The April/May 2006 issue of Sports Afield has a piece on Namibian PH Jan Oelofse. In it, he is quoted as saying these things:

On shooting

"I don't care about the animal that gets shot. He's dead. I care about the rest of the herd; not to upset them any more than necessary. The object is to take one animal with the least disturbance to the herd. That's why I want my clients to shoot from the vehicle when possible. The herd is not disturbed by a vehicle as much as it is by a man on foot."

On ethical hunting:

"There is no such thing. Some guys talk abot not wanting to shoot out of a vehicle because it's unethical. Nonsense. They flew on a jet to get to Africa and worry about a truck?"

If like me you don't care for shooting from the vehicle, make sure your PH knows this up front. Many don't care how it gets done, they just want their client to get his animal.

Quite a bit was written about this article a couple of weeks ago. A search will bring up the thread. Lots of dialogue and lack of consensus on this one.

Thanks, but searches for Sports Afield and Jan Oloefse yielded nothing. Can you recall what the thread was titled?

I had seen the comment about flying on the jet. It makes some sense. If one feels that they want to hunt like they did 60 years ago (which is perfectly fine) maybe they should take a month long cruise to get to Africa.

I Dont have a preference one way or the other. If someone agrees with their PH and its legal, then go for it. They are paying and should get what works for them.

IMHO

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I had seen the comment about flying on the jet. It makes some sense.

Really? I see absolutely no sense in the statement at all.

By the same rationale if we fly into a Salmon camp in Alaska we no longer have to use a rod and reel but can use dynamite or nets because, by the use of a modern means of transport to get to the AREA, we are no longer ethical anyway so we can throw away all 'pretense' of being ethical!

By the same rationale, we can use a Quad .50 on a dove shoot in South America - because we flew in by jet!

By the same rationale, we can shoot ducks on the water because we drove to the swamp/river/dam in our 4x4!

By the same rationale, we can scrap all of the hunting seasons and quotas and just shoot whatever we want! Hey, we aren't ethical if we fly or drive, so let's have some fun!

By the same rationale, we can shoot elephants from a helo with a door mounted mini-gun! We can step off the International flight, walk across the tarmac to our waiting gunship and be 'hunting' in no time at all!

By the same rationale, why don't we just order all of our African trophies via the internet. The PHs can hold the animals in a boma, we can view them by webcam, make our selection and remote-video the 'hunt' while the PH leans over the boma wall and shoots the animal behind the ear with a handgun. - Much simpler, much quicker, won't disturb the rest of the wild herds and we won't have to agonise about being unethical because we used a modern aircraft to get the hunting area.

How we get to any hunting area has NOTHING to do with the ethics of hunting.

I don't know the PH who made those comments but it sounds to me like he is simply trying to justify 'production-line-hunting' = get the client in, get his trophies, get his money and get him back on a plane home, as quickly as possible.

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Originally posted by BwanaBob:
[I don't know the PH who made those comments but it sounds to me like he is simply trying to justify 'production-line-hunting' = get the client in, get his trophies, get his money and get him back on a plane home, as quickly as possible.

PH must not be good enough or too lazy to get his client close on foot.

I am not opposed to shooting from a vehicle under certain conditions, but I believe it should be distinguished from hunting. Hunting it is not, collecting it is. There are, of course, always exceptions. For the disabled hunter who continues to enjoy the activity, it may be the only way he/she can participate.

I know I will get into hot water with many purist
But, listened to judgement calls of this nature tooo long now
I therefore like to point out that everyone has the right - within the law- so to speak, to do as he pleases,as long as he foots the bill and enjoys it.
Somebody else does not have to approve or do the same.
All cited arguments of "ethical hunting" are very dubious to me.What is "ethical" about hunting?
Since when is killing for pleasure "ethical"

I am not saying one should not use one's best"ethic" etc, but please dont be holier than the pope.

Its ethical to hunt with a modern scoped rifle?
rather than a bow and arrow or better a spear or pocket knife?

We enjoy a challenge in the hunt, that challenge is very personal and means something for one person and nothing to another.It will change with experience and circumstances.

YOur "ethics" are not mibe and vice versa

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Originally posted by Ohiosam:

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Originally posted by BwanaBob:
[I don't know the PH who made those comments but it sounds to me like he is simply trying to justify 'production-line-hunting' = get the client in, get his trophies, get his money and get him back on a plane home, as quickly as possible.

PH must not be good enough or too lazy to get his client close on foot.

Jan Oelofse is one of the most famous and most respected PH's in Africa. I suggest you learn the ropes before trying to ring the Bell.

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Jan Oelofse is one of the most famous and most respected PH's in Africa.

Then he should know better!

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Originally posted by Mickey1:

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Originally posted by Ohiosam:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BwanaBob:
[I don't know the PH who made those comments but it sounds to me like he is simply trying to justify 'production-line-hunting' = get the client in, get his trophies, get his money and get him back on a plane home, as quickly as possible.[/QUOTE

PH must not be good enough or too lazy to get his client close on foot.

