What do you guys do when your PH is your operator? Tipping an owner is, according to Emily Post, inappropriate. In the past, I have hunted with a PH employed by the operator, and have given what I think are good tips. Just not sure what to do in this new circumstance.

Marty,

Only my opinion but if an owner/PH does a good job for you why would you not tip him? The tip is an acknowledgement of a job well done not a supplement to a salary so what difference does it make whether the PH is an owner or employee? On my last safari in '07 I hunted with one of the principals of the company. It never crossed my mind that I should tip him less than if he was an employee.

Mark

If the owner of the hunting company was also my PH, and if I felt, at the end of my hunt, that a tip was warranted, then yes, I would tip him.

In fact, I have done that very thing on more than one occasion!

I just hunted with the owner as my PH. I never considered that I should somehow either not tip him or provide less of a tip.

What are the odds that the other PH's that are employed know the property or are better than the owner? To me, it seems odd to want to somehow give less when the outfitter has likely provided you with one of, if not, their best PH's.

I think the tip should be based on service. If the Outfitter is your PH and works hard to show you a good time, a tip is in order. The outfitter should be working as hard or harder then the PH's he hires. He should be setting an example for others in his company

I agree with all of the above. I don't think Mrs. Post had Phs in mind when she came up with that rule.

The rank of a person with in an organization should have nothing what so ever to do with giving a tip or not giving a tip, it should be based soley on the performance of the individual. JMO.

It is not his fault that he is the owner and PH.. But if he does his job as PH he deserves a tip if one is willing to tip...

Mike

Absolutely tip him if he's earned it.

I agree with all of the above.

I guess I use a different guideline; as a general rule I tip employees but not the owners of businesses. If I've tipped an owner before, it was because I didn't know that they weren't just an employee.

As a generality (and maybe safari hunting is an exception), I think of it as kind of insulting to tip the business owner. However, I do try to take some kind of gift to show appreciation to the PH who is also an owner, just not with the $50 handshake.

I tip the PH if he has earned it. Doesn't make any difference if he is also the operator/outfitter/owner or whatever.

JPK

quote:

It is not his fault that he is the owner and PH..

Actually, he would be the ONLY one responsible for deciding if he hires a PH or does the work himself, no? That would seem to make the arrangement only "his fault".

I am going to deviate from popular opinion here and say that leaving a "cash tip" for the owner of a safari company would be a bit insulting and makes little sense. If the guy isn't making enough money on the daily rates and trophy fees, he has the power to raise his prices. This is VERY different from the contract PH who depends on tips and is basically stuck accepting the wage that the market dictates given an expectation of those tips. I don't tip the owner of a restaurant if he/she waits on me because they have the power to raise the price of a steak dinner if they need the money. Not so for the waiter making $5.00 an hour because of the cultural tradition of tipping waiters.

Now, all of this is not to say that I wouldn't leave a nice gift for the owner of the company as a gesture of my appreciation or perhaps reciprocate in some other way.

JMHO

This is a prime example of how tipping has gotten out of hand.

Tipping was originated for people in the service industry who make very low wages. (Ex. your waitress at a resturant) Then if they gave you service that was above the call of duty they might recieve a tip of gratitude for there exceptional work.

Originaly tipping your guide developed along the same lines as they dont make alot of money sometimes but can greatly affect your hunt.

In general a tip has become expected normal behavior no matter the service.

I dont believe in tipping the safari company operator. He alredy is getting his money.

To the original question - yes, I would tip and yes, I did on one of our trips.

Yes I would tip

I don't know it seems to me that if they do a good job give them a good tip. If he is filling the role of the ph and you tip your ph then tip away. I don't think someone is wrong with the logic in not tipping, just I would not be comfortable not tipping a job welldone.

I agree with the above poster that tipping has gotten out of hand. The safari operator should be paying his employees a fair wage and a tip should be for service that is above average and not expected.

I also don't think it necessary to tip the owner of a safari operation but, with everyone doing so, it will probably become the norm if it isn't already so.

Just out of curiosity, how many have not tipped when service was below average or downright poor?

I wonder what non-USA hunters say?
peter.

