Does Marc Watts still own some of the California Rigby?

Bwana Mojo. Bwana One.
Rigby One. Rigby Two.

"John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers), Inc., a California corporation."

vs.

"John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers), Ltd., a London Limited."

Somebody's gotta be pissing.
Somebody is pissing on California.

Is anyone pissed about this in California?
As in:
"Don't piss down my back and tell me it is raining."

As has already been said. "May be legal, but I prefer ethical over legal" anyday of the week.

slightly off topic.

Was the original Rigby in the rarified atmosphere of H&H and Purdey or more in the Westley Richards area.

Rigby USA is legal, the pimped-up imposter products produced are unethical toward the authentic Rigby heritage of fine British guns.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
One could argue Business ethics all day and night,just like some folks do about what method or distance all manner of game is "shot" or "hunted" at.
What they have done is completely legal, no theft involved,no dishonesty involved.
A Californication Rigby was never my style, and IF the new setup brings back some British taste to the product, thats a good thing.
If anyone dont like what,how or why as to what they will produce, simple, dont buy one!

other worldly examples;

# Rolls Royce is owned by BMW,
# Bentley owned by VW. the RR,Bentley,BMW,VW Story.
# Jaguar is owned by Ford.
# Aston Martin after 20yrs being owned by Ford, belongs now to ProDrive.
# Ferrari is under main control of the Fiat Group.
# Harrods of London is owned by you know who....& some will be happy to know they continue to sell fur despite protests.
1990: A Harrods shop opens onboard the Queen Mary in Long Beach, which was then owned by the Walt Disney Company... ()
# THe famous Beatles music rights were purchased by Michael Jackson.

Some folks may need to put emotions & sentimentality aside and get a grip of global business practices & dynamics.
Its an dog eat dog corporate world out there, and simply wishing&hoping for ethical ideals often aint enough to survive that environment.
Its up to you to remain aware and look after your own interests,be it an Co. name,Logo,Emblem-intellectual property.
Most important thing now is; Build a good rifle & look after the customer.

after reading your above post make up your mind which side you are on

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
They applied for the name and were granted it, if anyone dont like it, take it up with the regulating authority that allows many such legal transactions on regular basis.
Its a bit like lost property, If people dont care to claim it in an certain amount of time,it can become legally available to someone else through bonafied purchase.
In the case of Corporate registration or Itellectual property, you loose it through basic ignorance or lazyness to maintain ownership.
If I let my company name go, I know that someone can legally take it for themselves after a certain period, so I would have no cause to whine if I failed to maintain my interests, they give you more than fair notice/warning, if one decides not to act and reregister their interest,..tough and fool you!
You can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink.

considering your above post are you playing double agent here?

If you read my posts, its clear that I do not dissapprove of someone registering the unclaimed UK Rigby Co. in an attempt to create a more authentic traditional product...and im my post just before yours, I clearly state that I feel Ca.Rigby creations are unethical toward the authentic Rigby gun making heritage&tradition.

Ethical can mean different things to different people.
ie; some in their minds believe it unethical that someone else now legally owns UK Rigby,
..others believe that what an legal Rigby-USA did by restamping and overpricing a cheaper imposter underfeatured outsourced action, is unethical to the authentic character & heritage of Rigby and spirit of fine british gun making.
Each of us are free to choose our values and between an Californication Pimped Merkelby,... or the more traditional(new or orig.)UK Rigby creations.
Now I wonder, If someone had gone to the trouble of succesfully reproducing an quality copy of the M70 pre64, and somehow found"M70" unclaimed & unregistered, would folk applaude or condemn them for legally registering and selling their authentic reproduction under such an name?
If any of the current US re-producers of M98 actions, found the "M98" unclaimed&unregistered and legally claimed it for themselves to sell their product under, would they be applauded or condemned?
When "John Rigby & Co(Gunmakers)LTD" is found lingering,neglected and collecting dust on the UK corporate register, its clear there was no existing expressed interest and legally-fairly up for grabs,... no safes were cracked, no bribes offered and no deception involved in the now UK registered interest in John Rigby & Co LTD.
....and from what I am beginning to soundly gather its gong to be an far more authentic & traditional product,.. Bravo!!

