Anyone hunted Buffalo with this rifle recently, or have any personal experience with it? I've never owned a Sako, but seems like every time I look at one it's talking to me.

I have one, with a synthetic stock, and I love it. Sako is one of my favourite actions.

I would not hesitate hunting buffalo with it.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

I would not hesitate hunting buffalo with it.

I think Saeed has proven without a doubt that a Sako 75 action rifle can work on all African game.

I used my stainless/synthetic Sako 75 in 375H&H on my first safari (buffalo & plainsgame). I used it for everything as my 458 WM was in the Landcruiser when we came across the tracks of my buffalo. The Sako 75 is one of my most accurate rifles. Some people don't like their plastic stocks, but it fits me well and is very easy to shoot. I also like the detachable magazine design and the fact that the magazine holds 4 rounds.

Tim

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I have one, with a synthetic stock, and I love it. Sako is one of my favourite actions.

I would not hesitate hunting buffalo with it.

Kensco, the above is Saeed's opinion, but then you have to take into consideration he thinks Remongton 700s are good actions as well!

If you want the 180 degree opposite opinion of the rest of the dangerous game hunting world, Then all you have to know is the SAKO,like the 700 is a PUSH FEED! Also like the 700 it is a nice prairie dog rifle but no pushfeed rifle is well suited to Dangerous game hunting !

He thinks M700s are good because they are. I have never had a failure in a M700, something I can't say for the M70s that I no longer own. Including custom shop and super grade models, that you would expect a little more out of.

I WILL NEVER AGAIN OWN A M70 ACTIONED RIFLE. If I need CRF it will be a Mauser.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I have one, with a synthetic stock, and I love it. Sako is one of my favourite actions.

I would not hesitate hunting buffalo with it.

Kensco, the above is Saeed's opinion, but then you have to take into consideration he thinks Remongton 700s are good actions as well!

If you want the 180 degree opposite opinion of the rest of the dangerous game hunting world, Then all you have to know is the SAKO,like the 700 is a PUSH FEED! Also like the 700 it is a nice prairie dog rifle but no pushfeed rifle is well suited to Dangerous game hunting !

Mac my friend, here is another revelation. If I was given the choice between using an original Mauser or a Remington 700 to hunt with, I would pick the Remington without any hesitation.

I think the "push feed" controversy has been blown way out of proportions.

I side with MacD37 on this one. If you can afford it why face dangerous game with a push feed? Why?

The 75 Sako's may be a partial CRF in the Safari version. No never mind to me as I am waiting for Sakos owners to fess up on why they are blowing up!

As to the Remingtons the bolt handles are brazed onto the rear section of the bolt body which is brazed onto the front section which has the locking lugs. The Remington 722/700 series is the cheapest design that could be dreamed up in 1949. There are better designs now and there were then.

I like the 40X for single shot competition. It has served me well there.

I agree with Saeed. I've shot push feed rifles for something like 38 years and never had a problem........as far as I'm concerned this obsession with CRFs is no more than snobbery.. All rifles have their faults and the CRF are no better than a good push feed rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I have one, with a synthetic stock, and I love it. Sako is one of my favourite actions.

I would not hesitate hunting buffalo with it.

Kensco, the above is Saeed's opinion, but then you have to take into consideration he thinks Remongton 700s are good actions as well!

If you want the 180 degree opposite opinion of the rest of the dangerous game hunting world, Then all you have to know is the SAKO,like the 700 is a PUSH FEED! Also like the 700 it is a nice prairie dog rifle but no pushfeed rifle is well suited to Dangerous game hunting !

Mac my friend, here is another revelation. If I was given the choice between using an original Mauser or a Remington 700 to hunt with, I would pick the Remington without any hesitation.

I think the "push feed" controversy has been blown way out of proportions.

Damned right. I don't like Remingtons, and would never choose one over a good Mauser, but I do agree with Saeed and many others, BTW--including Finn Aagaard and other notable African PHs and experienced safari hunters--that the advantage of the controlled round feed over the push feed is so infinitesimally small as to be theoretical only.

