The allegation that Taylor was a Homosexual is based on conjecture, there is no Contemporary account confirming it, and so I believe there is no place for this kind of accusations in a biography.
He was a great hunter and someone I have high respect for regardless of his sexual orientation.

Aziz

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
BQ,

What?!! Do you really know this?

Boy, that is a tough one. If I had gone to all that effort to find it, it would be a natural tendency I guess to make off with it.

No reproduction replaced it, eh?

Was this Tony who took the grave marker?

You know what I really don't understand, but I guess I am not Spanish. There are a lot of Spanish Hunter heros in Spain. Like Sanchez-Arino, Medem, and of course the King Juan Carlos. But the bastards give them praise for what they shoot not how they act.

Spain is a wonderful place, full of wonderful people, and really shitty gun laws. Suffice it to say we don't have simnilar cultures, thank god!

Taylor is a real test case for all he-man African hunters, isn't he?

I have always loved the guy myself.

Platonically, of course.

Taylor had two things in common with most of the folks on AR:

I would have welcomed an opportunity to hunt with him, but wouldn't have cared to sleep with him.

The two activities are separate things.

quote:

Originally posted by darkside:
I wonder how 404 feels about all this?

The way 404 feels about it is-

because one AssClown put his little peabrain to work and tried to come up with some angle to deflect my criticism of his poor performance and flim-flaming me,

and who was pissed off I went off hunting PAC ele with another PH and told him to Fuck Off,


I think that darkman and others, intentionally or not, have been taken in and used by a BSer to covert up his mistakes, and continue to assist him in doing this.

quote:

Originally posted by 404WJJeffery:

quote:

Originally posted by darkside:
I wonder how 404 feels about all this?

The way 404 feels about it is-

because one AssClown put his little peabrain to work and tried to come up with some angle to deflect my criticism of his poor performance and flim-flaming me,

and who was pissed off I went off hunting PAC ele with another PH and told him to Fuck Off,


so how I thin about it is that darkman and others, intentionally or not, have been taken in and used by a BSer to covert up his mistakes, and continue to assist him in doing this.

WOW, that's a bit obtuse for me. Am I missing something? Any chance of an elaboration?

quote:

Originally posted by pichon1:

WOW, that's a bit obtuse for me. Am I missing something? Any chance of an elaboration?

You must have missed the soap opera thread. You may prefer to keep it that way...

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_Helm:

quote:

Originally posted by pichon1:

WOW, that's a bit obtuse for me. Am I missing something? Any chance of an elaboration?

You must have missed the soap opera thread. You may prefer to keep it that way...

Come on now, I really would like to know. Directions please.

quote:

Originally posted by pichon1:

Come on now, I really would like to know. Directions please.

You asked for it...

You were absolutely correct Charles maybe I should have kept it that way! Mind you some of it was pretty bloody hilarious.

quote:

Originally posted by bucko:

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
With all the comotion on homosexuality in today world, I'd rather a break from it on this Shooting- Hunting forum please...

What is it with people trying to contol the conversations on this damn board??
Oz if you don't like to read this kind of thing then why in the hell do you click on it?
And once you do and realize what it in here then just be quiet and stay away so that other people can enjoy free from the whining.

But be sure and drop off a list of approved subjects at the office on you way by would you please..


My ex wife had a gay friend who had made eyes at me a time or two, I let it pass since putting up with his wimpy games was easier to put up with than explaining to here why I decapitated her little friend.
Finally though he asked me if I had any problem with gay men, I said not really,, I just have one rule.
Don't touch my ass and I won't break your nose.

If you understand that rule then we will get along just peachy.
The silly looks stopped.

I would not have a damn bit of problem hunting with a gay man like Taylor.
Been around a lot of gay men and not a one has tried to rape me yet.
So in that light I have had a lot of women come on a lot harder to me that I have turned down.

I didn't get real tore up about it all either way.

Although I did read something interesting once about it all, it said that one in ten men in the US have had a homosexual experience..

Interesting.

I certainly didn't click onto this page to find out about Taylors sexual orientation nor would most people.
The Gay lifestyle just seems to be pushed into everyones face where ever you look and often even if you are not looking.

