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These three websites may answer a few of the questions some AR members have asked about Safari Club International and the Safari Club International Foundation. http://www.faqs.org/tax-exempt...ional.html#revenue_a http://www.bbb.org/charity-rev...on-in-tucson-az-8628 http://www.scisouthafrica.org/ Much of the club's activities in Africa are buried in the last site so be sure to click on "mission & objectives" and remember that the stated mission of SCI's South African office is to "collaborate and liaise with SCIF on conservation project and activities in Africa." To me, this means that SCIF finances additional projects in Africa that do not officially involve SCI. Unfortunately, I could not find how much money SCI and SCIF spend in Africa annually, but it obviously is many times the $60,000 that has been quoted frequently on this forum. I found it interesting that the club's convention ("special events") now represents only 45% of total revenues. Funds from dues, publications, awards programs and other sources now exceed the money the show brings in. That's a major change from when I retired as publications director nearly twelve years ago. Also unlike what has been said on this forum in the past, SCI's and SCIF's administrative and fund-raising costs, including salaries, appear to be a lot lower than similar organizations. Bill Quimby | ||
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Bill, put on your flack jacket! | |||
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A lot of people do not understand that financial statements are prepared in compliance with authoritative standards established by the Financial Accounting Standards Board. Those are the rules of the land. Period end of story . If SCI prepared financials any other way they would not get what is known as a qualified opinion from their auditors. That is a really bad thing in this country. A REALLY bad thing. It doesn't matter what A reader of the financials may want to see. The statements have to follow the standards . Those bitching about the financials are simply not informed. | |||
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Bill, Thanks for posting that. I see lots of interesting info there, including a donation or some kind of other aid to the Lion Breeders Association that gave me a bit of a smile.  ....... but I still don't see any actual (relevent) figures with regard to what they spend in Africa? I appreciate there might be some there and I've just missed them so if anyone else can find them, I'd be grateful if they could direct me to them. I have to say, it's good to see even that amount of info posted but would be interested to know if it's publication is new and in response to recent events or is older info that has suddenly come to light? | |||
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Larry, I'm sure everyone understands that financial statements submitted to Government have to fit a certain criteria...... that much is bloody obvious but surely, there's nothing to prevent the corporation from publishing further, more informative/helpful figures for the further information of their members and the general public? I know I've posted the link below several times before, but that organisation can publish full details of ALL their donations for almost three decades and surely, if they can do it, why can't other organisations such as SCI do the same thing? http://www.grandcharity.org/da..._19822009_apr_10.pdf It appears to me the general public aren't informed (as you say) but not in the way you mean. | |||
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Probably unrelated to this post, but SCI is spending money to support the upstart "Tea Party" Republican candidate for US Senate in Alaska, Joe Miller. Why SCI should waste money to support this guy is beyond me. Miller beat the incumbent, Lisa Murkowski, in the primary due to a combination of anti-Washington sentiment, an off season primary, and inflammatory ballot initiatives. Murkowski is a solid NRA, pro hunting legislator. Miller is a blank slate who has never had a private sector job to speak of, but is receiving huge amounts of out of state campaign money. Murkowski is running as a write-in candidate in the general election and will probably win. She lost to Miller by only 1500 votes in a thinly attended August primary. SCI should concentrate on lobbying for legislation, and not support political candidates for office - it will come back to haunt them, and for me personally, it is one more reason that I don't support them. SCI, STAY OUT OF ALASKA POLITICS. Dave | |||
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Why does it matter what they spend in Africa? I believe SCI's mission mainly relates to preserving hunting and firearms rights in the U.S.A. The thing that preserves hunting rights in Africa is mostly money from hunters and the activities of local African hunting organizations. | |||
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I see your point but I was referring to the oft repeated claim that they do so very much for Africa and African hunting...... but let's return to the point you make for a moment. If they do so much for (in your words) "preserving hunting and firearms rights in the U.S.A". Perhaps you can tell me why US hunters have been unable to import Mozambican elephant products for the last 3 decades or so, despite that country having perfectly valid CITES quota for the species? Or perhaps you can tell me why USF&WS BOAST on their website that they've never allowed an Ethiopian leopard trophy to be imported into the USA? And again, Ethiopia has perfectly valid CITES quota for the species. These issues are being addressed but by John Jackson of Conservation Force and when the time eventually comes when USF&WS eventually cave in, it'll him you guys have to thank rather than anyone else. The more I find out about JJ & CF, the more astounded I am that he achieves so much with so little and for so little thanks........ I reckon you guys ought to thank your lucky stars he's around!  ADDED It's always the same thing with the debates on this subject.......They rumble on for yonks and then ALWAYS stall because of lack of figures and/or the subject of the upper echelons and ethics committee etc.  | |||
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Dave: Political contributions would not go through SCI or SCIF, but through the SCI Political Action Committee (SCIPAC). If I remember correctly, federal law requires it to raise its own funds through individual donations and not from the two other organizations.
