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Man, I must be awfully lucky in that in over a dozen African safaris and seven PHs, I have never had a PH say anything bad about a client. On a couple of occasions, I knew that he had hunted with a specific client and asked about how he was as a client. I got nothing but positive response. In one case a PH was hunting with a bow hunter that wounded and lost a croc, a hippo and an elephant cow. It happened that I hunted elephant with that PH the next year and asked about that hunter, again nothing but positive statements. On another occasion, I was in camp with another PH and his client who was obnoxious, petulant and out of shape. He was continually complaining about the food, the PH and the trackers. I won't mention the details because he posts on here. Again, I heard nothing bad said about this client by his or my PH although he surely deserved it. One PH that I will name is George Hallamore. He has always been positive when talking about a past client. George has had me stay at his home in Bulawayo on several occasions both before and after the hunt and has never asked me for a dime. I have reciprocated with gifts for his kids and a steak dinner for the family on each visit. If I could call any PH a friend it would be George. I really don't think that we spend enough time with any PH to really develop a close friendship. Although a casual friendship is very possible. What the PHs say between themselves, none of us can know for sure. Of course, we can say the same thing about our home town friends. 465H&H | |||
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We need to all chip in to send you to hunting rehab,surestrike! | |||
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the problem is that this is impossible unless you live in the African country or are hunting in Cameroon..... Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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You can hunt "self guided" in a lot more areas in Africa if thats what you like. | |||
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This statement from Frosbit sums it up for me
You can be friends with people you do business with and the friendships can last, but you have to keep business and the friendship separate. Whenever they start getting mixed up , sometimes feelings can be hurt and the friendships will be in trouble. Jerry Huffaker State, National and World Champion Taxidermist | |||
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Let us look at the converse. Would I offer my services to someone who is not a nice & friendly guy. In my business I sometimes do. But then I never feel comfortable with him. I may not trust him completely. I am careful with him because he could potentially spoil my reputation. An unfriendly customer is a real PIA. But my job is to offer the best possible service so that I can make a living from ALL my customers. Do I get service from someone who is unfriendly? Yes but only once - I never go back to him. Now - what about the one who looks and sounds friendly but is actually very guarded and aloof? Those are the ones to be most scared of. I could NEVER trust someone like that. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Who pays for a Guided Hunt/Fishing trip? The Client! Who decides who will be the operator used? The Client! Good guides, hunting or fishing, get a lot of free publicity and referrals from Who. Satisfied Clients! Just because a client, any client wants to become friends with a guide/PH/outfitter, it needs to be remembered that is a very peripheral part of the bigger picture. A friendship may develop or it may not. In booking the hunts I have went on as the client and the hunts I have conducted as the guide, I have never noticed anything in all the pertinent paperwork stating that becoming friends with anyone involved in the hunt, on either side of the equation, as being a "mandatory" part of the experience. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I am careful about who I call a friend and I hold my friends to standards of integrity just as they do me. We have no issues that way. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I once had a PH who would stay with us between shows whom I thought was a great friend as we had hunted together in the past. On one visit here he gave me a great sales spiel offering me a leopard hunt in an unspoilt area claiming we would do it like the old timers did things, the old-fashioned way. We'd hire porters and carry everything with us right down to the salt to salt the hides. We'd sleep under the stars and have none of the conveniences of modern life and would earn the leopard and other game the way Selous earned his a hundred years ago. He stressed that he would ONLY offer such a hunt to a true friend and someone he knew could take on such a hunt and it would just be two buddies hunting together just like if a pal and I were hunting together here in the states. I told him that I couldn't afford to do it at that time but would love to someday if circumstances changed. Later, when he thought I was out of earshot (I wasn't) I heard him on his cell phone with his partner. He told his partner, "I tried to sell that leopard hunt here but he isn't interested, call those Spanish clients and see if you can get them to bite". He's still welcome in my home but I've never felt quite the same about him since. | |||
