I did not want to hijack Andrew McClaren's thread below but I'm in the process of planning my first PG hunt to RSA. The actual hunt is more important to me than whacking a lot of animals. I would be very disappointed to find out my experience wasn't as natural as possible. Any tips on how to avoid hunts that are not truly "fair chase"?

Talk to as many of the references provided and ask detailed questions as to the size of the property, number of fences encountered, conduct of hunts, and whether, in retrospect, they felt they had been "had" regarding the nature of their hunt.

George

quote:

Any tips on how to avoid hunts that are not truly "fair chase"?

Avoid RSA and try Namibia for a decent Free Range Hunt.

Seloushunter

Your post asks two different questions. The title says 'avoiding put and take hunts' and your post says you want a 'truly fair chase hunt'

Very few areas in SA are genuine put and take operations where stock is introduced a few days before the client arrives - but (sadly) there are some.

Regarding 'truly fair chase hunts' that is open to individual interpretation to some degree and that (with most people) will vary dependent upon species or groups of species. For example, most people would be happy to hunt plains game in a large area such as 12000 hectares, even though it does have a perimeter fence and might possibly have an occasional introduction of game. Whilst many would be happy with that scenario for PG species, most would consider a hunt for Elephant, Lion or Buff etc in the same area very differently. - Really, you need to make up your own mind on what is and isn't acceptable to YOU. Once you've done that, I'd advise you book with a good rather than a cheap safari company and make your preferences clear to them from the get go.

If you want to be 110$ sure of hunting in a true wilderness area, I suggest you reconsider your destination country and look at somewhere like Tanzania or Mozambique etc........

Thanks for the responses so far.

Shikari, I am sorry to confuse the issue re: "put and take' and "fair chase". I guess I need to clarify in my own mind what is acceptable. Unfortunately, I do not know what is the usual standard and maybe I'm expecting something that isn't possible. I know that I am definetly opposed to any kind of a hunt where animals have been placed days or even months before my arrival. I think I'm OK with hunting a high fence area if it is an extremely large area where the animal populations are basically through natural recruitment with the addition of brood stock at some time. To me this is no different than elk or sheep transplants that are used in my home area. Perhaps I will not find this kind of hunting in RSA and need to consider other locations. I choose RSA because the hunt costs tend to be lower and I'm hoping to do double duty with my air fare from Canada by continuing on after my hunt to do 18 days of travelling with my wife throughout RSA. Am I trying to do something that's not possible?

No, you're not trying to do the impossible but you need to appreciate a couple of things. Firstly that SA is a big country and you should try to hunt and tour in the sort of area. Don't for example hunt in the Cape and then tour the KNP as it takes too long to get between areas. Rather hunt close to the KNP and then tour the KNP. Alternatively, Hunt in KZN and then tour the KZN parks such as Hlhluwe/Umfolozi and/or Mkuze. The advantage of KZN is as part of your trip you can visit the game capture unit on the border between Hluhluwe/Umfolozi.

Secondly that although SA has some pretty large hunting areas, you do have to appreciate that most of them will perform game translocations or introductions etc from time to time. That's just the nature of the business and you have to accept it.

There are occasional areas that don't do that, but not really that many. Those that don't, either have far fewer head of game per square kilometre, are lying to you or will possibly have less expensive facilities etc. Remember these areas need to pay for themselves and running a good operation on the kind of scale it has to be, is very expensive indeed if it's done properly. The only way to get that money back is to put hunters or other tourists through........ and ordinary tourists don't generate anywhere near the same amount of profit as a hunter because they don't pay so much, because they don't have the same facilities and services etc.

If you want to avoid those facts of life, you really need to bite the bullet, pay more and hunt a true wilderness area.

First;best decision you can make is to add extra days!SA offers some great places to go and visit.

And;yes fair chase is possible on high fence IMO.

Seems to me to find outfits who hunt thier own land,the managment practices seem much better, again just my opinion.

Another tip is to understand that certain species require different habitat...Kudu are browsers not grazers...as Andrew McClaren stated in his thread,if your in grass only,you've got a problem....

There are also cattle fence only hunt areas in Kwa Zulu Natal;Vaal Rhebok,Mountain Reedbuck,Bushbuck.....

Would I hunt DG there? No;but you can't believe how big some of these places are.....

SA vs. Namibia is tuff;I love both...

I'd give the edge to Namibia,only for relative trophy prices and overall costs....


Dan

Another option you might like to consider is the Tuli Block Botswana. It's a bit wilder than SA so there's more chance you can come across unexpected DG and you can either hop across the border and be in the KNP in a few hours or you can go the other way and be deeper into Botswana.

That isn't to say that Tuli Block areas never practice translocations etc. They do, but on average, probably fewer than the average SA operation.

Hope that helps.

The issue of fencing and put and take deals with the aesthetic of the experience in addition to other issues, which in my opinion should not be compromised if you are travelling half way around the world. Although many high fence areas may have naturally reproducing herds, I questioned whether, from my home in the Western U.S., I could really know whether it was a put and take operation or not. That, in addition to not wanting to hunt in a fenced area, led me to Namibia, which has many areas without high fences but which are also reasonably priced. I reasoned that if there is no fence, I don't need to worry about whether it is really fair chase. You may want to look into Namibia; however, you should ask the operators candidly if they have a high fence. A number of operators, such as Sebra and Shona, specifically promote the fact that they are not high fenced. They have been extensively reviewed on this forum. I recently hunted with Sebra and had a great experience.

