When an animal falls with the entrance side up I know exactly where the bullet hit right away. Whereas when it falls exit side up, especially the larger ones, it takes time to turn the animal, untangle the legs, the PH speculates, the suspense builds, and all of this creates a more vivid memory. It is also more dramatic walking up to an animal with a big wound and lots of blood. Hence, I recall the ones that fall this way more then the ones that fall entry side up.

It may also depend on whether you are hunting in the southern or northern hemisphere, as animals tend to fall towards the equator. The closer one is, the less the effect to the point that when hunting along the equator there is no tangible difference to the extent that some animals fail to fall over at all. I try to keep in mind where it is at all times, and only take perfect broadside shots with the animal positioned between the equator and me, so that it falls exit side down, as this makes posing for pictures much easier and less messy.

Some of these responses have come pretty close, but unfortunately all fall short. The direction of fall of a shot and moribund or deceased big game animal depends upon the global location of the animal and both the localized and global Coriolis Effects as well as weak gravitational force vacuum vector variations at the sub-atomic level.

To understand why an animal shot broadside in Africa generally falls exit side up, one must first understand the localized, as well as the planetary, heat engines at work.

In the firearm, heat from burning nitrocellulose/nitroglycerine based gun powder creates the motion of the bullet. This is the localized heat engine. The bullet of course moves forward linearly in a parabolic trajectory, while at the same time it spins with enormous rotational velocity, creating a projectile-induced convection cell and localized Coriolis Effect. This is sometimes known and misunderstood as "cavitation."

On the planetary level, in sub-Saharan Africa, heat from the sun warms the Earth around the equator to a much greater degree than it does at either pole. Naturally, this is because the sun burns down directly on the equator but only obliquely on the poles.

This creates the motion of the Earth's atmosphere - heat from the sun at the equator evaporates sea water and causes dust devils, which rise from the oceans and deserts around the equator and transfer heat upward and toward the poles. Cold air then is pushed down in the temperate zones and is vacuumed downward toward the equator. This creates gigantic, heat transferring, global atmospheric convection cells.

Of course, that is only part of the equation. One must also factor in the rotation of the Earth. This naturally pushes the air and sky and all Earthly creatures around, and causes what we term the Coriolis Effect. The planetary rotationally induced Coriolis Effect makes atmospheric convection cells curve to the right in the Northern Hemisphere and to the left in the Southern Hemisphere and is generally responsible for what we call but usually cannot predict as "weather."

Little is understood about the next factor, which is the effect of the weak gravitational force on Brownian coagulation of small particles. But the basic principles at least are well known and generally agreed upon, except by a few stubborn, but unfortunately somewhat influential string theorists. Yet despite the general acceptance of these principles, they do require a somewhat dense explication, which I will endeavor to obfuscate.

As we have seen, when an animal is shot, let us say, in Botswana, in the Southern Hemisphere, the localized heat engine, i.e., the firearm, creates a projectile-induced convection cell and localized Coriolis Effect. This effect somehow (see above) permanently negates the weak gravitational force which otherwise works at the sub-atomic level to keep animals on their feet. Brownian coagulation of blood and tissue particles then creates a vacuum in the wound channel, about which more later.

Now, however, that introducing direction of fall into the equation makes the inquiry truly interesting and complex - and to elucidate that is problematic for the uninformed. Hence the floundering explanations of this factor in all of the above posts on this thread. Let me be perfectly clear and concise on this question: Direction of fall depends upon this factor above all others.

The Earth's rotation, below the equator, causes the air to speed along northeastwardly with the earth's surface at approximately 1,000 miles per hour. Atomospheric convection cells curve to the left in our posited nation of location, Botswana, and the global Coriolis Effect thereby enhances and strengthens the vacuum in the stricken animal's wound channel and gives it powerful force vectors.

The global Coriolis Effect, the Brownian coagulation induced vacuum, the Botswanan atmospheric convection cells (which are, of course, enormously affected by the humid conditions of the Okavango Delta) and the causationally proximate, firearm and projectile induced negative sub-atomic weak gravitation, combine synergistically and logarithmically to cause these by now immensely powerful, but extremely localized, wound channel force vectors to drag the stricken animal down on its entry wound side, which may be leftward or rightward, but is almost always either northeastward or southwestward.

Those with a sound background in physics will of course realize immediately that all of this is reversed in the Northern Hemisphere.