I have several CRF rifles and have used them on DG with complete confidence. But I have also used push feed rifles on DG with no less confidence and would be quite happy, any time, to use a Sako 75.

quote:

I've shot push feed rifles for something like 38 years and never had a problem.......

This is like saying that those who use parachutes that don't open all of the time have never complained about it. Check with the guide on Admiralty Island. He was using a Sako and it jammed with a double feed.

I said pushfeed - I didn't specify which make....

There are times when things can go wrong with any rifle - or come to that human error can cause things like short stroke. I've never seen a mauser action in .375 and related calibres that doesn't go donk when you tip it forward with a round in the mag - doesn't sound like much but it's bloody important when you're a few paces from something big and ugly!

I'd actually go further and say that I'd rather hunt with my push feed weatherby actioned .500 Jeffrey built by Sabi Rifles than any CRF rifle I've ever seen........You can hunt with whatever you like - me, I'll stick with what I have confidence in.

Savage99,

Just wondering have you ever seen a Sako 75 that blew up? Or is it just internet rumors that people seem to repeat without knowing if it is true?

I happen to own several model of both Push feed and CRF. I happen to like an HS Precision action the best which is a push feed with a Sako type extractor. I have been using it for about 7 years and shot it all the time never with a problem. I alos own a Model 70 and a Ruger RSM and they are booth fine guns.

I agree with Saeed and feel it is more important to have whichever action you choose for dangerous game and use it and get familar with and make sure it functions properly.

Besides the last story which we heard of a gun failing to work when needed was a Mod 70 used by a very experienced hunter, Jack Atcheson,

I have come to my personal conclusion that the only true DGR is a Double Rifle.

quote:

Just wondering have you ever seen a Sako 75 that blew up? Or is it just internet rumors that people seem to repeat without knowing if it is true?

Sako's were blowing up as I saw pictures of them. Did you see the pictures?



I don't call this an internet rumor but an internet fact.

The Berreta company has zero credibility with me. I have no respect for them at all.

quote:

Besides the last story which we heard of a gun failing to work when needed was a Mod 70 used by a very experienced hunter, Jack Atcheson,

I recall that happened to Jacks daughter in law. The reaction by the Atchesons was to get that defect in the M70 Classic corrected and to continue using the M70 CRF.

Savage99,

There is no action made that cannot be blown up.

My father had an H&H Mauser in 244 H&H magnum blow up on him with H&H factory ammo. A piece of the action got inbedded in his face, missing his eye by about an inch.

H&H replaced the rifle free of charge. This happened in the easrly 60s.

I can assure you there are rifles, of every make, that blow up a lot more than we hear about them.

Each one of us has his own preferences and prejudices. We just have to live with them.

It is just a picture you found on the Internet, so you did not see it blow up and you do not know the circumstances either. I am sure we can find pictures of all models that have blown up.

And the fact is your "perfect" CRF Mod 70 did fail to hot when it was needed.

Again I like my model 70 and would use it for dangerous game just as I would my HS Precision.

It is all personal likings an experiance. It does amaze me how some people get so worked up by what other people want to shot.

I am still sticking with my conclusion that the only true DGR is a Double Rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

... you have to know is the SAKO,like the 700 is a PUSH FEED!

Yawn!
- mike

I think there's an awful lot to be said for in favour of double rifles - but as with all rifles (even CRFs ) there's pro's & con's. -

However I don't like any double rifle that has one of those slow heavy cocking levers instead of a proper safety catch......

The Sako/Tikka blow ups are a current topic with me. It seems that Berreta is waiting for it to blow over. Can someone assure me that Berretta had sent out a warning on the blow ups? As I recall about 40 or more guns blew and we wonder if it was a defective lot of metal or heat treating?

The thing about the CRF vrs the PF debate is that it's operator error that makes the PF less fool proof. It's a why not issue when dangerous game is hunted.

quote:

The thing about the CRF vrs the PF debate is that it's operator error that makes the PF less fool proof. It's a why not issue when dangerous game is hunted.