Quite frankly I couldn't give a fidlers F#*&$ who or what someone prefered to get it on with!

Nothing to say about Taylor other than I've tended to regard his books on African hunting & rifles as essential reading. Never read "A Man Called Lion" but, I was interested to see the bit about Taylors remains in Australia & reference to Brian Marsh. I have a older friend who knew Brian in Rhodesia in the 70s & wonder does Brian now live in Aus as I think Bob (friend) may be unaware of this if it is so. If not then why did Taylors remains end up in Aus?
Steve

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:

quote:

Originally posted by bucko:

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
With all the comotion on homosexuality in today world, I'd rather a break from it on this Shooting- Hunting forum please...

What is it with people trying to contol the conversations on this damn board??
Oz if you don't like to read this kind of thing then why in the hell do you click on it?
And once you do and realize what it in here then just be quiet and stay away so that other people can enjoy free from the whining.

But be sure and drop off a list of approved subjects at the office on you way by would you please..


My ex wife had a gay friend who had made eyes at me a time or two, I let it pass since putting up with his wimpy games was easier to put up with than explaining to here why I decapitated her little friend.
Finally though he asked me if I had any problem with gay men, I said not really,, I just have one rule.
Don't touch my ass and I won't break your nose.

If you understand that rule then we will get along just peachy.
The silly looks stopped.

I would not have a damn bit of problem hunting with a gay man like Taylor.
Been around a lot of gay men and not a one has tried to rape me yet.
So in that light I have had a lot of women come on a lot harder to me that I have turned down.

I didn't get real tore up about it all either way.

Although I did read something interesting once about it all, it said that one in ten men in the US have had a homosexual experience..

Interesting.

I certainly didn't click onto this page to find out about Taylors sexual orientation nor would most people.
The Gay lifestyle just seems to be pushed into everyones face where ever you look and often even if you are not looking.

Well then what in the hell is your excuse for doing so this time?

Now you are in a pickle are you not? You want to answer so badly but then if you do we will see your tracks here yet again..

Life is such a squirmy little deal at times is it not?

Having done a stint in Vice for punishment I have a different and less tolerable outlook on the alternative lifestyle, having observed such sexual practices between men and its vile to say the least. To most an alternative lifestyle is just a word so it is less offensive, but then I am not very liberal or politically correct therefore I dont' want a gay person within 50 miles of my camp...

As to Taylor, it has never been established that he was gay and I know he was a tough hard drinking man not opposed to cleaning out a bar or slugging it out in the alley and ending up in jail after whipping half the local police force until they beat him sinceless..I think that I will give him the benefit of the doubt until someone proves him guilty..I think we all deserve that much.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
As to Taylor, it has never been established that he was gay and I know he was a tough hard drinking man not opposed to cleaning out a bar or slugging it out in the alley and ending up in jail after whipping half the local police force until they beat him sinceless..I think that I will give him the benefit of the doubt until someone proves him guilty..I think we all deserve that much.

Ray,

You are absolutely correct about his entitlement to the benefit of the doubt.

But assume that he was a confirmed homosexual, if that was the only new piece of information you learned about him, are you saying that would change your entire view of the man? This has probably transcended the Hunting Forum and needs to be on the Political Forum. I am not an advocate of "alternative" lifestyles, but if I had an otherwise positive impression of someone based on their life long contributions as a person, hunter, shooter, ballistic's expert, author, etc., not sure I would let their sexuality wipe out the balance of my views about them.

>>>>>>>>As to Taylor, it has never been established that he was gay and I know he was a tough hard drinking man not opposed to cleaning out a bar or slugging it out in the alley and ending up in jail after whipping half the local police force until they beat him sinceless..I think that I will give him the benefit of the doubt until someone proves him guilty..I think we all deserve that much.>>>>>>>

Ray, have you read "A Man Called Lion?" The authors presented considerable evidence of his homosexuality, albeit some of it circumstantial, then left readers to draw their own conclusions. What I can't understand is why so many of his avid fans rush to deny it without weighing the evidence Marsh collected and Capstick presented.

Bill Quimby

Homosexual or not, John Taylor is one guy I'd want at my shoulder when facing a buffalo or elephant charge.

Certainly more so than some other self-proclaimed 'heroes'.