Steve: It's not new and "recent events" had nothing to do with it. Websites get their information from forms SCI/SCIF are required to file. As for John Jackson, it is absolutely true that he accomplishes much with little and our world would be considerably worse off without him and what he does. That said, do not underestimate SCI's efforts and many successes in protecting hunters' rights or SCIF's conservation programs. It cannot be disputed that American hunters continue to have the ability to import their lion, elephant, leopard, white rhino and bontebok trophies from certain countries, for example, because of SCI. Much of that is due to the groundwork that John laid when he was SCI's president, to be sure. Bill Quimby | |||
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http://www.safariclubfoundatio...06/SCIF_2005_990.pdf This is the IRS form 990 that SCIF filed in 2006, the latest I could find. It includes a list of grants and scholarships that it funded that year, but does not list individual programs or expenditures on other continents. Bill Quimby | |||
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Bill, Actually FY2008 is available on their website. When evaluating the financials one should really look at SCI and SCIF combined because the board of directors has about a 90% overlap and obout 30% of SCI"s revenues are donated to SCIF. Here are some key figures in my opinion: SCI’s FY 2008 financials from their website http://www.scifirstforhunters.....09_SCI_FORM_990.pdf SCI Foundation 2008 financials from their website http://www.safariclubfoundatio...09_SCIF_FORM_990.pdf SCI generated net donations and revenues of $14.05M SCI donated $4.42M to the SCI Foundation SCI Foundations had net donations and revenue of $5.32M in other words it generated an incremental $.9M Therefore the combined revenues and donations were $14.95M SCI Salary, Benefits, Pensions, and Payroll Taxes were $5.0M SCI Foundation Salary, Benefits, Pensions, and Payroll Taxes were $1.8M SCI Office Expenses (not including rent and IT) were $.95M SCI Foundation Office Expenses (not including rent and IT) were $.4M Combined Salary, Benefits, Pensions, and Payroll Taxes and Office Expenses were $8.15M or 55% of donations and revenues. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Hmmm.....interesting oppinions. Although this is probably best left for the PF I thought it needed some attention where ever it was.
Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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I think it goes without saying that the larger the % of money that goes into the group's stated purpose the better, but does anyone have any idea what's a good %? I personally have no idea what's good and I'd imagine most of the rest of us on here don't know either. That said I suppose I'd rather have 55% of 15mil spent on administrative costs rather than 10% of 1mil becuase they don't have enough support staff to raise 15mil. Just a thought. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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Just an " FYI " I did a little websurfing & found an interesting article: http://academics.ajula.edu/Con...?CID=1138&u=2445&t=0 Student Theses > 2000- > 2002 > Allocating and Reporting Nonprofit Spending Efficiency Versus Effectiveness The previously reviewed data and research demonstrate that donors expect nonprofits to spend 85% of their resources on programming as well as the concept that nonprofit success involves nonprofit spending on organizational capacity and fundraising investment. Even if nonprofits perform as desired by the donating public and spend 85% of their resources on programming, does that mean that their programs are effective? Is the 85% spending successful in carrying out and accomplishing the intended mission of the organization? Effectiveness is also essential when evaluating nonprofit success. " PAPI  | |||
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Brett, You bring up an important point about "stated purpose" in the non profit world the stated purpose of a non profit is referred to as Program Services. We have to look at both the type of expenditures and how they are categorized as Program Services, General Management, or Funding Raising Expenses. As an example, let us say that I am the Director of a non profit entity and the stated purpose is hunter education. Let us say that I get paid an outrageous salary $200k a year for 20 hours a week of work. If I spend 90% of my 20 hours a week on hunter education the non profit will categorize $180k of my salary as being Program Services; i.e., directly related to the mission statement. So that looks pretty good, 90% spent on the mission statement but that doesn't alleviate the fact that my salary was $200k a year for 20 hours work a week. The other issue that determines whether the numbers are "good or bad" is how an organization markets itself and then what the actual numbers tell us. If an organization told me they were all about promoting the game of baseball, teaching the game of baseball, protecting the game of baseball for the future, recording the history of baseball, and they love to get together and go to baseball games. I might not care that 55% was spent on salaries and office expense. However, if the same organization kept telling me over and over how much they are doing to make sure that under privileged kids will get to continue to play baseball and how they are always building baseball diamonds for kids and I found out they spent 55% on salaries and office expense, I would be disappointed. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Brett, What you said is what I would have, but you beat me to the punch. The WSJ had a few stories on this race as well. Maybe I am prejudiced, but this country needs more political leaders that have been in combat and less professional politicians. Has Murkowski served? One thing not mentioned so far in this thread: Murkowski vowed to drop out if Miller beat her. So much for her word... Murkowski? Is Alaska a democracy or a monarchy? Beat Navy. | |||