On what evidence do you come to that conclusion? ......... I've certainly never seen any proof of it and I've a fairly extensive experience of hunting with many different people of varying experience and competancy and a wide range of rifles.

Kensco.

Spent a day test firing safari rifles against each other. The thing that sticks in my mind was just how soft the Sako stainless/synth was to fire. Made .375hh feel like a 30 '06. So much so, that many of my friends remarked on the fact.

The blowup thing is now a non issue. Poor grade batch of Stainless (high sulphur content) led to a series of very major detonations. The affected serials are known and have been recalled/replaced by manufacturer.

As with flying on airplanes post 9/11 - the Sako range is now safer than ever. I unreservedly recommend it to you.

regards Ian

quote:

On what evidence do you come to that conclusion? ......... I've certainly never seen any proof of it and I've a fairly extensive experience of hunting with many different people of varying experience and competancy and a wide range of rifles.

Anyone can duplicate a jam. Just feed a round half way into the chamber, now pull the bolt back and feed another. Thats all there is too it. With a CRF it will pull the first round back and eject it and then feed the second.

The guide in AK jammed his Sako and the bear chewed his hands and feet. I have posted it here before. Be careful.

quote:

The blowup thing is now a non issue. Poor grade batch of Stainless (high sulphur content) led to a series of very major detonations. The affected serials are known and have been recalled/replaced by manufacturer.

As with flying on airplanes post 9/11 - the Sako range is now safer than ever. I unreservedly recommend it to you.

I don't agree with you at all.

I can't agree with you that CRF is any better or safer than a pushfeed - both have inherent faults, both can develop problems and both can behave flawlwssly and human error can affect either type - it strikes me that you're expressing a personal opinion formed not by personal experience but by hearsay as fact.......which (with all due respect) is somewhat ridiculous.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
I can't agree with you that CRF is any better or safer than a pushfeed - both have inherent faults, both can develop problems and both can behave flawlwssly and human error can affect either type - it strikes me that you're expressing a personal opinion formed not by personal experience but by hearsay as fact.......which (with all due respect) is somewhat ridiculous.

Nicely said, It seems everyone on the Internet is an Expert and we really do not know if they have ever been away from their Computer Terminal. I would tend to take the advice of someone like your self or Saeed that we all know have experience.

quote:

Originally posted by Shumba:

I used my stainless/synthetic Sako 75 in 375H&H on my first safari (buffalo & plainsgame).
Tim

Please note I said my "First" safari. Now I hunt with Pre-64 M70's (458WM & 375HH supergrades) and custom mausers (404J and 9.3x62 under construction).

Tim

Now! That we have the donnibrook going strong, let's look at what was said! This never will be settled, as you plainly see from the posts here.

However, the question was asked, and my first post is my opinion! I love Sako rifles, and have a couple, I also have a couple of Mod 700 Remington rifles, as well as a couple of discontinued Rem 788s, all PF, but my rifles that are used for dangerous game are either S/S Double rifles or CRF Mausers, or Mauser clones, all the bolt guns have CRF.


The excuses for useing, or not useing PF, are as follows, according to the posts above!

A Mod 70 (CRF)failed to fire when needed, several persons have used push feeds for 200 yrs without a failier, Bolt handles are brazed on (on 700s), push feeds only fail when the shooter short shifts,SAKOs blow up, Things have changed with PF rifles since 1948, and the dumbest statement ever printed anyplace is, "A push feed with a Sako type extractor is a SIMI- CONTROL FEED!"

First off, none of the malfunctions had one thing to do with whether the rifle was CRF, or PF.

Kieth Atchison's mod 70 failed to fire because the safety was not fully released, the Sakos blowing, have nothing to do with the feeding system, a bolt handle coming off in your hand has nothing to do with CRF, or PF, and a PF that is better than it was in 1948 is still a PF!

Gentlemen, what changes is the SHOOTER when he gets under the stress of being in front of a chargeing Elephant, or Buffalo, not the feeding system. In fact IMO, Any Bolt rifle, regardless of CRF, or PF, is a poor second choice for taking a close charge, to a double rifle.

