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Mac makes a very valid point. I have hunted with a number of PHs in different countries who knew very little about, and had virtually no experience with, hunting Elephant. In one case I took my PH to a National Park and got him closer to elephant than he had ever been in his life. He was duly impressed. In another case my PH would ask me every time we spotted Ele what I judged the ivory weight and length to be. On neither of these safaris was I hunting ele, but they were areas where ele were on license and were hunted. I think many folks who have limited africa safari experience, simply assume that a PH knows all about all available species. This is blatantly untrue and not unlike the few time african hunter who may have a dozen species to his bag and believes that qualifies him as an expert on all things african. Any person who travels for safari and pays lots of U.S. dollars to do so, owes it to him/herself to practice due diligence on outfitter and PH selection with specific regard to the game animals sought and on quota. All maybe created equal, but education, training and experience define who we are. I know Ivan, Buzz and Johan and have spoken with each more than a few times. I have not hunted any of my ele with them, although Ivan and I were very close to doing so in early 2011. All my ele PHs have been trained and experienced ele professionals, with the exception of my first in 1998 who had little ele experience but with whom I had hunted previously and trusted beyond a doubt. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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Wow  Things can go BAD real fast!!! | |||
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You are right Mac and so is MJines. I just like to state my opinion and at the same time not to get everyone riled up. Love ele hunting, and PH's I hunted with were excellent and very experienced guys and just as good as the three you mentioned. That's all. After all, it's just good topic. Love this forum BTW... " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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I haven't had the opportunity to read Ivan's article just yet, but will, and Jines, I most certainly DID NOT vote for the JOKER IN CHIEF we currently find ourselves with. My comments on the subject of getting close, which I've stated previously, even posting a few videos on the subject is exactly reflected in the highlighted statement above and simply is my own opinion, nothing more or less. I enjoy pretty much all hunting, but for me, I like elephant and buffalo hunting specifically for the challenge of getting close and the adrenalin rush it brings; elephant more so than buffalo however. I've shot elephant and buffalo at long range as well and I just don't enjoy it as much as the close encounters. That goes for the stalks where you don't shoot just as much as those where you do. Simply stated, this is a much different experience:  than this:  and this:  Working your way into position in this manner is something I find exciting,  much more so than simply spotting your quarry from the truck, getting out, and clobbering it at range without putting in the hard miles. | |||
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I wondered who this happened to. I was there hunting in Charara with Warren Thorne when I heard about this happening glad it was not anymore serious, I was real careful around ele after this, taking my tuskless a couple days later. cranky bitches Buzz was shooting his 416 rem at the time wasn't he? | |||
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Well, after all Mike - you are an ambulance chaser!!  | |||
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I enjoyed the article, maybe because I agree that up close makes for a much more intimate experience. Big part of why I enjoy the open sighted double rifle so much. This year it took until day 11, before a trigger was pulled, and I got a lot more out of the hunt as turned out than if it had happened day 1. Many approaches each day, Loved them all! | |||
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I haven't read the article, but will go buy the magazine so I can. I agree with those who prefer to hunt close. I find no challenge or joy in shooting DG at anything but close range. Close range can be variable, imo, depending on terrain and cover. But 10 or 12 yds is close regardless. Also, I find it easier to brain an elephant with some space, easier than doing it very close. Perhaps because I prefer the approach to continue until the elephant turns to you, and you have that moment to kill it, before it decides to flee or fight. The elephant, and importantly, it's head, either isn't stationary or if it is, it is for the briefest moment. Shooting from 15yds or 20yds or greater, the elephant is usually stationary. FWIW, I have shot elephants from about 35yds to 7yds. 35yds on the second to last day of one safari when we couldn't get closer because of a cow herd in the way, and as the sun was dropping and we were loosing our light. 7yds twice, both charging. It is easier to close to bulls than tuskless cows. Most cows I have shot have been between 12 and 15yds, bulls generally but not always closer. An elephant at 50yds is fun to watch, at 20yds it is exciting to watch, at 15 it is absolutely thrilling. I get a lot of satisfaction getting close to elephants and, upon deciding that elephant isn't the right elephant, walking away without the elephant or elephants ever knowing you could have spit on them. When I first started elephant hunting every step inside of 20 yds or so required a conscious effort. Now it is every step inside of 15yds or so, depending on terrain and cover. Good fun, and great satisfaction watching the rear legs collapse and feeling the ground tremble when you get the brain shot just right and the ele drops in the sphinx position and remains taller than you. JPK  Free 500grains | |||
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How close is too close? Perfectly reasonable questions like this often have the inadvertent – and sometimes hilarious – effect of being an AR community Rorschach test. There are the measured, insightful, and sober opinions from the usual quarters (e.g., Mike, Todd, Mac); but then you have those contributors who consistently – and I suspect accidentally – reveal some deep-seated, psychological issues in their exhaustively expressed petty hatreds and personal fears (e.g., 505 Gibbs and Trax). This latter group seems incapable of expressing an opinion without making it both insulting and ad hominem, relying upon a writing style that betrays both insecurity and not a small amount of self-loathing. It's a shame that thought provoking discussions like this one are so often sullied by troubled members who appear incapable of civil discourse. In answer to Mike's question, obviously this is a subject that is very much a matter of personal choice. That said, I feel that by pushing the limits on how far away you shoot dangerous game, you eliminate what I believe should be an intrinsic element of the experience: Risk. Risk is a part of the tradition and history of safari hunting and one of the reasons that I've chosen to hunt dangerous game with a double rifle rather than a scoped bolt-action. By obligating myself to getting closer to a cape buffalo or elephant, I reduce the number of trophy opportunities and incur a measure of risk that both serve as partial payment for the privilege of hunting dangerous game. When I hunt elephant later this year with Buzz, it will be in large part due to his expertise, experience, and preparedness to get me very close to my trophy. That, to me, is what dangerous game hunting is all about. Kim Merkel Double .470 NE Whitworth Express .375 H&H Griffin & Howe .275 Rigby Winchester M70 (pre-64) .30-06 & .270 "Cogito ergo venor" René Descartes on African Safari | |||
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Great post JPK. I agree that it is possible to get too close, and lose perspective. I walked up behind one bull in the relative open, and when he spun around, he was probably 7-8 yards away. With his head held high, and no time to get set, it was a difficult shot. On a previous hunt, I wasn't quite as close, and instead of turning the bull glanced back and ran, fortunately giving me a running side brain shot. You just never know, but 15-20 yards feels about right for a bull, maybe a little more range for a tuskless in some situations such as when in a herd - unless hunting in the early season jesse then often the shooting is much closer (like, the other side of the bush!). On first shots, I've ranged probably 5 to 40 yards on elephant. 5 yards was a cow charge and obviously too close, and 40 yards too far for a brain shot with open sights. | |||
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