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Brett, like you I don't know much about what the "norm" is. I will say that the administrative costs of 8.15 is as much or maybe even a little more than another organization I belong to that maintains a national board, a DC office, has a national convention, a PAC arm, monthly magazine, puts millions into "in the field" projects and studies etc, etc, that brings in 50 million plus in revenues through producer membership, industry contribution and other standard channels. Within said organization there is a clause that administrative costs cannot exceed 15% of budget without being reviewed and approved by the board and a majority of the general membership. Now I honestly don't know that that makes SCI's percentage really bad or the other organization's really good, or just makes them better BS'ers than SCI. Playing devils' advocate, to a certain extent maybe some of the costs of running a national organization are fixed and would not respond in kind as revenues increase. I tend to doubt it, but I'm not qualified to say for sure. | |||
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This is from the Charity Navigator website: Highly Rated Charities Performing Similar Types of Work Name..........................................................Overall Score.......Overall Rating Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation - MT....................66.52.............Four Stars Ducks Unlimited - TN ..........................................63.86.............Four Stars U.S. Sportsmen’s Alliance Foundation - OH..........62.69..............Four Stars Safari Club International Foundation - AZ ............62.67.............Four Stars Trout Unlimited - VA............................................60.95.............Four Stars Ruffed Grouse Society - PA...................................60.13.............Four Stars International Game Fish Assn - FL .......................59.69...........Three Stars United Anglers of Southern California - CA............55.20............Three Stars More on this website: http://www.charitynavigator.or...h.summary&orgid=8553 According to a letter I found from the CEO of Charity Navigator that SCIF had posted separately on the internet, “Only 13% of the charities we rate have received at least 3 consecutive 4-star evaluations, indicating that Safari Club International Foundation consistently executes its mission in a fiscally responsible way, and outperforms most other charities in America. This ‘exceptional’ designation from Charity Navigator differentiates Safari Club International Foundation from its peers and demonstrates to the public it is worthy of their trust.” Bill Quimby | |||
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She hasn't served to my knowledge. I would agree that all else being equal military experience is good. If I ever run at some point I would hope my lack of military experience wouldn't keep me from success. We'll see. Murkowski is definitely a professional politician.....hence the write in campaign. Miller as I've stated is most certainly not a pro and certainly doesn't act like it....thank God! One might think monarchy with the Murkowski legacy. However Palin booted the old man and time will shortly tell if Miller is able to boot Lisa. We'll see. Quite frankly after her display with the write in I wouldn't even vote her in for dog catcher. On a positive note our other senator Mark Begich is sealing his legacy as a one term senator along with piss poor mayor and slimy politician. I WOULD have looked for Murkowski to take his spot, but now I'm thinking Dan Sullivan our current mayor of Anchorage. He's actually had the testicular fortitude to clean up the huge deficit Begich left unbeknownst to anyone before leaving for the senate. He had to do some unpopular things to balance the bugdet, but to his credit he did them and we'll be the better for it. Hopefully he can take the same iniciative to the other senate seat. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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Bill, I have talked to the folks at the Charity Navigator and they readily admit that they do not have the ability to rate how prudent the expenditures are but only rate on the classification of the expenditures. My example above regarding salaries is a prime example of the problem. A non profit can waste a ton of money but if the wastefulness is related to the mission statement then all looks good. SCI could buy Mont Blanc pens @ $500 a piece but if they are used to take notes at meetings regarding hunter education then the Charity Navigator site would score them high for having a large percentage of expenses related to Program Services. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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About halfway down here: http://www.usaid.gov/our_work/.../conf_gupta_day2.pdf Talks of around 80% of (different) NGOs income spent on their programmes, 18% spent on administration costs and 2% on fundraising. As I've said before though, none of this means anything without considerably more detailed but easy to understand relevent figures from the corporation themselves. I have to say, that even if a large percentage of income is swallowed up in admin costs etc, that wouldn't particularly worry me if what's left was spent on really good causes rather than wasted on pointless projects as often/usually happens with many NGOs. However, looking at those figures did make me realise that I'd never realised how many (presumably full time) staff SCI must have. | |||
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Even though its been pointed out to you numerous times!!!!!!!!!! A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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There probably aren't as many actual employees as the websites imply. SCI and SCIF pays portions of the salaries of some, depending upon the percentage of their time spent on work for either group, or at least that was true a dozen years ago. Bill Quimby | |||
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Matt, Big is one thing....... US$8.15 worth of big is mucking fassive! Although I suppose it must take an awful lot of people to keep all those cups, plaques, plates and trophies nice and shiny and clean!  | |||
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Steve, Would you publish details of your figure if you were an ugly 500 pounds whore? | |||
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Thanks, Bill, for posting this. For all of its many faults, SCI does plenty of good for the cause of African hunting. More than nearly any other NGO one could name. This thread proves, however, that there are none so blind as those who will not see. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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