In Zimbabwe - 08 i hunted with the owner i gave over 2k in tip to my Ph, in Namibia 2007 i also hunted with the owner of the company he got 0 USD ! I tip after service, as it should be !

Devil's advocate time:

Do you tip your other professionals -- (Based on your Perception of Service or at all)----

Airline Pilot
Lawyer
Accountant
Dentist
Physician
Banker
Architect
Aircraft Mechanic
etc
etc--

and others that may directly effect or have your life/future in their hands--

As to hunts, I have tipped well, at least I was repeatedly and enthusiastically thanked for it.

I do think the whole thing is getting a bit out of hand though, particularly when the operators begin listing schedules of the expectations.

DuggaBoye,

I don't know why some people get tipped and other not. I suppose the intimate realtionship between the PH and client has something to do with it. I have to agree that when someone comes at me with a list of people they expect me to tip I start to get bugged. On a very expensive Botswana safari I was presented a list of 23 people and asked to write in how much I'd like to tip each one. I'd been there 3 days and was changing camps on the next day. I had no idea at all what these folks all did or if they had enhanced my very short stay at all. I gave the PH a very modest tip for the whole 23 person crew and told him to figure it out.

I'm an advocate of tipping and tipping well but tips are not to be expected as supplements to wages. Personally I feel if the client does not bring up tipping that it should never be mentioned. On the other hand I think that a client that has received good service should volunteer a tip for the PH and crew.

Mark

quote:

I do think the whole thing is getting a bit out of hand though, particularly when the operators begin listing schedules of the expectations.

If I saw on a safari operator's web site, in his literature or if I came to know that a particular operator expected certain amounts in tips, I would never book with said operator.

Again, not African, but I have told many aspiring "Guides" here in Texas that if they are wanting to get into the business because of the "Tips", to get out before they even start.

Some folks tip me, some don't, all get the same service and a tip of any kind is appreciated.

I have had hunters tip the camp staff, which is perfectlty fine with me.

In fact if some one who is helping with extra clients by guiding or helps with the meals and asks me if a client offers them a tip, what should they do, I tell them to take it and be very appreciative.

I want clients to give me a tip if they feel that I did a good enough job to deserve it.

I don't want anyone giving me a tip because they think they have to.

Also, and I have stated this elsewhere, a tip from someone that I know that really can't afford it, means a hell of a lot more to me than one from someone just trying to impress someone by giving a large tip.

I go along with the idea that if I am looking at a guides/outfitters information brochures and it is stated that a certain amount is required as a tip, I ain't booking with them.

i tip base on the level of service- not on who( PH or owner) provided it.

I have not seen any brochure or website that stated a required tip. I normally see that the fee doesn't include gratuity or that gratuities are appreciated. I was trying to do a "survey" of what is the expected tip and other than sites like this I had a hard time finding any information.

It seems with the larger outfitters aren't guiding PG hunts so the PH would not be the owner. On the smaller outfitters I would definitely tip my PH based on performance (effort and knowledge) even if they are the "owner". After all with the smaller outfitters being the owner doesn't mean they have more. It just means they are the ones that are risking more to make this available to me.

It has been a while since I looked at any brochures from Africa, but I do remember some back in the late 90's, up to 2000, that listed incidental daily fees of up to "X" amount which covered tipping for the Safari Staff.

I hunted in that situation for a couple of years and tipped the PH/Owner 50% of what I would have tipped just a PH.

That said, I now think that was a mistake and have gone to tipping any PH the same way ~100/day for a DG hunt, without regard to whether or not he has an ownership stake in the company. In fact, I once hunted for a month with 2 PH's at once - where the 2nd PH ran the concession we were using - and I tipped the both about the same.

Tipping, in the context of total safari cost, is not a true driver, but for the PH it's a very important part of his livlihood -- so, I've decided that unless the PH is a jerk or does a poor job, I'd rather be accused of overtipping than the reverse. It just seems like a better plan to err on the upside for good service.

I have and would tip the owner/PH based on the level of success and satisfaction. The owner did not expect a tip and was very reasonable when I asked him what would be a good tip for his employees. I then gave the owner a 10% tip my entire bill.