Now I just have to decide If I can live with the moral dilema of an an exquisit BMW V12 that has an RR body & emblem attached to it..... ><

Grumulkin...Regarding that under $35,000.00 double rifle...Butch Searcy might be able to help.

I'm a bit late to the Accurate Reloading discussion, but I know a bit about the whole "Rigby thing" going back to when I testified in federal bankruptcy court during "California Rigby's" trial.

I filed a report on this latest development with the "London Rigby" with NRA on their www.americanhunter.org website which can be viewed at:

http://www.americanhunter.org/...st.aspx?id=21&cid=46

This situation is a lot worse than meets the eye. Rigby is a great name and it deserves to be resurrected in England, with English gunmakers. I can't say that Mark Neal, the man behind the upstart "London Rigby" is going about this in the very best way, but at least his heart is in the right place-- trying to restore the Rigby legacy that has been dragged through the Paso Robles mud.

The key lies in Texas with a man named Niel Gibson who originally bought John Rigby & Co. (Gumakers) Ltd. from Paul Roberts of J. Roberts & Sons, London, who had owned "the real Rigby" from 1984 to 1997 when he sold it to Gibson. Here's the cincher-- Gibson still owns all the original Rigby sales books dating to 1735. Eveery sales order, every serial number, the entire records. In my opinion, whoever owns the Rigby record books owns the heart and soul of Rigby.

As an interesting digression, "California Rigby" posts on the www.johnrigdyandco.com website a list of Rigby's Royal Warrants. This is misleading because the Royal Warrants were rescinded by the Crown when Roberts owned Rigby. He startd a company called Rigby Safaris Ltd., a booking agency, and it caused such a flap with the anti's that the Crown withdrew the Warrants. It would be a moot point now anyway-- a non-British firm cannot own Royal Warrants.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RIP:
Does Marc Watts still own some of the California Rigby?

Bwana Mojo. Bwana One.
Rigby One. Rigby Two.


He was listed as a creditor when "California Rigby" filed for bankruptcy several years ago (from which they've emerged). So was Craig Boddington and Craig Boddington's mother.

quote:

http://www.americanhunter.org/...st.aspx?id=21&cid=46

Not hard to see where you come down on this Cameron.

I wonder if Boddington ever got paid for those puff pieces on CalRigby he churned out 10 years ago?

Hello Cameron Hopkins:
Your post helps with better understanding the situation.
This could indeed be very messy.

BTW,
Are you the .425 Express guy?
Is Walt Sherman still kicking?

Most unfortunately we are having some problems with our web server and are unable to update our web site as quickly as we would like.
To showcase the talents of our gunmakers. These are the work of David Eden. Over 140 years separates some of the guns, sights and accessories in these pictures from the others. .451 Rigby Match rifles and Field models will be available again from us on a very limited basis. POA.

Are there people out there who really give a damn about Royal Warrants? Maybe when the sun never set on the British Empire and men of substance were upon the land they actually knew and employed fine firearms. I submit that these times exist only in literature.

Why would one care about ROYAL WARRANTS from a country whose olympic shooting team must travel abroad to practice?

I would love to own a good double but feel it should be chosen based own technical superiority, quality components, and artistic excellence. IMO having a royal warrant today would be the equivalent of an endorsement from Nancy Pelosi. Please tell me that people don't choose a double based on warrants, smoke and mirrors, and BS.

quote:

Originally posted by Adrian Parham:
Are there people out there who really give a damn about Royal Warrants? Maybe when the sun never set on the British Empire and men of substance were upon the land they actually knew and employed fine firearms. I submit that these times exist only in literature.

Why would one care about ROYAL WARRANTS from a country whose olympic shooting team must travel abroad to practice?

