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| One of Us |
So true! | |||
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Where were you for the last 10 or so years? most everyone I know has been aware of that allegation for some years! What does his sex life have to do with his African hunting? Were you looking for a book on African hunting or a book on sex? I'm sure if the truth were known, he is not the only Homosexual in the hunting fields anywhere in the world! ....................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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what and now he was drinking .... lol who cares about what he was, i still enjoy his writings ... | |||
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Dont worry too much mate, some people on AR got their noses all out of joint when I once posted the facts about Rob Ruarks heavy drinking on safari, ...46 bottles of gin on a 42 day safari...  He would do his 'arduous' morning hunt session then be driven drive back to camp for the lunch period on, drinking session. Since Ruark wrote that himself, I dont know why some his fans on AR got upset at me, for relaying it. Hemingway is another interesting character, he displayed grand alpha-male characteristics as an adult, but as little boy his mother dressed him in girls clothes and called him by the female "Ernestine". apparently it was his father that started the ardent process to turn him into an alpha-male type. But then again his father blew his own brains out,... as such so did his famous son Ernest... | |||
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, Id dont see where 55 actually indicated his personal feelings [eg; love,hate,disgust,dissapointment] 'feelings' and 'perception' can be two different things. e.g.; You can perceive something and then form your personal opinions-feelings based on that [correct or incorrect] perception. 55 is entitled to change part of his perception when he confirms enlightening facts. That does not automatically mean he now dislikes or derides Mr.Taylor. Many People sure changed part of their previous perception(and feelings) toward Rock Hudson, but a number still considered him a heartthrob and fine actor, despite the newly alterated perception of his sexual pref. I still consider that Lance Armsrtong was a rather exceptional natural ability athlete, despite his illegal enhancing. (he still blitzed other top riders going up the mountain that were doing the same illegal performance enhancing as him) However since the clear facts have come out about him, certain aspects of my perception of him have changed, mainly about his character/integrity, but not his exceptional athletic ability. | |||
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Trying to think of something less important to me than who someone I never knew was sleeping with a half century ago. Have not come up with anything yet. | |||
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 ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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The bottom (no pun intended  ) line is that everyone is entitled to his own opinion/beliefs so if the OP finds Taylor's lifestyle or actions offensive then that's his right .To each his own....his viewpoint doesn't trouble me one bit. | |||
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Lemme guess, Weiland's book? | |||
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Most very young Victorian boys were dressed this way including my grandfather. If you are inferring that Hemingway was some sort of closet homosexual you are dead wrong. You and Paul Hendrickson should go out bowling some time, you'll have plenty to talk about. And be sure to call Joyce Carol Oates as well. Hemingway's uber-masculinity was not a reaction against some latent feelings, if he was rebelling against anything feminine, it wasn't from within himself, it was his emasculating and domineering mother who controlled Ernest's father as if he were on strings, to the point that I am sure Clarence's suicide was as much a relief from his wife as anything else. | |||
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Nor did I anywhere say or infer it was, My earlier post clearly & simply says his father heavily influenced bringing his son Ernest, up in the alpha-male way, as opposed to the mother calling her young son the female 'Ernestine'... IF E.H. ever had any latent homosexual tendencies, its a secret he seems to have kept well to himself. So I can't really say one way or the other, whether he had such tendencies, or not. What ever the case, fact remains both father and son each blew their own brains out, on separate occasions. Ernests own son, had genre-rassignment surgery and later called himself 'Gloria' Hemingway. | |||
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When you use the conjunction "but" between Hemingway acting as an alpha-male and his mother dressing him in girl's clothing and his mother calling him "Ernestine," you are clearly inferring more than mere correlation. "As an adult, Trax was petulant and pedantic, but as a child he was quiet and affable." | |||