The best guy in the world who has shot his PF rifle for 50 yrs, shooting P-Dogs, and Buffalo at 200 yds, and never had a shortstroke, is no qualification for the PF action, as a DGR. The PF action will work fine if it is used properly, but the difference is, a CRF will not double feed, even with a short stroke,and a PF will, every time. Untill you short stroke a push feed, and get two cartridges vieing for the same chamber,you have not found the weakness of the PF action. If short stroked,meaning (FIRED, then bolt worked, to strip another round off the magazine, then not chambered, before drawing the bolt back again,because of stress,of a close encounter) the CRF will kick the stripped off round out of the rifle,before it can pick up another round off the top of the magazine, leaving the bolt free to take the next round into the chamber. The same sittuation, with a PF, will have two rounds in front of that bolt and the chamber can only take one at a time.

Gentlemen, the weakness of the PF rifle is the IDIOT shooting it, not the feeding system it's self! The Mauser type CRF takes the Idiot out of the equasion. With the CRF you cannot get the next round off the Magazine without ejecting the first one, or have a round bounch out of the loading port while running,because the bolt has control of the round. While re-loading a PF, you can do both.

What you choose to use is certainly up to you, but all the success in the world you have had with PF,changes nothing, as far as design superiority is concerened. Lets use the example of Keith's rifle (a CRF, though the feeding had nothing to do with the failier)Mod 70, all the thousands of rounds shot through Mod 70s, with the safeties working properly changed nothing when Keith needed that rifle to work properly. The rifle did work properly, Keith failed to work the safety properly. This compared to the malfunctioning of Rem 700 safeties haveing killed people on several occasions. The same goes for the PF actions, but the feeding of the PF is easier to screw up that a CRF system, Case closed.

Saeed, is the type who doesn't get flustered when hunting ANYTHING, and in his hands, the PF works, simply because he can work it properly under all conditions. The weakness is still there, however, and if he happens to stumble at the wrong time,the weakness will show it's ugly face.

The Joker who uses the PF, but has little experience with "BITE BACKS" is the guy who will find this weakness in the PF system,most often, when things get tight, and his nerve goes south, and is the guy most likely to be useing a PF action on dangerous game, in the first place.

My question is, since the CRF costs no more,while removing the PF Boog-a-Boo, why take the chance?

Mac,

In my case I went for the PF for the simple reason I'm left handed and at the time couldn't buy a left handed CRF action.......and there's plenty of people in the same boat.- although I acknowledge it's now easier to buy a left handed CRF action.......(I would guess it's always been easier in the US than elsewhere)

But one big advantage of a PF that never seems to get mentioned is if you shoot out and need to get a single round chambered very quickly, it's less complicated and faster.......That said, I've never been in that situation - yet.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Mac,

In my case I went for the PF for the simple reason I'm left handed and at the time couldn't buy a left handed CRF action.......and there's plenty of people in the same boat.-


But one big advantage of a PF that never seems to get mentioned is if you shoot out and need to get a single round chambered very quickly, it's less complicated and faster.......That said, I've never been in that situation - yet.

I understand the lefty sittuation, and sympothise. That is why Boddington so often over the years used PF actioned rifles, but as you say there is no excuse today!

The so-called single round advantage with a PF is not the case with a properly made CRF! all mine will take a single round just like a PF. One more myth to justify a PF action shot down!

A push-feed doesn't worry me. (Nearly every accident I investigate has human error as the root cause.)

Saeed's experience means a lot. As a matter of fact my choices have been narrowed down to a Browning A-Bolt Medallion, a Sako 75 Deluxe, or a Remington 700 APR. I think they are all push-feeds. Everything else I've considered is either too damn ugly or too expensive.

Right now the Sako has a nose in front of the Browning and the Remington is my third choice. I need to make a decision by the end of the month.

Who handles Sako in the Dallas area? (I prefer to buy from Ray's Hardware.) Since the Remington is a Custom Shop item, are there delivery delays, or can you find them on the rack? I need the rifle to be waiting for me when I hit Dallas on the 15th of September.