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Those things certainly go on...no doubt. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I have to say I agree with Saeed. Almost all of my service providers for my business are friends too. If I don't like them enough to be friends with them...I damn sure ain't going to give them any of my hard earned money...if I can keep from it. That said...I expect a lot out of my friends, don't use the word freely, and hold them to the same set of standards as I hold myself too. J. Lane Easter, DVM DSC life member DRSS NRA Man, I must be awfully lucky in that in over a dozen African safaris and seven PHs, I have never had a PH say anything bad about a client. On a couple of occasions, I knew that he had hunted with a specific client and asked about how he was as a client. I got nothing but positive response. In one case a PH was hunting with a bow hunter that wounded and lost a croc, a hippo and an elephant cow. It happened that I hunted elephant with that PH the next year and asked about that hunter, again nothing but positive statements. On another occasion, I was in camp with another PH and his client who was obnoxious, petulant and out of shape. He was continually complaining about the food, the PH and the trackers. I won't mention the details because he posts on here. Again, I heard nothing bad said about this client by his or my PH although he surely deserved it. One PH that I will name is George Hallamore. He has always been positive when talking about a past client. George has had me stay at his home in Bulawayo on several occasions both before and after the hunt and has never asked me for a dime. I have reciprocated with gifts for his kids and a steak dinner for the family on each visit. If I could call any PH a friend it would be George. I really don't think that we spend enough time with any PH to really develop a close friendship. Although a casual friendship is very possible. What the PHs say between themselves, none of us can know for sure. Of course, we can say the same thing about our home town friends. 465H&H Two great posts. Not much to add. | |||
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Lane is a good guy and a friend, not sure why you chose to quote his words but that aside. The PHs I know (a small sample of half a dozen or so) have all talked shit about past clients one even breaking out a photo album of trophies his past clients had taken to make fun of how they dressed and ridicule them for poor shooting (Italian clients in that case). They all made inapproriate remarks about past client's wives and daughters (and a certain gunwriter's daughter) and one very well known PH who is a rock star on this forum got drunk in camp one evening and asked my wife if she liked "to get fucked by big cocks" right in front of me at the dinner table (PM me if you are curious and I'll tell you who). I should have popped his fat ass but I was so dumbfounded and shocked by his behavior I didn't know what to say or do. Fortunately, the other PH at the table told him to shut the hell up and go to bed and apologized for him. I don't hold these guys up on any higher pedestal than I do the guy who treats my house every month for bugs or the kid who rings up my groceries at the corner Kroger. | |||
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You obviously have an eye for quality when it comes to picking outfitters. Mike | |||
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Nothing but the best will do!  | |||
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Small question. As a client, how many of you consider a guide/PH/outfitter as a minor deity worthy of hero worship, or simply as a business man you will be doing business with??????????? Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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i am pretty sure such hunts are limited to former French colonies ( i.e. central Africa) with a chase libre tradition.. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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I don’t have the large amount of lengthy safaris for large bags of the big five other than Cape Buffalo and hippo, with a few of the so-called plains game for filler of days between my main targets. One other thing is all but one of my safaris have been one on one, so there were no women in my camps to draw any derogatory speech by anyone. I guess I’ve just been lucky, if the crap posted here is that common. I know that many here will find it hard to believe, but on safari I’m one of the easiest people you will find the get along with. In most cases the PH makes all the decisions on trophy quality, and range judgment but I know where my rifle shoots and where I hold is my business. Having said this I must say that the only time I have ever had a disagreement with a PH was on one occasion I was asked to re-zero my scoped 375H&H bolt rifle to be dead on at 100 yds, and I refused. I explained to the PH that my rifle was zeroed for “POINT-BLANK” shooting! I explained what that meant because he had never heard the term explained. My rifle was set 3 inches high at 100 yds which let me hold point blank from muzzle to 300 yds with my 300 gr handloads. My loads were cronoed at 2550 fps, and that setting made the trajectory +1/4 in @ 25 yds, +1/2 in @50 yds, +3in @100yds, +1 3/4in @150 yds, +/- 0 @200 yds, and only 4,1/4in low @250yds and about 12in low at 300 yds. And that I knew exactly were that rifle hit at all those ranges. If I had changed the setting, as it turned out, it might have caused me to lose the best Cookson’s wildebeest I’ve ever taken with two shots the first at 200 yds, he ran with the herd and stopped for second at 250 yds where the bullet holes were only 4 inches apart horizontally, and at the same level for elevation. I took six animals on that safari, and all but one were one shot kills. Only the buffalo and the Hippo were less than 100 yds. Only one time have I had a PH tell me about a former client, a person that I knew, getting scared and wanting to leave the blind on a lion bait to climb a tree with lioness sleeping all around the blind. He said to that client that he didn’t think he would make the tree before one of those cats was all over him. They had to spend the whole night in that blind, and the client was really miffed about the fact. He told me the client’s name because he knew that I knew the person. Other than those two instances everything has been positive with all my African PHs, and guides In both Canada and Alaska. ................