Jan Oelofse is one of the most famous and most respected PH's in Africa. I suggest you learn the ropes before trying to ring the Bell.

More often than not old time PH's that have been doing this for eternity end up being the most dependant on "diesel stalking". There are but a few exceptions that I know of

IMHO ethical hunting is what each hunter perceives it to be, as man has come up with this terminolgy (ethical) and man cannot agree on anything can he.

Is sitting at a water hole with a bow in the middle of the dry season ethical, you tell me and then we with both know.

What I am saying is the perception is that the animal and man must be on a level playing field which in reality is dreaming as man has the technology and stealth to do almost anything.

Cheers and good hunting

Peter

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PH must not be good enough or too lazy to get his client close on foot.

The PH is often focused on what the client whant to do! If the client like to ride the pickup and shoot of it lots of PH:s go with that, even if they don´t like it at all.....

A PH in RSA told me about a common "problem" with forgein hunters hunting on foot in RSA.

The client arrives and the PH ask if they want to go by foot or by car when stalking. he client answers: On foot, of corse!

First day go by and the client gets unreal blisters on his feet due to not beeing used to the heat and poor fitting shoes, nog good enough socks etc etc.

The second day the client staggers to the pickup and spend te rest of the week in a seat......

To me as long as it is legal in the area you are in, no problems. It is when you break the local laws that someone is being unethical.

Let people hunt the wat that they want to. If you do not like it, then do not do it and stop judging others.

I know of a local farmer that used to get crop damage deer permits. These allow you to harvest deer about anyway you can. You can use spotlights, high power rifle (we live in a shotgun state) shoot from vehicles. I don't have a problem with this, it's not hunting it's controlling problem animals just like trying to control rats or mice. However this guy did something that I feel crossed the line. He'd intentionaly gut shot deer and let them run off and die and he didn't have to bother handling the carcus. What he did wasn't illegal, if the game warden found out about all he could do was not give him more permits. I don't think because it's legal many here would be comfortable with this.

There is probably nothing more satisfying in hunting than finally being able to execute a stalk on foot and take a trophy animal. Especially if it it took a few days to get it right, and have the corresponding luck or favorable conditions that allowed it to happen. Shooting from a truck doesn't require the same skill, increases your odds of approaching the animal closely and provides an easier shooting plateform, and just won't leave you with the same feeling of accomplishment, legal or ethical considerations aside. If you just want to shoot a few animals and tell others you've been hunting, that is one's own personal decision.

I think some here are missing the point of what the PH said in the article (or at least how it was printed). He seems to find shooting from the vehicle HIS PREFFERED method of hunting. It's not a whinning hunter begging him to do it this way. It's not a handicapped hunter (I don't have a problem with that). It is the PH almost insisting on this. Several mentioned this is a topic that should be discussed before the trip. Make sure your PH's style of hunting is compatable with yours.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by WPN:
The April/May 2006 issue of Sports Afield has a piece on Namibian PH Jan Oelofse. In it, he is quoted as saying these things:

"The herd is not disturbed by a vehicle as much as it is by a man on foot."

Well, he is right about that. All you have to do is get out of the truck to see the reaction. I thought that the whole point was to see if you can get close enough quietly when they can not only see you are a human but can also smell you and hear you, if you don't take care not to be spotted or winded or heard.

quote:

"The herd is not disturbed by a vehicle as much as it is by a man on foot."

One thing I find a little odd about this statement is that you still have to get out of the vehicle to recover the animal once it has been shot, even if you do shoot it from the vehicle. And you can't always drive right up to the downed animal, so in many cases (if not all cases) you still have to alight from the vehicle and disturb the game by moving on foot!

Or should we just shoot them and leave them????

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Originally posted by BwanaBob:

quote:

"The herd is not disturbed by a vehicle as much as it is by a man on foot."

One thing I find a little odd about this statement is that you still have to get out of the vehicle to recover the animal once it has been shot, even if you do shoot it from the vehicle. And you can't always drive right up to the downed animal, so in many cases (if not all cases) you still have to alight from the vehicle and disturb the game by moving on foot!

Or should we just shoot them and leave them????

I beg to differ:

If one predominantly shoots at game from a vehicle throughout a season, the game WILL ABSOLUTELY be disturbed by a car and will spook from a mile away as soon as they hear that diesel engine coming down the road.

On the other hand, if game is being hunted on foot most of the time, one can approach game rather efficiently with a vehicle and true, once you alight, the game takes flight because they associate danger with the person "on foot" not the vehicle.

I hunted with Jan's outfit last August. Jan is 75 and doesn't personally guide much anymore.

I did not want to shoot from a truck and didn't, with one exception. My PH, Phillipe, asked me to take a specific cull gemsbok for lion food. I shot that from the truck.

I had an enjoyable safari ans shot most everything I wanted with the exception of mountain zebra.

Jan did tell me on the last day that geting trophies was "easier and better" from the truck. I didn't take offense and didn't debate the topic.

Seeker