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any suggestion that I have inferred that EH had actual homosexual tendencies, is phantom notion of your own creation. I simply showed the stark difference between his Mother treating young Ernest like a little girl [clearly indicated by her referring to him as 'Ernestine'] and the father doing the starkly opposing Alph-male indoctrination. ( apparently the mother really wanted a daughter, so she began treating her young Ernest in some ways as one] It seems to me the father simply tried to alter in his own way, the influence of the mothers girly treatment of young Ernest. | |||
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Things I do not care about: 1. Taylor's sexuality. 2. Hemingway's masculinity. 3. Ruark's alcohol consumption. 4. Capstick's embellishment. All four were wonderful writers and I can enjoy their books and writings irrespective of any foibles they might have had. Mike | |||
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What in the hell is wrong with you lot????? Taylor is DEAD, Hemingway is DEAD! What in the HELL does it matter to any of you GENTLEMEN(????????) about EITHER of those people Or ANYONE ELSE"S FUCKING Sexual Preferences?????????????????????? No wonder our world has gone to hell! How many of you fine, upstanding individuals ever Actually met or talked to either Taylor or Hemingway????????????? How many of you fine, upstanding people believe that you are eligible for Sainthood??????? Those men made their choices and lived their lives on THEIR terms, unlike the gutless/spineless POS's that choose to find fault with Men that lived life on their terms. No wonder this world is so fucked up!!!!! Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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What do you mean 'You lot'?? not every body here is condemning Taylor or Hemingway or Rock Hudson,... in fact no-body is doing such. and we are still free to discuss more about their lives, not just selectively their hunting,writing or acting. Nothing wrong with learning-knowing more about the upbringings-complexities of celebrities lives than just the surface fainfair surrounding their commercial success writings or movies. Im also interested to know more about the US Olympic swimming champion Phelps, what if anything influenced him as child in his upbringing or other experiences that have effected in his climb in swimming, be it positively or negatively, .... is that OK with you......?..  | |||
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I have heard many stories of him being queer many times before. That has never diminished my respect for him as a hunter. His choice of how he lives his life was his alone, and no business of others. As he kept it to himself. How many of our own close friends and relatives are queer? Do we object to their choice of life style? Not unless they try to make it that theirs is better than mine, and try to make it that anyone who is not queer is an inferior human being, like most of the bloody celebrities are doing. | |||
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In correspondence with Mary, EH rather vividly describes his delight of a sexual role reversal, much like his published Garden Of Eden. Hemingway also had an older sister. I do not think it so much EH's mother wanted him to be a girl as much as she was just a dominating woman, (imagine that). | |||
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well what do ya know?.....  that would be a real let down for those who admire EH for his bold Alpha-male-ism | |||
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Source? Mary was interesting. I happen to think she was bisexual. But don't let crazyhorse hear that, he may think I actually care as compared to shooting the shit on a forum because I am bored. | |||
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Baxter, go easy, I think CHC may be in the stroke danger zone. Apparently he thinks all this blogging stuff is for real.  Mike | |||
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...backing away slowly from the keyboard... ;-) | |||
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I'd have to search thru my books to let you know which biographer it was; I certainly remember his account, while produced on a timeline, was rather apparent professional jealously tinted his view. It seems to me the author was granted access to the personal correspondence of EH at th JFK library. The Story, Garden of Eden, contained some of the same use of language as his letters. I thought Baker did the best job of all, (as a note, I have not read Gelhorn or Leicester's book). If I remember correctly, Mary lived in L.A., with a woman, for the remainder of her life after EH's death. And, not only did EH and his father commit suicide, his grand daughter did as well. I believ Greg died in jail after his sex change. | |||
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You are referring to Paul Hendrickson's book on Hemingway, "Hemingway's Boat" in which he (Hemingway) says about how Mary always wanted to be a boy and that he obliged her fantasies. He wrote this in her diary. He also says that he never had a inkling to touch another guy. Hendrickson is so psychosexually obsessed in the book as to be a distraction. Far too many questions thrown to the wind. Too many what if's with very tenuous links. He also kept going on about the 'secret' that Hem and Gig were supposed to have shared - inferring of course that Hem was gender-confused. A book that started OK, but narrowed to such a fine point as to turn around and prick its own author in the ass. | |||