My first post on AR. Lots of great information on this site.

I would tend to believe the risk of "put and take" is higher in South Africa if hunting something exotic, like sable, roan, etc. where there are only a few head of game available. I would raise my eyebrows at that and be skeptical, no matter how attractive the trophy fee.

However, for the common game, it seems much less likely. From my own experiences with deer in the states, game is prolific and will easily sustain itself in good habitat and conditions. For common SA game like impala, warthog, blesbuck (even up to kudu) I just can't imagine any decent operator planting them prior to your arrival!

Go to Namibia. I was originally looking at South Africa but it felt like I would be going to a farm and shooting fenced in livestock - that's not for me. IMO, you would be just as well off to go to the YO Ranch in Texas -- they have PG and it's a lot closer than South Africa.

I saw a show the other day that was filmed in South Africa, the guys were sitting in blinds while various PG roamed around them eating hay - looked like a petting zoo.

I've hunted in a number of RSA Provinces and with the exception of two areas, they were not high fenced. The two that were, needed it along their borders to protect against poachers who ride the roads looking for easy game to poach at night. Most ranches still have cattle fencing from the days of livestock ranching. Some have removed most of those fences and formed conservancies with their adjoining families. Any ranch holding 25,000 acres or more is very capable of offering you a true fair chase hunt. On two of my hunts, it took 9 days each to get my Kudu's. They had that much cover and area to escape me, and I saw plenty of Kudu rams every morning and evening. Getting the shot was difficult due to ranges, brush, wind direction etc. It was as difficult as hunting bull Elk in our Rockies. Some plains game animals are not difficult to hunt; most are. Try hunting Vaal Rhebok and Klipspringers in the Stormburg Mountains sometime. I've yet to take a Vaalie, and went to Zim to get a Klipspringer. Some days you get the Bear; other days the Bear gets you! I have no problems hunting PG in RSA. I've made some outstanding friends there and I'm sure I will make many more. I've never failed to have a great hunt. Just ask questions; state what your looking for and talk to those that have been to many places, not 2 or 3. It helps to have a broad perspective.
Good hunting,
David

Harvey,

Flights from RSA to Namibia, Botswana, Zimbabwe and Mozambique are pretty simple and not too expensive. In the case of Namibia you can go directly there from Europe, do your hunt and then fly to RSA for your touring. The point is combining your hunt in most of southern Africa with touring in RSA is not a problem at all.

Of course if your planning on touring game parks you can go to Tanzania and visit the Ngorongoro Crater, Serengeti, Tarangire Park etc which may be the best parks in Africa. All this can be easily reached from RSA or Europe.

You have lots of options.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by harvey stern:
Thanks for the responses so far.

Shikari, I am sorry to confuse the issue re: "put and take' and "fair chase". I guess I need to clarify in my own mind what is acceptable. Unfortunately, I do not know what is the usual standard and maybe I'm expecting something that isn't possible.

I know that I am definetly opposed to any kind of a hunt where animals have been placed days or even months before my arrival. I think I'm OK with hunting a high fence area if it is an extremely large area where the animal populations are basically through natural recruitment with the addition of brood stock at some time. To me this is no different than elk or sheep transplants that are used in my home area. Perhaps I will not find this kind of hunting in RSA and need to consider other locations. I choose RSA because the hunt costs tend to be lower and I'm hoping to do double duty with my air fare from Canada by continuing on after my hunt to do 18 days of travelling with my wife throughout RSA. Am I trying to do something that's not possible?

Basically you need to decide (what is acceptable to you) not what is acceptable to others, as we all have our own personal opinon on how to skin a cat.

If you say you are reasonably comfortable with put to increase the breeding stock and/or specie diversity that seems fine BUT then you ask about the size of the land as well.

No one can answer perfectly what is the minimum size acceptable, as each property is different in itself.

As I say at the end of the day you have to decide, but I would hazard a guess that anything from around 4000 acre upwards would be suitable to most general hunters whom are not hung up on fences to any large degree.

We personally did not have any adverse comments from hunters on our 4000 acre fenced ranch, which has now been sold to satisfy government land claims. Our other ranch in the mountains which we still own is about 9000 acre and also fenced with 95%+ of the game naturally within the property, and a very small amount introduced some 8 years ago to diversify the species

Good luck

Cheers, Peter

Another factor that hasn't been discussed is the number of hunts a property conducts each year. In most of RSA, a 4,000-acre farm that hosts 30-40 foreign hunters on their first safaris annually may have trouble producing that many 50-inch-plus kudu bulls (which nearly every first-timer wants) year after year without restocking with additional mature bulls.

A population of game animals can be viewed like a pyramid, with the youngest comprising the bottom layer. The mature males are at the very top, and represent the smallest number. It takes a huge kudu population for a game farm to maintain an offtake of 30-40 trophy bulls consistently.

Outfitters who offer animals that are not indigenous to their areas, such as nyalas in the western half of RSA, or roan, sable, tssessbes and red lechwe anywhere they do not occur naturally, also are a problem in my mind.

I know of an instance where a certain species had never been seen within 150 miles of a farm until a friend told the outfitter when he booked his safari that he wanted to hunt one. Sure enough, my friend had his choice of two trophy males when he arrived. Where they came from or how long they had been out of a trailer is anyone's guess.

My friend still is blissfully ignorant of what he had done, and I'll never tell him.

Bill Quimby

My best advice would be.....If somehow?!*?? you end up in a "put and take" hunting property....If somebody "puts in" a 60"+ Kudu....you "take him out".