On a 10/9/8 hunt in Namibia with day rates of $3700 and trophy fees totally $6600, so total of $10,300 how much would you expect your client to pay in total tips?

Actually, experienced clients are welcome to answer this too.

I know how much I tipped for my 10k hunt but I would say it's totaly irrelevant as your experience may or may not be as good as mine

I tipped my PH, trackers from two seperate properties and the kitchen staff from two properties a total of 11%

quote:

Originally posted by postoak:
On a 10/9/8 hunt in Namibia with day rates of $3700 and trophy fees totally $6600, so total of $10,300 how much would you expect your client to pay in total tips?

Actually, experienced clients are welcome to answer this too.

If your happy with your trip 400 USD to your PH and a couple of hundred to the staff.

quote:

Originally posted by postoak:
On a 10/9/8 hunt in Namibia with day rates of $3700 and trophy fees totally $6600, so total of $10,300 how much would you expect your client to pay in total tips?

Actually, experienced clients are welcome to answer this too.

As you can see in the link before, this has been covered in detail on this forum.

Tiping Information

I would also add that the client shouldn't be expected to pay tips.

Shouldn't be some cut of how much your hunt costs
I'd say few hundred bucks to ph and staff is sufficient

Okay, I'll go back to my original statement. Let me hear from outfitters. If you knew your employees were not going to receive any tips, what price would you need to charge to keep them happy in this situation?

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:

quote:

Originally posted by postoak:
On a 10/9/8 hunt in Namibia with day rates of $3700 and trophy fees totally $6600, so total of $10,300 how much would you expect your client to pay in total tips?

Actually, experienced clients are welcome to answer this too.

As you can see in the link before, this has been covered in detail on this forum.

Tiping Information

I would also add that the client shouldn't be expected to pay tips.

Yes, I read all 9 pages of that before making this post. The answers are all over the place and often broken down by individual employees. I want one figure for everybody. I am thinking 10% of the total amount spent at the outfitters would be ample, unless I hear otherwise.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
10% is too much I was told by my African outfitter

Give me his name so I can send him some hate mail.

LOL!

10% is fair. Still almost fell off my chair laughing though.

10% of what?
Daily rate?
Trophy fees?
Or everything in the safari?

Here we go again. Tips based on a percentage are just silly. If you go on a $100,000 safari in Tanzania would you tip the PH $10,000? NO! That would be ridiculous. You're tipping the PH and the crew on how hard they worked not on the price of the hunt. How much effort the PH and crew puts out should have nothing to do with how much you paid the safari operator for the hunt.

Pick a per day number you can live with and tip according to how much effort everybody put out for you.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
10% is too much I was told by my African outfitter

Give me his name so I can send him some hate mail.

Give me his name so I can book a hunt.

This will never go away.
As simple as that.
When you pay half or yearly salary for hunt and being made feel like you gotta come up with more is simply no fun.
If all the operators walked in our hunters own shoes for several hunts, they would have a different outlook, Guaranteed!

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
10% is too much I was told by my African outfitter

Give me his name so I can send him some hate mail.

I wouldn't on the public forum but if anyone has a need to know they could PM me

He also got mad after he found out that my wife and I traded e-mail addresses with the host families and the PH's

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Here we go again. Tips based on a percentage are just silly. If you go on a $100,000 safari in Tanzania would you tip the PH $10,000? NO! That would be ridiculous. You're tipping the PH and the crew on how hard they worked not on the price of the hunt. How much effort the PH and crew puts out should have nothing to do with how much you paid the safari operator for the hunt.

Pick a per day number you can live with and tip according to how much effort everybody put out for you.

Mark

Mark - You've gotta stop all this silly talk!! Some of us guides like big tippers I honestly got tipped $10k one time, on a $7,500 deer hunt - I didn't think that was ridiculous at all

Seriously though - whatever makes a client feel good is appropriate, end of story. If he tips $10k to the PH on a safari, good for them both - obviously the client must have thought it was appropriate and I've certainly seen PH's get more than that a time or two. But I do agree, a percentage basis is not really appropriate - it should be whatever a client feels comfortable with and can afford. If I could afford it, I would tip $10k too on occasion - but its not in my budget so I do the best I can.

My rule of thumb is 15 percent of daily rates adjusted up for hunts in which the daily rate is very low. But then I don't hunt Tz.

Mike

According to the OP's example, 10% of the entire hunt, should cover his gratuities for his trip.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
10% is too much I was told by my African outfitter

Give me his name so I can send him some hate mail.