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I seem to remember that about Hemingway's Boat now that you mention it, but I was thinking it was Meyer's bio, I'd have to check. Wasn't it Island's In The Stream EH described the youngest child as having the devil in him? I remember being irritated about Hendricksons emphasis of that. I guess it was his one original thought, the rest of the book being a repeat of already published material. | |||
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Many deaths in the Hemingway family due to self-inflicted gunshot and substance overdose. suicide took: Ernest by gunshot, his father Clarence by gunshot, his brother Liecester by gunshot, his sister Ursula, drug over-dose. his granddaughter Margaux by drug-overdose. Depression and mental problems afflict several generations of the Hemingways. | |||
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I believe you are correct about Islands in the Stream. Gregory was quite troubled - tortured really. And if memory serves me right Hem's brother Leicester an his sister Ursula also committed suicide. | |||
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Greg had a heart attack, wasn't suicide. | |||
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thanks for the correction. Ernest son Greg had interesting life also it seems, suffered depression and hit the booze like his father, Spent time in Africa hitting the booze and shooting elephants, Did his medical licence and practiced medicine, Lost his med. license due to his addiction, his wife had a problematic andication also, was married 4 times for 8 kids arrested 3 times for battery /aggrevated assault on police, was picked up by police for walking dow the street naked, became a woman later in life died in prison Ernests other son Jack(a hard drinker himself), had a daughter Mariel Hemingway, who is now (understandably) a high profile name representative for the mental health cause. She claims her father JACK, sexually abused her two older sisters, Margaux(suicided) and Joan (suffers serious Bi-polar). Mariel says her grandfather Ernest 'schooled' his son Jack, by taking him to a whorehouse when he was 13, Ernest would also take Jack fishing but never let him fish, jack just had to watch his father Ernest fish. Ernest also accused son Gregory for killing his own mother, saying their intense mother/son argument brought on her death. They heavily fell out over such irrational minded accusation, but he still personally carried the guilt father piled on him. | |||
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Alf, Have you ever been to FInch Hatton's place on the coast? | |||
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Phew Chc, something prodded you in the behind, was it the ghost of Taylor  | |||
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Agreed but apparently any mention of the above incites quite a reaction!
White Mountains Arizona | |||
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I agree Saeed but the fact he wrote a book about it wasn't keeping it to himself. I will report back after I have read it.
White Mountains Arizona | |||
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Very Interesting! I have heard snippets of this thanks for the history lesson! So this all may be "par for the course" it seems.......
White Mountains Arizona | |||
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A couple fun books to read on the happy valley set are The Bolter, and The Temptress. Crazy times there for sure. If I remember right Lord Delamere's farm was called Equator farm because the equator ran right through it. Kind of neat. | |||
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Got the 2 books started on "shadows of shame'. Very interesting book for 1956 that's for sure. Told in first person by an African boy. Very well written, very good details about life in East Africa at the time. The premise so far is correct. It is very taboo and seemingly sordid with many references to being jailed and expelled from the country for "liking" the natives. Will be a quick read and will post impressions at the end. Unlike any African book I have read so far that's for sure White Mountains Arizona | |||
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I am against the self promotion of the gay lifestyle. I cannot understand the lifestyle personally. I've read several of John Taylors books. I've always been fascinated by his writings and hunting experiences. Some years ago I heard the stuff about his lifestyle. Didn't affect me one bit. Didn't change my appreciation of his writings or hunting exploits. Elton John is as queer as a $3 bill, but I still like his music. Really who gives a shit what another person does with their life? As long as they are not getting in my grill, I don't care. | |||
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Mike, spot on. | |||
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