quote:

I must tell you that I think you will be disappointed with the .375 at 200-plus yards. I certainly have been.

This is not my experience in anyway, shape or form with the .375. I use it for elk, I've killed several elk over 300 yards and one at nearly 450 yards with the old .375. I use it on hogs, I've even used it hunt aoudad.

It is every bit the long range rifle that a .338 is with the right loads.

How many of the respondents here have actually used their .416's for a proper plains game safari?

I have seen lots of guys taking over a single .375 for a safari, but rarely if EVER seen anyone claiming they are taking a single .416 on a safari, without a second rifle in a smaller plains game calibre.

Might actually answer the question.

My own actual experience:
- safari with a single .30-06 (plains game hunt only);
- safari with a single .375 (two hunts, one plains game, and one mixed with buff);
- safaris with a .450 and a 9.3mm - but borrowed an 8x68S for one hunt (for DG plus plains game).
Other DG hunts (not Africa)
- 9.3x74R for everything (similar to a .375);
- .450, .375, .308 for mixed buff and everything else - several hunts.

Notes from Phil Shoemaker on the 416Rem and Africa:

"A month later I accompanied my friend Pat Acciavatti on safari to Zimbabwe and Mozambique. He brought a .338 Winchester Magnum, and I took the new .416. As it turned out Pat liked the .416 so well we both used it for everything. Cape buffalo, kudu, sable, crocodile, leopard, no matter what the game or the range, a single, well-placed X-Bullet was all that was required. The .416 had the energy required to pile up a Cape buffalo at 50 feet, the accuracy to brain shoot a crocodile at 150 yards and the trajectory to hit impala at 250 yards. Pat even used it to snipe a few baboons at over 300 yards for use as leopard bait. In all, 33 animals fell to the .416 in 16 days. Doug Kok, our PH, was impressed with both the rifle and the bullets. In talking to other PHs and local hunters, I discovered the .416 Remington Magnum and Barnes X-Bullets had sterling reputations in Zimbabwe and Mozambique." - Phil Shoemaker

http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/article.cfm?tocid=153&magid=15

GVA

Mims,
I too miss that short round fellow, he was a good friend, I remember mostly how much fun we had harrassing D"Arcy Echols about his new plastic stock rifles! we enjoyed that.

But make no mistake, we both knew that D'Arcy was/is the ultimate gunsmit!~

The combo of the 338 win mag and the 416 rem mag will handle any big game on this earth.The 416 Rem mag can handle bullets from 300 gr to 410 gr.It can handle from Elephant to larger Plains game.I have even deer hunted withit.Barnes stopped making my flat shooting bullet the 325 gr x bullet.I got 1" groups and 2800 fps with it.I have to use only one powder reloader 15 for all bullets.I have 6 416 rem mags.I have 3 Remington model 700s and 3 winmchester Model 70s.I dont think the recoil is any worse than any 375 OI have ever shot.My big game rifle model 700 only weigh 8.5 ponds with the scope light to tote and dont kick.I have 12 338 win mags and most are rugers except one Model 70 stainless.I love the tang safety of the opld Ruger model 77.I am going to make a Ruger model 77 old model 416 ruger next year when its a standard caliber.I love my 338s and 416s.I have about 8000 pcs of 416 rem mahg brass and about 3000 338 win mag cases.i have a good stock of bullets for both.I narrowed my calibers to 338 win mag ,338-378 weatherby for long range and the 416 rem mahg for stuff that bites.I trust the 416 rem mag with my life and shoot it alot with rreduced and full loads.I have about got it down on the point shoot with my rifles.I dont think I will find a better combo than these .I added the 338-378 weatherby for game out to way further ranges.i want to try the 416 on moose way out to 500 yards with the right bullets.Its alot more accurate than you think .So is the 338 win mag and the 338-378 Weatherby.I really thined out my rifles and made life alot simpler.I will stick to the 416 and 338 calibers from now on.

I was just saying to someone that the 338 win mag and 416 rem might be an interesting combo. You certainly sound like you are setup well and loving that combo. I've always thought it curious though to have many multiples of the same caliber. It bothers me to have 2 of something...hence my brand new project of turning a classic stainless model 70 375 into a stainless 416 Rem...don't need two 375's.

