a great deal of respect for HS, I'd have serious doubts that he'd be happy with that particular title and personally, I'd say there's no such living entity as a God of PHs. As I see it, PHs are at least as diverse as any other group of people and in fact, probably more diverse than most others........ and calibre choice would be equally diverse.  | |||
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jfm, read the book. Selby had a .470 NE Double Rifle. Someone backed the truck over it and broke the stock, IIRC. The safari was delayed until HS could get to Nairobi and get a rifle. The 98 Mauser in 416 Rigby was what the store had on the rack and ammunition for it at the time. It just worked so well he never looked back. Rich The Double Rifle question: I have two, and they go "Boom-Boom" instead of "Boom-racka-clacka-racka-Boom" like bot rifles do. Besides that, you have immediate choice of soft point or solid. | |||
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I would think the reason people have the other calibers is that for quite a while the old Rigby was a bit hard to come by. And also very expensive when found. . | |||
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Rich, this is all we have been discussing for the past two weeks on this forum. Mr. Selby even sent some info through another member to clear all of this up. Weren't you paying attention?  Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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I just think that we probably put much more thought into a dangerous game rifle than the average PH does. It's part of our fanaticism; spending much more time "involved" with safari business than the time we will actually spend on such hunts. To many PHs, it seems, the rifle he uses is more a function of availability, affordability, or it's a piece given to or sold to them below cost by a company looking to increase awareness of their rifles ("Hey, my PH had one!") among African hunting clientele. The important factor to a PH, I would guess, is that it is capable of doing the job, whether it's a double or bolt rifle, a 416 Rigby or a 600 NE (Ivan!). It's a tool to get the job done if needed, not something to spend hours and hours over, comparing ballistics, reading reviews, etc. They're professional hunters....we're gun NUTS !!!! | |||
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Now if Ivan could only find a shoe sponsor!!!!! | |||
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Most of the old time PHs I've met over the years have told me the same thing: .416 Rigby was their alltime favorite. I asked Ron Sparrow once why and he said "Because it has enough power to penetrate an Elephants skull from all angles." He went on to say less recoil (.470s gave him a headache) and quicker reaction time were a plus. From personal experience, I agree with the Professional Hunters. The .416 Rigby also shoots flat enough to make those 200 yard shots on PG. LDK Gray Ghost Hunting Safaris http://grayghostsafaris.com Phone: 615-860-4333 Email: hunts@grayghostsafaris.com NRA Benefactor DSC Professional Member SCI Member RMEF Life Member NWTF Guardian Life Sponsor NAHC Life Member Rowland Ward - SCI Scorer Took the wife the Eastern Cape for her first hunt: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6881000262 Hunting in the Stormberg, Winterberg and Hankey Mountains of the Eastern Cape 2018 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4801073142 Hunting the Eastern Cape, RSA May 22nd - June 15th 2007 http://forums.accuratereloadin...=810104007#810104007 16 Days in Zimbabwe: Leopard, plains game, fowl and more: http://forums.accuratereloadin...=212108409#212108409 Natal: Rhino, Croc, Nyala, Bushbuck and more http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6341092311 Recent hunt in the Eastern Cape, August 2010: Pics added http://forums.accuratereloadin...261039941#9261039941 10 days in the Stormberg Mountains http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7781081322 Back in the Stormberg Mountains with friends: May-June 2017 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6001078232 "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading" - Thomas Jefferson Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running...... "If you're being chased by a Lion, you don't have to be faster than the Lion, you just have to be faster than the person next to you." | |||
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Gun enthusiasts are always trying to push the limits caliber wise. I recently read there is a 800 Nitro express. There are more over 40 caliber rifles now when you can hardly justify one than in the HEYDAY of African hunting when there were high bag limits. I would bet that most of the rifles in these heavy calibers will kill nothing more than paper here in the Good Ole USA! square shooter | |||
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Biebs, that is probably the best answer I have heard. That completely explains it and I think I finally understand. Getting me to completely understand something is no small task. Thanks for the responses all. jfm | |||
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There is no such things a God of PH. Just as there is no such thing as the best PH. | |||
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The latest issue of the Swedish gun rag "VAPEN Tidningen" has an piece about Harry Selby and his favorite rifles. Seems his everyday go to rifle was a Remington 721 .30-06 with a Weaver K-4 set on Buehler mounts. Also shown is a photo of Selby and Robert "Bob" Ruark sitting on some "safari car". Selby has in his hand a double rifle. Ruark is holding a Remington 721 with what looks like a Lyman "Alaskan" in Weaver mounts. Another photo shows a "Brace" of 11 guns. One double rifle, seven bolt action rifles and three sxs shotguns. The ony rifle pointed out in the photo is the Remington 721. A very interesting story about Selby and his time in Bechuanaland with the 721. "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" Hamlet III/ii | |||
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JBrown, that's what IIRC means. Educate me again, what did he take? Rich | |||
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I too have great respect for Mr. Selby, and I doubt you will find anyone who loves African hunting that dislikes him!
In the first place the .416 Rigby is not a rifle but a cartridge, and has no magical powers of accuracy! That is the domain of the rifle it is shot from! I’m not saying anything bad about the .416 Rigby cartridge it is only acceptable as a cartridge in a bolt action RIFLE.
The two cartridges in bold above are in direct competition with the 416 Rigby because they are bolt rifle cartridges as well, but the rest are designed for a very different type of rifle. So what I’m saying here is, if the PH wants a bolt rifle then these are the best choices he has, IMO, but if he selects the others it is because he wants a double rifle. The 470NE, 500NE, and the 600NE are double rifle rounds. Still with a bolt rifle chambered for the 458LOTT, or the 505 GIBBS, ammo both are easier to find than the old 416 Rigby, and in both cases they are more powerful than the 416 Rigby, and the PH rifle is for back-up on SHTF things that want to kill people.
Again the .416 Rigby is not a rifle but a cartridge, and may in fact be a very good choice but only in a bolt rifle. I’m certainly not claiming to know more that Mr. Selby on what works best in the cartridge field, but I do know that the use of his back-up rifle is rarely used to shoot plains game, so the long range capability of the .416 Rigby may be fine for the client who only want one rifle for everything on his safari. The PH, however, rarely shoot baits, or plains game with his back-up rifle. So considering the use the PH puts the rifle to, the chambering depends whether he wants a bolt rifle or a double. Both types are capable properly chambered, but the 416 Rigby, the 458 Lott, and the 505 Gibbs are not suited to double rifle use, and the 470NE, 500NE, and the 600NE are not suited to bolt rifles! SO! Are we talking about the best rifle or the best cartridge? The reason there were so many 416 Rigby rifle in the old days is because the rifles they cam chambered in were cheap German bolt rifles compared to the cost of any double rifle. Hinse it stands to reason that the cartridge one would pick would be one of the most powerful he could get in the bolt rifle he was buying, not because it was better than the chamberings that were found only in double rifles. …………………………………………………….. ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Mac, I was talking about cartridge power. I see your point though. Thanks for the reply and take care. jfm | |||
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