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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No Mac, in reality, in real life, probably ever one of us, or the majority of us, are easy going people. Internet personnas tend to give a really exaggerated view of the individual. Excuse me for interrupting sir. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Why does it have to be either? As I have mentioned above, in dealing with others, one takes certain things in consideration, and hunting is no different. Funny enough, that was not the way it was with me. I had a short break, and I wanted to go hunt in Africa. I took whatever hunt was offered me on short notice. My intention was to go and have a good hunt, and that was the end of it. I knew absolutely nothing about the booking agent - in this case the Klinebergers in Seattle, Washing. All I knew about them was their advert in a hunting magazine. I went and met Mr Klineberger, told him I wanted to go on safari in the next couple of weeks!! He said he had a place in Zimbabwe - I cannot even remember that I knew anything about that country!!? I flew to Zimbabwe with my girlfriend, we were met at Vic Falls airport by our PH and taken to camp. Had a fantastic safari, and went back home. A few years later, I had the opportunity to go hunt again. And as I have had the service I expected from that outfit - Rosslyn Safaris - I found their advert in a hunting magazine and called them. I wanted to speak to the PH I hunted with - Roy Vincent. I was told he no longer works for Rosslyn, and that he was at another place called Westwood. The lady gave me his number, and I called them. His wife answered the phone. She did not know me from Adam - just a client asking questions about a hunt. I did not ask for her name, neither did she ask for my name. I asked what animals I can hunt on a 21 day safari. She told me elephant, lion, leopard and buffalo were all available. Jokingly I asked if they had any camels on quota. The penny dropped, and she suddenly remembered me?? As the previous hunt, Rene Vincent was home schooling her two young kids - Alan and Diana. They were both about 8-10 years old. And I remember carrying Diana on my shoulders - pretending top be a camel. Anyway, she remembered me, and I booked my next hunt with her. Again, had a great safari, and have been hunting with them every year ever since. I hunted with others in the meantime too. But, I certainly consider the Vincents, as our very close friends. I could repeat the above story about other friends I have who started off as doing business with. When I find someone who meets my needs, does his job very well, I will go to him for my next requirements. Once one deals with a certain individual on repeat occasions, each party is well aware of the behavior of the other, and both benefit. I think the above is even more true in today's world. Where one never knows who he is dealing with. A few weeks ago I bought a new car. I still have not paid for it. To register a car here one has to show a sales receipt. That receipt is to prove you have actually paid for it, or it is paid for with a loan from the bank. The company issued me a sales receipt - that they HAVE received the money for the car. While in fact I have not paid a penny. The CEO of that company is an old friend mine I have known for almost 40 years. I met him when he was the service manager in the workshop, and I had taken my car at that time for repair. We found we both liked the sea, and went diving together. A life long friendship developed, which is to the benefit of both of us. And I only deal with him, and was out of the country, his instruction was I take the car, and he will issue a bill when he is back. Just as I mentioned above, I like to deal with a known quantity if I can. That way both parties can avoid a lot of hassle, and add to their enjoyment. | |||
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+1  there is nothing that says you can't be friends with someone you do business with. in fact, i much prefer it.Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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Steve, I enjoyed your article and it is well written. That said I do tend to agree with Lane. As a business owner/medical professional I regularly deal with clients. Some I would prefer to avoid on all accounts and would completely avoid if I wasn't getting paid. Some are nice enough, but just not my kind of people. Some I really enjoy talking with and enjoy spending time in my office with, but I likely wouldn't go out of my way to spend my personal time with them. Some I really do enjoy and would even call them friends and would even take personal time to spend with them because I think they are good people and I enjoy their company. I would imagine most professionals of most professions have similar experiences with clients as what I outlined above. Don't throw the baby out. Just the bath water. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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Try and avoid the booths around the toilet at the back of the hall. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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I am not the one saying it has to be either. To me, and this is simply my personal view of things, if a friendship or rapport develops between two individuals in a business deal, that is great. If it does not, that is fine also. Not picking on Brett, just using his comments as an example here.