That 338-378 is a whole other discussion. Doesn't seem to be answering any questions I have ballistically, practically or in any other sense. I guess I'm still having fun seeing how close I can get to game.

Gentlemen, there are any number of pairs that are fine combinations for hunting in Africa. However, the idea of an "ALL ROUNDER" is that one rifle/caliber combination be used for everything. This must not only be capable of doing the job from one end to the other, but be legal for all game as well, or it is not an "ALL AROUNDER". The 338/378 Wby is a fine example of what not to buy for an all arounder because it is not legal for anything bigger than a lion, in most places, not legal for anything above a Leopard in others. The 375H&H is not only legal,for everything, but if used properly, can take any animal on the face of the Earth. Is it the best choice, for the largest, and meanest? NO! Is it perfect for the other end, at long range? NO!, but is it capable/legal for use on both ends? Hell yes it is! I've killed Caribou at over 300 yds, with a 375 H&H, with ease, and I've killed Cape Buffalo, and large Hippo with one shot kills with it, both at short and moderately long range. Would it be my choice, if I had one, of a one rifle, for large dangerous game? NO! Would it be my choice for a sheep rifle? NO! However if you know your rifle it will take care of either persuit, quite handily!

Agreed Mac. That is why the 375 is my favorite caliber. If you live in Alaska and like to hunt in Africa you tend to flow that direction.

I do want to try the 416 but I don't think it will replace the 375 as the best overall medium caliber. Many people do not even shoot the 375 all that well. I've met many hunters and shooters who think the 375 is terrifying and only suitable for T-rex. I've got friends that refuse to shoot any of my guns that are bigger than 375.

Just thinking about what I have seen PHs carrying. Among PHs the .416 is probably the most likely calibre and usually the .416 Remington (from my own personal experience only).

Probably price of the factory rifles has some influence.

Also the fact a PH may carry one would have no influence on whether it is an "all round" cartridge.

I see alot of over lap with the 338 win mag and the 375 H&H.The gap widens alot when you have a 338 win mag and a 416 rem mag.I have shot my 416s over 2000 times.I have shot some awesome groups with it.I like three bullets the 410 gr woodleigh,the 325 gr barnes x bullet and the 350 gr speer mag tip.I wisah barnes still made the 325 gr.Its very flat shooting at 2800 fps.I was amazed at the 200 yard groups I shot with the 410 gr woodleigh bullets.I finally got a stainless Remington model 700 in 416 rem mag.I like that rifle alot.Its lighter than my model 70 Winchesters which I like alot too.I do need a fiberglass stock for my Winchester model 70s.I still want to make a stainless model 70 in 416 rem mag or a 416 Ruger .I think the 416 Ruger will do pretty good also.I have 8,000 pcs of 416 rem mag brass so I try to stick to it.I do like the nickle brass in the 416 rem mag.I wish I had bought 10 cases of it.I just get a few kegs of reloader 15 and my dillion 550 and reload the heck out of my 416 rem mag.

quote:

Originally posted by Kensco:
You will not live long enough to see the .416 supplant the .375H&H. So tweak the numbers and contemplate your navel all you want. It ain't gonna happen.

I absolutely agree 100%!

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

With the 330-grain GSC HV at faster velocity, a .416 would put the .375 H&H to shame.

have you seen the performance of the 375 with the 200gr GSC bullets at 3200f/sec it shoots like a 300win mag. i dont think you will put it to shame. that is not the point the 375 was build for a 300gr bullet and 416 for 410gr . Is a Chevie with a Ford enjine still a Chevie?

If your ammo is lost in transit where will you find your load and where will you find 416 ammo? the 375 ammo i will buy at any gun shop in africa. Luckely there is always photo shops to buy a camera or you can rent the ph gun.

the best thing in the world is that everybody has different taste otherwise we would all be drinking the same thing and sleeping with the same woman.

it doesn't mater if its 100gr or 700gr bullets if it hits the right place it kills.