I would love to own a good double but feel it should be chosen based own technical superiority, quality components, and artistic excellence. IMO having a royal warrant today would be the equivalent of an endorsement from Nancy Pelosi. Please tell me that people don't choose a double based on warrants, smoke and mirrors, and BS.

Adrian,

I have to say I'm not a royalist in any way but are there people out there who care about things like Royal Warrants?....... Yeah, sure there are and there's no doubt the holding of a Royal Warrant (rightly or wrongly) lends a brand a certain credence and a high degree of respect from an awful lot of people....... I don't just mean Brits, I mean people all over the world. If that were not the case, then places such as Windsor Castle and Buck House wouldn't have many thousands of visitors willing to pay to see them every year. The fact that a company holds a Royal Warrant is worth a great deal of money to them. Admittedly a lot of that is nothing but snobbery but nevertheless, from a purely commercial point of view, that snobbery can be worth a fortune in additional business.

All that said, neither company actually holds any Royal Warrants and whether some people might consider it 'bad form' for a company to display them even for historical interest, I wouldn't know.

I haven't read all the posts. If this is a stupid question that has already been answered, I apologize in advance.

What is a royal warrant?

quote:

royal warrant

I had to google it... http://www.royalwarrant.org/

"Rigby's: http://www.johnrigbyandco.com/.../royal_warrants.html

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

What is a royal warrant?

Something the Weatherby custom shop does not have

Is that true the Olympic team cannot practice in the UK?? I hope not.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
there is legal and then there is ethical, and as far as i am concerned ethical thievery is still thievery.

I entirely agree.

Somebody buys the rights to the name (which is all CA Rigby did) of a company legendary for quality, badges grossly substandard products with it, and sells them for all $$$$ that the name alone will support. Legal? Sure, but a fraud nonetheless - and unethical as hell in my view.

Rigby, London obtained their name the right way. They applied to Companies House to register it. It hadn't been registered there in years. They've got a tall order. If they can make a product good enough to remove the tarnish from a once great name, more power to 'em.
----------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I've been pondering this issue a bit and I seem to remember reading quite a lot about different "names" and their history from way back which seems to indicate that this is not a new thing......?

The small world we live in now just makes it possible for more of us to know the facts and who reallly is who. It will be interesting to see how the historains of the future record this in say 100 years time

quote:

Originally posted by Leopardtrack:
Is that true the Olympic team cannot practice in the UK?? I hope not.

leopardtrack,

The UK olympic team can and does train in the UK for all Shotgun and rifle disciplines, as well as training abroad for acclimatisation purposes. In fact Richard Faulds IIRC practices every day on his own Double Trap range in his garden!! (according to an article I read a few years back after he wone his olympic gold medal).

The UK olympic pistol shooting team is not allowed to practice in the UK as the ownership of Pistols is prohibited here. They train abroad on a regular basis.



With regard to the subject of the thread.

I'm actually not that interested in the name on the action of any gun I shoot . My cabinet contains Rizzini's worth £200 and English guns worth considerably more. The only thing that is a concern to me when buying is two fold.

Firstly does the gun do what I want it to do and operate in a way that is both reliable and comfortable to use according to my shooting style.

Secondly is the price tag associated with the gun a reflection of the workmanship and quality of materials that went into its manufacture. If the answer to that is yes and my bank manager agrees to my latest whim then I'm happy to proceed with purchase.

I'll be waiting to see what comes off of the bench from the New London guys but from what I can see so far it looks promising.

Rgds
FB

BTW,
Are you the .425 Express guy?
Is Walt Sherman still kicking?[/QUOTE]

One and the same. I don't know about Walt as I haven't communicated with him in a long time. You have an incredible memory to remember that he built one of the first prototype rifles.

Hello Cameron!

Glad to see you here, it's been a long time since we have chatted.

Walt Bodie

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Hello Cameron!

Glad to see you here, it's been a long time since we have chatted.

Walt Bodie

Walt, my word.... you can escape most anything except your past! E-mail me as I don't know who to e-mail on the forum. Cameron