George

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Having done a stint in Vice for punishment I have a different and less tolerable outlook on the alternative lifestyle, having observed such sexual practices between men and its vile to say the least. To most an alternative lifestyle is just a word so it is less offensive, but then I am not very liberal or politically correct therefore I dont' want a gay person within 50 miles of my camp...

As to Taylor, it has never been established that he was gay and I know he was a tough hard drinking man not opposed to cleaning out a bar or slugging it out in the alley and ending up in jail after whipping half the local police force until they beat him sinceless..I think that I will give him the benefit of the doubt until someone proves him guilty..I think we all deserve that much.

Hey Ray,
given the supposed stats on homosexuallity it is pretty damn near impossible not to be within 50 miles of a gay person where ever you are. I know this may shock you but they are EVERYWHERE. (scary isn't it) So, if there happened to be one of those nasty "poofters" camped within "50 miles" of your good self don't tell me you'd be sitting in your tent all night with your legs firmly crossed and the torch on. Didn't you have anything better to do in Vice than "observe sexual practices between men" You weren't hiding in a wardrobe were you? Get over the homophobia, I'm sure those nasty people won't bother you if you leave them alone.
Oh, by the way, if Pondoro was gay (and I couldn't give a pinch of billy goat shit if he was) I still couldn't think of a better fellow to share a camp with and I would not feel the need to wear a chastity belt. Brave, arn't I!!

quote:

Originally posted by Shinzo:
Nothing to say about Taylor other than I've tended to regard his books on African hunting & rifles as essential reading. Never read "A Man Called Lion" but, I was interested to see the bit about Taylors remains in Australia & reference to Brian Marsh. I have a older friend who knew Brian in Rhodesia in the 70s & wonder does Brian now live in Aus as I think Bob (friend) may be unaware of this if it is so. If not then why did Taylors remains end up in Aus?
Steve

There was a note in Magnum magazine that Brian Marsh passed Taylor's ashes on to a bloke, who is a big fan of Taylors, in Australia.

I happened to find out who that is but I am sworn to secrecy.

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:
>>>>>>>>As to Taylor, it has never been established that he was gay and I know he was a tough hard drinking man not opposed to cleaning out a bar or slugging it out in the alley and ending up in jail after whipping half the local police force until they beat him sinceless..I think that I will give him the benefit of the doubt until someone proves him guilty..I think we all deserve that much.>>>>>>>

Ray, have you read "A Man Called Lion?" The authors presented considerable evidence of his homosexuality, albeit some of it circumstantial, then left readers to draw their own conclusions. What I can't understand is why so many of his avid fans rush to deny it without weighing the evidence Marsh collected and Capstick presented.

Bill Quimby

Bill,

In my opinion there is NO evidence in a Man Called Lion. It is all conjecture. It is conjecture that is why he was booted out of Mozambique but that is all it is.

To my recollection Marsh never said that Taylor had told him such or any such thing.

Reportedly there is a self admission by Taylor in Shadows of Shame, but I have not read it nor intend to.

BTW, it was reportedly by Taylor's request that his ashes be sent to Mozambuque after his death.

>>>>>>Bill, In my opinion there is NO evidence in a Man Called Lion. It is all conjecture. It is conjecture that is why he was booted out of Mozambique but that is all it is. <<<<<<


Bill:

In my opinion "A Man Called Lion" presented more than speculation, so I guess we can agree to disagree.

Bill Quimby

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I keep coming back to, who the hell cares and what difference does it make in terms of his enduring contributions to ballistics and hunting?

Evidently a lot of people care, or they wouldn't be denying, or affirming it so much! I say, So he was gay, who gives a shit, but that has nothing to do with it being including in his biography,just like his love of hunting elephant, or for fine double rifles, That is simply part of who he was!

Poof not a poof who cares, he's been dead longer than I have been alive and no one here knew him personally, or even "gasp" more than personally.

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
Poof not a poof who cares, he's been dead longer than I have been alive and no one here knew him personally, or even "gasp" more than personally.

So in your opinion that precludes anyone wanting to discuss the fellow, (because he's been dead longer than you have been alive)? Maybe when you grow up you will become wiser, there is always hope.I don't think time began when you were born.

quote:

Originally posted by PSmith:
What I found interesting was Sanchez-Arino's comments about Capstick, not the part about John Taylor.