For what its worth, here are my 2c.
I love the 375 (H&H).I used it on my first safari (DG first, then plains game). Lion and buffalo fell with no problems, and when I wanted to use my 270 for plains game, Lou Hallamore said "you are shooting well, why switch? I didnt, and it performed equally well on 11 more, from duiker to eland.
Much water has passed down the zambezi since and I now have acquired 2 416's (Rem & Rigby)a beautiful 404, a Lott, and 2 505's; all of which I have shot extensively (except the 416 Rem)
On my last elephant safari I took the 505 & the battered old and re-barreled 375. I carried the 375 loaded with 350 gr solids @ 2400fps, the gunbearer carried the 505, until the trail got hot; then we switched; I shot the elly with the 505, used the 375 (with 260 gr accubonds) for gemsbok, etc. BUT if something had happened to the 505 ammo, I am sure the 375 would have done as well.
For a single rifle safari,I find that I dont hit as well with my Rigby at longer ranges as with my 375. But my 404 with 300 gr Hawk bullets does really very well even at long ranges. (Both the rigby and Jeffrey are custom rifles,so both fit me fine etc
I think a large part of which caliber is psychological; if you shoot your 375 well, have hunted with it extensively, use it. Ditto for the 416, 404 etc. For me its 375+505 or 404 alone.

Indlovu

How did the 260 Accubonds do and do you prefer them to 260 Partitions.

Thanks

For what it worth(very little I would think), On a hunt in the selous I took a 416 Rem Mag, loaded with 350 grain Swift A Frames and a 470 NE loaded with 500 grain Woodleigh's.

The 470 as well as the 416 did an excellent on buff'

On plains game out to 250 yds the 416 did an excellent job. The reason I took the 416 was even though we were hunting plains game, there was always the chance of crossing something dangerous with a bad attitude.

I have stated this on other posts, when hunting plains game, you must always be ready to deal with the nastiest critter in the neighborhood.

On a plains game hunt in SA I used a 300 Win Mag, but if were limited to one African Rifle, the 416 Rem Mag (or Rigby) would be an excellent choice. The use of 350 or 400 grain bullets would depend on the primary target.

I only shot a gemsbok and a baboon; complete exit on the baboon. The gemsbok was quartering away @ 100 yds or so. Bullet entered behind the last rib, broke offside shoulder, and lodged under the skin. I would guess > 90% wound retention, but I did not weigh it. perfect mushroom.
However, 180 gr accubond @3300 fps from 30-378 blew up on an elk-x3! Guess its a good bullet at < 3000 fps.
I prefer partitions for plains game, I seem to get more instantaneous kills. but the accubonds are more acurate in my 375

quote:

Originally posted by Oldcoyote:
Indlovu

How did the 260 Accubonds do and do you prefer them to 260 Partitions.

Thanks

The 416 calibers make it alot easier to use just one rifle if you have to do so.I think that a 325 gr boattail bonded bullet in the 416 at 2800 fps would be a great plains game bullet.I really like 410 gr woodleigh soft points for the tough stuff.I like barnes 400 gr monolithic bullets for wacking the heck out of big bones animals that will flatten you if you dont kill them.I think the 400 gr swift and nosler bullets are awesome in the 416s also.I like the 416 rem mag best of all except I like tang safety rifles better than model 70 safety rifles.There are no 416s with a tang safety so I have to build a 416 ruger on an old model Ruger 77.Thenyou can shoot it like a fine double barrel the trigger and safety at the same time.I have done this with my 338 old model rugers plenty of times.I hope that it turns out a nice rifle.I am thinking about putting a removable break for practice and a flash light attachment for getting out of the brush when your tracking something that bites.A lazer might also be useful.I almost had this rifle inmy stainless Remington model 700 but without my favorire tang safety.I hope Ruger brings out the 416 Ruger this coming year.I think it might do alright just have to see.

Any one of the .40's would make an excellent DG rifle for a client particularly if set up for that purpose with good iron sights. As pointed out, none of them is going to supplant the 375HH because the .40's a just a bit much for the average guy to use on every thing.

Most gun cases are two gun cases, and there is no reason not to take two rifles and many reasons to take two! A 416 or 404 with a 9.3 or 375 is about a perfect set up as has been pointed out for a mixed bag hunt. For elephant only, I took a 404 Howell with iron sights which fits me well, and a 425 Express with 2.5x scope as a back up. This is a good combination and I really would think hard about a Mauser in 425 Express or 416 Taylor if I were looking for a .40cal. Kudude