I could be wrong, but I doubt it, since this is precisely how ALF explained it to me.

mrlexma:
A rather sophomoric statment of the obvious, don't you think?

quote:

Originally posted by TWL:
mrlexma:
A rather sophomoric statment of the obvious, don't you think?

My apologies. I agree that I dumbed it down from ALF's original version, and perhaps too much.

I fear that in its full mathematical force, with all of the requisite differential equations, it would take up far too much band width.

I would not want to presume on Saeed's forbearance to that extent.

Besides, it would entail far more than a mere lay audience could possibly comprehend.

quote:

Originally posted by Andrew McLaren:
Some more brilliant responses. The lack of serious comment on my "skin streach and snap-back" theory made me realize that something may be amiss.

If, and only if, there really is any truth in the reported observation that animals with a broadside bangflop shot fall with exit side up, then there MUST be an explanation for the phenomenon. I have proposed one “explanationâ€. Here is another one for consideration and comment.

First some background: We have all debated what is a “banflopâ€, and we all know that it is a shot where an animal dies in it’s tracks. What is required to get the “bangflopâ€? A fast enough expanding bullet of adequate caliber seems to be required to get a true bangflop to happen. IMHO a bangflop is more likely if a bullet with easily disintegrating front section, i.e. old Nostler Partitions and H-mantle are used. What causes the “instantaneous†death of the animal shot broadside through the lungs with such a bullet? All of us know that an animal shot through the lungs with a slower 500 grain .45 will still run something like 100 or more yards before collapsing. How can a fast 80 grain Nostler Partition in .243 caliber bullet entering at the same spot cause “instant death†or a bangflop? I believe that the pain and nerve stimuli caused by the disintegration of the front section to result in a large number of very small fragments of bullet and lead to blast through the lungs simply “overloads†the central nervous system and the animal dies as a bangfolp. But the shock wave of the bullet entering the animal also cause trauma and nerve stimulation. The shockwave starts at the entry side and propagates in concentric circles from the entry point, and along the bullet path. So the nerves on the entry side are stimulated - or rather over stimulated – first, before the nerves on the exit side. This death has absolutely nothing to do with lack of oxygen to the brain as a result of internal bleeding into the lungs. It is an stimuli overload that causes death. The animal dies from over stimulation of the CNS. Now upon the instant death the disrupted nerves allows the muscles on the entry side to collapse first, at a time when the legs on the bullet exit side is still standing upright. The very small time differential is all that is required to let the legs on the bullet entry side to collapse before the legs on the bullet exit side. This results in the animal falling with the exit side up.

What value does this possible explanation have?

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

I have noticed that elephants killed with side brain shots that do not exit also fall on the entrance side. How does that affect your theory? Same with broadside shots on eles. The exception has been when the bullet breaks the off side leg then the elephant falls on the off side from the entrance. I have noticed no difference in this whether the bullet exits or not.

465H&H

I do not understand why my proposal had not been accepted.
I belive in experimetal method. And i was ready for the sacrifice too.

Pardon me, but all of you are worng. It is simply a matter of the animal attempting to apply an "ground effect" pressure bandage to the wound.

Now it is getting serious!

On a Blesbuck hunt earlier today, 25 June 2008, in the heart of the Mpumalanga Highveld, I found the following after having shot 2 Blesbucks:

1. Rangefinder reads 200m and Blesbuck ram is shot broadside with a GS Custom 130gr HV bullet fired from my .308 at 3180fps - animal found with exit side up.

2. Second, a Blesbuck ewe shot broadside at 153m per rangefinder, same rifle and bullet type, animal found exit side up again!

There must be an explanation for this to happen almost each time I shot an animal broadside with the GSC HV's - today 2 out of 2 times.

Why?

Personally I think that it is the difference between energy and momentum.
A bullet strikes with energy and penetrates with momentum.

And while momentum is actually what drives a bullet deep and kills through reaching vital organs, energy is transferred into shock.

Shock affects muscles and nerves, momentum affects vital organs and skeletal structure.

I believe that when the animal is struck that the energy that is transferred upon impact causes that side of the body to start to shut down through shock of impact.
And then by the time the damage that the momnentum has caused has had a chance to take effect the animal is considerably weaker on the entrance side.
As an animal dies on their feet they are fighting the falling all the way to the ground, and so as they are falling and fighting the falling they are collapsing first on the weaker side which places the exit or stronger side up at the last.