What's so interesting?

Whatever his faults, PHC seems to have nailed a few things with remarkable precision. Among those would be his observation that there is an incredible amount of jealousy that exists among PH's.

Sanchez-Arino is simply parading that fault.

He never attempts to claim that PHC got anything wrong let alone made up a bunch of fairytales (ahem) about John Taylor. Yet he's using the pretext that PHC included some things in the biography of Taylor that he wouldn't have, had he thought of writing the book, to attack PHC as an inveterate liar and sensationalist.

It's a ridiculous line of attack. PHC's imagined or accused level of honesty might be relevant to a critique of one of his books where those flaws effected the work. But if you can't demonstrate that a particular author lied or made stuff up in the work in question, it's just gratuitous character assassination to call the guy a liar and thief in a work you admit is "well documented." And petty.

Also catty and frankly effeminate.

Sanchez-Arino's main beef is that the author, who he pretends he's above identifying although he drops enough hints to make damned sure you know who he's talking about, violated privacy by revealing personal details that should have been left private, and by doing so cast someone in an unpleasant light. For some reason he expresses the opinion that the author in question should have only expressed admiration for the subject. Then, once he gets going, unloads every bit of dirt he can scrape up PHC.

We can hardly conclude that it's bad form to cast anyone in a bad light in print as a general matter of principle with Tony Sanchez-Arino. It's a privilege of caste to be enjoyed by himself and Pondoro. Not Capsick, whom he rips into as a pretender.

Which has exactly what-all to do with a book in which Capstick didn't get anything that Sanchez-Arino can point out as wrong or made up?

Nothing.

I read and reread the excerpt and kept imagining what a conversation with the guy would be like.

Me: "So, Tony, read any good books lately?"

Tony Sanchez-Arino: "I read a biography of John 'Pondoro' Taylor. It was well documented and for the most part well written. It did include some facts that were best left out. Anybody with taste or breeding would have left them out."

Me: "I'm already sorry I asked."

Tony Sanchez-Arino: "Yes, the pig who shall remain nameless included unfortunate facts in his book. He didn't know any better. But how can you expect any better of a man of such limited experience. Wild horses could not drag his name from me, though, for if his name were to pass my lips I will have lowered myself to his level. If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing."

"This is my sacred rule. He violated the sacred rule that if you don't have something nice to say, then say nothing. I am a gentleman. He was not.

Me: "It's like night and day, the difference."

Tony Sanchez-Arino: "Here is a link to an article about the lying bastard whose name shall not pass my lips on Wikipedia that I recently vandalized. See the part about how his honesty was questioned "frequently to the point of outright fabrication?" I wrote that. Actually I wrote that the shitbird was a lying thieving bastard and I was glad he's dead. Somebody edited that, and since I've been banned from the site I can't change it back. Now I spend my free time on Amazon.com writing nasty reviews of his books. Thus do I deal with those who violate the rule of not saying anything if you can't say anything nice. But I shall not sink to the level of the despicable American author whose first initial is "P" and last initial is "C" and whose middle name is HATHAWAY.

Nope. I shall not sink to the level of Peter H. Douchebag and utter an evil word about the man who published lies about me robbing a grave. Nor shall I identify the best selling author of "Death in the Long Grass" published by Safari Press whose catalog is available on the internet.

You must accept the fact that the guy I'm still attacking over 10 years after he up and died and who apparently dominates my every waking breath is a matter of absolutely no importance to me."

Me: "You're a class act, Tony. I still have no idea who you're talking about."

Tony Sanchez-Arino: "How thick are you?"

Me: "You're the guy pointing the rifle at me. How thick do yo want me to be?"

I'm not sure i agree with the logic that somehow sensationalizing a guy's homosexuality would be an effort to sell book; especially in the sporting 'literature' set. One would only suspect that if someone were buying a book on the basis of homosexuality, it was homosexuality they were interested in, not the remainder of the persons life.
PHC's book is "the life and Times" of Taylor, not "12 new and exciting stories of Taylor's hunting." Anyone who disagrees that telling of a persons sexuality in the context of telling the life story of a person is nuts. The whole idea of a biography is to learn about a person, not just a certain aspect of him. George Mallory (who may have climbed Everest waaay before HIllary) had many homosexual experiences in school. This, in a way, shaped him as a person. Although he was married later, this type of behavior has an affect on a person and in many ways has an affect on the people surrounding the person.