He also got mad after he found out that my wife and I traded e-mail addresses with the host families and the PH's

Ted,
That's perfectly understandable. A lot of today's PH's think that they will be the next big outfitter and end up contacting hunters they have guided over the years. An act that they have no right in doing. It is probably the single quickest way to get a bad reputation in the hunting industry.

quote:

Originally posted by KMG Hunting Safaris:

Ted,
That's perfectly understandable. A lot of today's PH's think that they will be the next big outfitter and end up contacting hunters they have guided over the years. An act that they have no right in doing. It is probably the single quickest way to get a bad reputation in the hunting industry.

Some clients play that game too...

quote:

Originally posted by KMG Hunting Safaris:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
10% is too much I was told by my African outfitter

Give me his name so I can send him some hate mail.

He also got mad after he found out that my wife and I traded e-mail addresses with the host families and the PH's

Ted,
That's perfectly understandable. A lot of today's PH's think that they will be the next big outfitter and end up contacting hunters they have guided over the years. An act that they have no right in doing. It is probably the single quickest way to get a bad reputation in the hunting industry.

Why should a PH be like a serf to an outfitter ?

Does the hunting contract with client or ph-outfitter contract explicitly state that ?

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by KMG Hunting Safaris:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
10% is too much I was told by my African outfitter

Give me his name so I can send him some hate mail.

He also got mad after he found out that my wife and I traded e-mail addresses with the host families and the PH's

Ted,
That's perfectly understandable. A lot of today's PH's think that they will be the next big outfitter and end up contacting hunters they have guided over the years. An act that they have no right in doing. It is probably the single quickest way to get a bad reputation in the hunting industry.

Why should a PH be like a serf to an outfitter ?

Does the hunting contract with client or ph-outfitter contract explicitly state that ?

Mike

Mike, because the PH is employed by the Outfitter. The outfitter does all the work in obtaining the hunter. Lays out the investments in hunting shows, advertising etc. It has zero to do with what a contract states.
It is just seen as a big no-no as far as ethics goes in the hunting industry.( I'm speaking from between the outfitter and the PH perspective, not the client)
I'm not talking about the friendly exchange between hunter and his PH. I'm speaking about PH's deliberately gaining contact info from hunters they guide, under employment from an outfitter, in order to contact them later.
It's for this reason that myself and my business associate does as many of our own hunts as possible, with a select very, very few PH's doing whatever we can't handle.
Hope this makes sense.
The safari industry is a big industry, but also a very small one. If you fart over here, it stinks over there. So, in other words, among outfitters, news spread, and when PH's in our area pull these type of stunts, they kind of make it difficult for themselves to find hunts with the next outfit. Not a reputation you want to carry over your name.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by KMG Hunting Safaris:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
10% is too much I was told by my African outfitter

Give me his name so I can send him some hate mail.

He also got mad after he found out that my wife and I traded e-mail addresses with the host families and the PH's

Ted,
That's perfectly understandable. A lot of today's PH's think that they will be the next big outfitter and end up contacting hunters they have guided over the years. An act that they have no right in doing. It is probably the single quickest way to get a bad reputation in the hunting industry.

Why should a PH be like a serf to an outfitter ?

Does the hunting contract with client or ph-outfitter contract explicitly state that ?

Mike

Well, what I find rather disturbing is a PH who is working for someone, tells you that you are going to get better service next time if you book with HIM!!

To me, that places him on my black list, to never deal with him again!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by KMG Hunting Safaris:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
10% is too much I was told by my African outfitter

Give me his name so I can send him some hate mail.

He also got mad after he found out that my wife and I traded e-mail addresses with the host families and the PH's

Ted,
That's perfectly understandable. A lot of today's PH's think that they will be the next big outfitter and end up contacting hunters they have guided over the years. An act that they have no right in doing. It is probably the single quickest way to get a bad reputation in the hunting industry.

Why should a PH be like a serf to an outfitter ?

Does the hunting contract with client or ph-outfitter contract explicitly state that ?

Mike

Well, what I find rather disturbing is a PH who is working for someone, tells you that you are going to get better service next time if you book with HIM!!

To me, that places him on my black list, to never deal with him again!

Exactly Saeed. If it was not for the outfitter, the PH would not have the job in the first place.

quote:

Exactly Saeed. If it was not for the outfitter, the PH would not have the job in the first place.

Spot on Marius! The phrase: "Biting the hand that feeds you" comes to mind...

quote:

Originally posted by ChrisTroskie:

quote:

Exactly Saeed. If it was not for the outfitter, the PH would not have the job in the first place.

Spot on Marius! The phrase: "Biting the hand that feeds you" comes to mind...

yep.