Energy?

Please define 'energy' in this context where it is supposed to be something different than momentum.

Simple. If you get kicked in the nuts, which side do you fold? Inwards. Same with buck. So they land exit-side up. Now the REAL question is: which side do they fall if you give them a perfect Texas heart shot? Does it depend on a) whether they were breathing in or out at the time, b) the right-hand spin on the bullet, c) alignment of sun & moon i.e. tidal influence or d) none of these - they just drop?

By the way, the falling on the exit side - does that have anything to do with the fact that we've blown one shoulder away & it's doing its best to run off?

Springtrap I do not beleive that it is momentum that shocks the dust out of their hair when a bullet hits.
momentum is what causes the bullet to continue on its path to dig deep and penetrate.
There is a certain amount of shock from the bullet that is sent through the immediate tissue which I believe helps to incapacitate the muscles and shut down nerves in that immediate area.
When a bullet hits an animal there is very often a reaction to the bullet that is not attributed to the damage it has done inside.
How big a difference is it? well it varies I am sure but I do feel that it well might be the difference that could cause an animal to weaken and fall with that side first in the end.

Really sporting animals "lean into the shot" to take the full hit for you.

By damned 308 I never thunk of it that way before,, I think that you are on to something.

bucko wrote on 25 June:

quote:

Personally I think that it is the difference between energy and momentum.
A bullet strikes with energy and penetrates with momentum.

And on 27 June:

quote:

momentum is what causes the bullet to continue on its path to dig deep and penetrate.

Só, according to your second statement momentum carried the bullet from the barrel to the animal because it "continue on its path to dig deep and penetrate".

a) Where was 'energy' all the time? and
b) What happens to 'energy' after impact?

Please define 'energy' in this context you have created here.

depends if the bullet is a GS or rhino...

Springtrap are you really curious or just yanking my chain?
Small fast bullets are very high in energy and shock value, heavy slower bullets carry a lot of momentum.
They all have a certain amount of "shock" value but the lighter faster calibers expend more sooner and lack the momentum to continue very far on their path after meeting resistance.

I do not think that this conversation is going ot carry much value when applied to heavier more shock resistant animals such as buff, elk or moose that are often shot with heavier slower calibers.
But the smaller creatures such as deer that are often shot with calibers that possess a higher shock or energy value are going to be more affected.

I am not an engineeer, that is simply my observation and opinion, if you have a better one lets hear it.

In one of my posts here on AR some time ago, I said a bit more about 'momentum' and 'energy' -

quote:

"Momentum is indicated as p=mv where m is mass and v is velocity. Because momentum depends on velocity, it too has a magnitude and a direction and is a vector quantity."

No sign of any source of energy in all these factors making up the formula.

Só, where does the energy comes from that the hunter needs to propel the bullet?

"....the only source of energy the rifle hunter has available 'is caused by the release of chemical energy of combustion, causing force, causing acceleration of the fired bullet's matter, resulting in a closing velocity being established between the fired bullet and the target'."

Therefor, only the bullet mass (m) traveling at a certain velocity (v) results in momentum (p) which finally reach the target animal - never the so-called 'energy' or 'chemical energy of combustion'.

Hence momentum and momentum alone must be the cause of it all - exit side up as well.

Point is how and why?

The "chemical energy" is transferred to the projectile during projection.
And is retained in increasingly decreasing amounts.
Therefore in the eventual closing of the distance between the game and the gun the residual energy is transferred to the game in a exhibit of kerslpat known as "whumpitis"

Exit side up? why perzactly, it could not happen any other way..

You knuckleheads need to re-read my post above.

This matter has been settled at both the planetary and sub-atomic levels.

Further discussion is pointless.

Oh verily forgive me great Bwanamonkey, The great unwashed "meaning me" mistook your grand equations for the solving of why Hillary has a bigger penis than Bill.
I see now my mistake and will forever more bow to your greatness.

But why is hers bigger??

I have theory to explain exit wound up. This seems to be the case, most of the time as it was with my last whitetail buck. Most us take the heart-lung shot while aiming for the opposite shoulder. We do not break bones going in, usually on exit. The exit wound is bigger with more tissue damage. The animal must lean towards the entrance or " good side" to stay balanced. At death, the animal is leaning to the entrance side and it lands exit side up!