I know many people who pshaw PHC's experience, ability, truthfulness and his integrity or lack thereof. I can;t help but feel they are in some ways jealous that, in spite of what the truth may be, PHC's name is so closely associated with modern African hunting and theirs is not. They are frustrated in that they feel that someone with a high degree of ineptitude has been 'chosen' as their representative when in fact, if they just take care of their own lives and stop worrying about anyones else's they would be so much more the happier.

Hilarious.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:


There was a note in Magnum magazine that Brian Marsh passed Taylor's ashes on to a bloke, who is a big fan of Taylors, in Australia.

I happened to find out who that is but I am sworn to secrecy.

Thanks Will, thats answered my query, the rest I don't need to know. Bob gets Magnum & often passes them on to me but I don't recall that bit.
Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Shinzo:

quote:

Originally posted by Will:


There was a note in Magnum magazine that Brian Marsh passed Taylor's ashes on to a bloke, who is a big fan of Taylors, in Australia.

I happened to find out who that is but I am sworn to secrecy.

Thanks Will, thats answered my query, the rest I don't need to know. Bob gets Magnum & often passes them on to me but I don't recall that bit.
Steve

Sorry, I have received a clarification that it is actually the urn that was used originally for Taylor's ashes when sent to Mozambique from England that was collected by Brian Marsh and passed on to the guy in Australia.

Reportedly Taylor's and Aly's ashes remain together in Mozambique.

I can't help but feel rather insignificant when I think about my ashes being eventually tossed into a roadside ditch in its carboard box urn.

quote:

Originally posted by pichon1:

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
Poof not a poof who cares, he's been dead longer than I have been alive and no one here knew him personally, or even "gasp" more than personally.

So in your opinion that precludes anyone wanting to discuss the fellow, (because he's been dead longer than you have been alive)? Maybe when you grow up you will become wiser, there is always hope.I don't think time began when you were born.

I don't think you understood me.

If Taylor was as Kevin Blood Wilson says a "limpe wristed donut puncher", it happened long ago. He killed more elephants that anyone alive today.

Why would I want to grow up, my girlfriend tells me that I am 33 going on 8.

I think PHC's book "A Man Called Lion" should be re-titled to "Kick The Dead Lion". Yes, its easy to slam a great african hunter like Taylor...who is not around to defend himself anymore.
No,I have never read "A Man Called Lion" (and never will) but others on here have, and say there's not any real evidence printed there. I am entitled to to my opinion, just as everybody else; and I'll personally read Taylor's books over PHCs anyday!
I don't think Capstick ever fully understood the bond between a real African hunter and his tracker. Facing dangers & adventures together on nearly a daily basis...makes for close friends, almost brothers out of the hunter & his tracker. This does not mean they're queer. I beleive this was the situation between Taylor and his tracker Aly (although I may be wrong). I have a signed letter from Taylor to close friend Alexander Maitland, where he talks about his "faithful Aly" and money he sent him. (Funny, he also ask Alex if he's meeting soon with Tony Sanchez).
I wonder just how hard Pondoro would laugh if he saw some of PHC's videos, where this self proclaimed PH and Game Control Officer spies a hippo coming out of the water 200 yards away; craps his pants and makes a dive...yelling Watch Out, He's charging!! Or when he shoots an elephant at 150 yards with a scoped .375? (What real PH, or Cropping Officer would shoot one like that?)
Yes, I agree PHC has done much to promote adventure hunting in Africa....but please don't believe everything he wrote!

All I know of Taylor are from three books, so I am a bit in the dark. I view him a little like PH Capstick as some of his tales are not verifiable and some of his statements don't ring true to me. John Boyes sometimes let facts get in the way of a good story.