I think we've all seen that happen before. In the end , It never works out good for the hunter or the PH. It speaks volumes for the ( lack of ) character of the PH though.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
10% of what?
Daily rate?
Trophy fees?
Or everything in the safari?

Ten percent of what you spend with the outfitter. Daily rate + trophy fees = $10,300 / 10 = $1030.

And, I should point out I would do this whether the outfitter is my PH or not. So if my outfitter wants to make more money for himself, he could do this by assigning himself to me as PH.

As for the example of a $10,000 tip on a $100,000 hunt, I'd suggest that client can probably afford the $10,000!

It's the same deal as in a restaurant. I go to a restaurant and spend $30 and leave $6 for the server and I go in and spend $200 and leave $40 for the server. The server didn't do much more work in the latter case, but I still leave that tip. If I can spend $200 for a meal, I can afford the $40 tip.

I am going to repeat what I posted on the tips thread created by Saeed:

quote:

I know now what I am going to do on all future trips. I will tell the outfitter, at the beginning of the trip, that I am going to give him tip money for all his employees, to divide as he sees fit. AND, I will pay him when I get back home, by wire transfer. That solves a couple of problems -- carrying cash and deciding who gets how much. When I say goodbye to the PH I will tell him that I have given his tip to the outfitter. If the outfitter doesn't give some or all of the money to his staff, that is on him. So, now all I have to do is come up with one figure.

And the figure I have come up with is 10% of daily rate fees + trophy fees.

I know this may not be the way certain high-rollers with excellent managerial and people skills want to do it, but for the vast majority of low-end plains game safari hunters -- especially the inexperienced ones who come on here because they are confused about tipping, I think this is a good procedure.

quote:

Originally posted by postoak:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
10% of what?
Daily rate?
Trophy fees?
Or everything in the safari?

Ten percent of what you spend with the outfitter. Daily rate + trophy fees = $10,300 / 10 = $1030.

And, I should point out I would do this whether the outfitter is my PH or not. So if my outfitter wants to make more money for himself, he could do this by assigning himself to me as PH.

All respect to you. If the outfitter still hunts himself, it's most probably because he has to.

quote:

Originally posted by postoak:
I am going to repeat what I posted on the tips thread created by Saeed:

quote:

I know now what I am going to do on all future trips. I will tell the outfitter, at the beginning of the trip, that I am going to give him tip money for all his employees, to divide as he sees fit. AND, I will pay him when I get back home, by wire transfer. That solves a couple of problems -- carrying cash and deciding who gets how much. When I say goodbye to the PH I will tell him that I have given his tip to the outfitter. If the outfitter doesn't give some or all of the money to his staff, that is on him. So, now all I have to do is come up with one figure.

And the figure I have come up with is 10% of daily rate fees + trophy fees.

I know this may not be the way certain high-rollers with excellent managerial and people skills want to do it, but for the vast majority of low-end plains game safari hunters -- especially the inexperienced ones who come on here because they are confused about tipping, I think this is a good procedure.

Very reasonable way of doing it.

quote:

When I say goodbye to the PH I will tell him that I have given his tip to the outfitter. If the outfitter doesn't give some or all of the money to his staff, that is on him.

.... implying you don't give a shit if the designated recipients, those who gave you their best efforts get this money or not?

Implying that I believe the outfitter wants to keep his employees happy and knows better than I who has done the best work and should be kept happiest.

If you leave without tipping the crew I'll guarantee you that they will believe you are not going to tip them.

Mark

Well then they'll be pleasantly surprised when they get money from the outfitter a couple of days later.

If you don't trust the outfitter to pass on the money then you probably shouldn't be booking with him at all.

So using this 10% rule of thumb for a tip; is that total tip to PH and staff or just the PH?

JIm

Total for PH and staff.

I've just now found a tipping survey and it was for a $9,000 hunt.

From that:

Highest tip (PH and staff): $4,000

Lowest tip (PH and staff): $70

Median tip (PH and staff): $737 (8.2%)

Tipping should never be expected. If you take a job you should be working to make the person you your working for happy. Outfitters make a living if the clients are happy there for If you work hard for your boss the client should leave happy. If the client is happy he may leave a tip. a tip should be concidered a bonus, If not it is a fee. I tip what I can afford and if I think It is warrented . In my opinion it should be personal,

quote:

Originally posted by postoak:
Implying that I believe the outfitter wants to keep his employees happy and knows better than I who has done the best work and should be kept happiest.

Then you need to do some more research to include the hidden (despicable) habits regarding some outfitters; the ones who short-change their PH and staff or at worst, even stiff them.

However, its your money and your call but sleep well in not knowing if your generosity was well received or until the recipient calls to thank you.