I appreciate all the various recommendations.

quote:

Originally posted by Kensco:

Who handles Sako in the Dallas area? (I prefer to buy from Ray's Hardware.) Since the Remington is a Custom Shop item, are there delivery delays, or can you find them on the rack? I need the rifle to be waiting for me when I hit Dallas on the 15th of September.

I appreciate all the various recommendations.

There is a Beretta Gallery:

Beretta Gallery - Dallas
41 Highland Park Village
Dallas, Texas, USA 75205
Phone: 214.559.9800
Fax: 214.559.9805

I've bought some guns from these guys, and they show Sako as one of their lines:

Bullet Trap, Inc.
2608 Ave K.
Plano, TX 75074
(972) 881-0372

http://www.bullettrapinc.com/

Ray's lists them as well, and they have a new location in North Dallas:

Ray's Sporting Goods & Hardware
730 Singleton Blvd.
Dallas, TX 75212

Phone: 214.747.7916

E-mail: rayssportinggoods@comcast.net


D-Ray's Sporting Goods
6041 Forest Ln.
Dallas, TX 75230

Phone: 972.385.3006

My Sako Safari .375 H&H went with me to Africa for Buffalo and Leopard as wel as plainsgame. The rifle functioned flawlessly and is as accurate as a big bore can be. I never for one moment doubted it's function or ability. This was becasue before going I shot a minimum of 60 rounds a week through it for nearly three months! Tried and true, those that know shoot Sako! Believe it.

quote:

t strikes me that you're expressing a personal opinion formed not by personal experience but by hearsay as fact.......which (with all due respect) is somewhat ridiculous.

Steve,

I don't have a clue who you are but for your information I have been shooting, loading and hunting for almost fifty five years. Thats no doubt twice as long as you have. I have my opinion and I have the facts and I have presented the facts on CRF. Don't use CRF if you don't want to.

How did your Weatherby make out by the way when you short stroked it and then brought the bolt back and fed another? Really give it a hard push on the second round. That's a jam.

It's probable that those who still promote push feed rifles for dangerous game are the ones that don't have the "experiance" by definiton.

Here is an article that calls the Sako 75 Safari a CRF which is something that I mentioned but nobody has commented on yet. Either it is CRF or it is not. If that extractor will control a round all the way no matter how the bolt is worked then it's CRF and good for them.

"Sako's 75 action, introduced in 1997, has been modified for the new Safari model and offers controlled-round feeding and a drop-magazine with five-round capacity."

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/long_guns/king_sako/

Your shit is soooooo tired....

Savage 99

You'll find a little of my experience on my website. I'd say I've a reasonable amount of experience of hunting Dangerous (African) Game -probably more than the average hunter here. That statement doesn't qualify me as an expert on anything but it does qualify me to express my personal opinion based on my personal experiences. - Note the word personal.

I don't short stroke my rifle & I've never had a jam other than at the range when I was just playing around.
I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with CRF just that there's nothing wrong with PF either. They both do the job right if handled correctly and neither rifle will do the job if handled incorrectly.......

Savage99 mentions the Sako as a control feed. I noticed that comment on the Sako website as well, but I took it to be in reference to the Custom Shop Sako 75 Deluxe 416 Rem Mag only. Maybe I'm wrong.

So what's the answer? Are all Sako 75s push-feed except the custom 416, or are they all CRF?

Mark Sullivan doesn't use CRF.



Just thought I'd throw a little fuel on the fire!

First let me say I don't have knowledge of which system [push feed or CRF] is best or have a preference. I don't think many PHs have a favorite either. I have seen more Phs with push feed 458 Model 70s than anything else. Next most popular was a BRNO with the backward safety [yikes] and third was Remington model 700s. On the Sako issue go for it. They shoot and are dependable. Yes they had issues with guns blowing up [Finnfires] and hadled it poorly. They have a recall number that will quickly tell you if your gun has a potential problem. I don't like the way it was handled but in this age of liability suits why tee one up for a lawyer.

Savage99,

Just for the record(again), the guide on Admiralty short-stroked the action......not an action malfunction........remember the post on the BGH forum?????

Joe