As an engineer, I have read about the knockout values. I defer to him on his experience, but the number are relative indicators, not cold, hard figures like muzzle energy or trajectory. After having watch a number of videos, read hunting reports, talked at length to a couple of experienced elephant hunters, I think that bullet type and placement in .375 and larger make the difference versus sheer power of the .577 or something similar.

Boddington's recent article told me that placement is the key, not always the power, hence his effort to take a water buffalo with a .257 using a solid.

On Taylor's "eccentricities" - I am not sure, but where there is smoke there is fire. He was a strange guy to say the least. I would not want to have "been him". He died badly and did not seem to be a happy person.

On Sanchez-Arino, I read one of his books and his wife's book. I found her more courageous and interesting than him. I prefer Harlard or Manners or others to Arino.

All here must admit, in one way or another, that this is an intersting thread. I'm impressed. Some days I'm not, and some of those due to my own #@$%^&*, but today I'm glad that I'm part of AR. Except for maybe what Ray said.

Time to get that book. Tony's too.

Sanchez-Arino, like many who wish to be considered authorities, was to some considerable extent a self-promoter.

Still, he did not flinch from telling the truth, even when it might be deemed to reflect poorly on Sanchez-Arino himself.

Having read much of their work, I would tend generally to trust Sanchez-Arino more than Capstick.

On the other hand, Capstick was entertaining, and that counts for a lot in my book.

A good motto is: Never turn off the BS detector when reading or listening to anything or anybody.

quote:

Or when he shoots an elephant at 150 yards with a scoped .375? (What real PH, or Cropping Officer would shoot one like that?)

What the hell are you talking about? Did I miss something in one of PHC;s videos? Jerry Heiner kills a, ele with a 458(I think) from about 50, PHC kills on at 60 +- with a double. Where is the 150 yard scoped 375 shot? Talk about BS, man either identify the source or retract the statement.

I'm no PHC apologist but can;t stand when people make comment with no proof, just the same as one accuses PHC of doing. And how can you have an opinion about a book you've never read. Sorry man, but that is about the most lame thing I have heard. If you think PHC 'slams' Taylor, read the goddam book yourself and THEN and only then, make a comment.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Sanchez-Arino, like many who wish to be considered authorities, was to some considerable extent a self-promoter.

Still, he did not flinch from telling the truth, even when it might be deemed to reflect poorly on Sanchez-Arino himself.

Did he die? I hope not.

I agree, but if I had dropped a round in from of him I would not have bent over to pick it up.

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
Homosexual or not, John Taylor is one guy I'd want at my shoulder when facing a buffalo or elephant charge.

Certainly more so than some other self-proclaimed 'heroes'.

George

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Sanchez-Arino, like many who wish to be considered authorities, was to some considerable extent a self-promoter.

Still, he did not flinch from telling the truth, even when it might be deemed to reflect poorly on Sanchez-Arino himself.

Did he die? I hope not.

No, to my knowledge, he is still alive and kicking. By speaking in the past tense, I only meant to refer to the books he has written to date.

I understand that Sanchez-Arino does some PH work in Tanzania these days, or at least he has done within the past couple of years. Not sure how old he is.

Nobody will discuss the experience of Tony Sanchez-Arino ,but a lot of men that have greater experience than Tony ,including our own GANYANA have a great respect for PHC.I believe that this true afrikaners born and breed in AFRICA ,who fougth for their countries,participated in conservation programs,cullings,worked as game rangers and some of them like GANYANA even have universitary degrees in wildlife ARE THE REAL PROFESSIONALS a lot of times disminished byTny saying things that oh yes they dont have the age to kill so many elephants or lions ,or the NEW PHs arent good ,or choose another work the days of professional hunting are gone,I NEVER HEARD GANYANA SPEAKING IN SUCH NEGATIVE WAY ,NOR RICHARD HARLAND...SO IF YOU ARE MORE TIME IN SPAIN IN HIGH CLASS DINNERS THAN IN THE BUSH at least dont call apprentice to a death man the was a game ranger and was a BRIGTHLIGTH .Juan

What I enjoyed most in reading about Taylor is that he was a renegade…

None of this benevolent great white hunter crap…

Taylor was upfront with what he did and how he did it…

Who cares if he was gay?

I have to agree with an earlier post that none of us would call him out on it if we were face to face with him anyway...