The thing that members of this site forget is that the thoughts and comments Steve included in that article, are his and are based on His Personal Experiences. Steve has his reasons for approaching things the way he chooses, and that does not make him unique, because we all do. Each of us have our own/individual parameters or concepts concerning our personal definition of what friendship means. I know plenty of folks that are great people to be around, fun to talk to, but to actually be friends with them, the price is higher than what I am willing to pay. A person can also get into situations where one party believes there is more to the "Friendship" than there actually is. I have seen plenty of those. So as I stated at the beginning of this post, it is not a case of "does it have to be either" but a case of different strokes for different folks, all depends on the attitudes/beliefs/concepts of the individuals actually involved. Maybe it is a case of business/professional people and their approach when dealing with other business/professional people, compared to just people dealing with professionals. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I conduct my business much the same. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I have been in the conv. store business for 24 years. Have met a lot of customers, salespeople, deliverymen, & service people. In each category I have found those that I became good friends with, one I call my baby brother & some that I have found very little about them I like. I am willing to socialize & befriend the ones I choose. The others I still use their services, I just spend the minimal time with them that I have too. I do not decide before I meet someone whether we will be friends or not. That's just my 2 cents worth. LORD, let my bullets go where my crosshairs show. Not all who wander are lost. NEVER TRUST A FART!!! Cecil Leonard | |||
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I've only been on one safari so I'm far from an expert on the subject. Our PH was a fantastic guy who we have kept in touch with. He pushed us and made our safari the trip of a lifetime. No, he's not my "BFF" but he is a guy I enjoyed spending time with and would look forward to doing it again. I really don't mind if we left him and the others with some fuel for laughter. In fact, I hope we did. | |||
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I hunt and travel for enjoyment and laughed each day about my blunders on my PG hunt at camp with thr staff, PH and the host family and hope I left an impression in wich to give them laughter for the future.....I certainly don't easily offend.....That being said Personality goes a long way.....If you lack good social skills you alteady are paying a price...sorry for your loss If you are a dick.....the world is full of ass....we dont need more I leave the boss/buisness attitude at my job.....as a mater of fact I do it every single day!!!! Treat people as you wish to be treated and be nice.....it has been tested hmmmmm....it works Some should try all of the above......you will create friends ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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I think it is important to define what you mean by a friend. I have people I know whom I interact with and have only friendly relations with them. These I term casual friendships. In other cases because I tend to spend more time with them, I term them close friends. It is difficult to develop a close friendship with an African PH simply because of the lack of ability to spend a lot of time with them. A close friend is one whom invites me along on various trips be they be a hunting trip, dinners out etc. I don't delude myself in thinking that a close friend doesn't have some things that I consider a fault. I look past these and have learned to live with them. Thinking about it, that same thing would apply to all of my relatives including my wife (please don't tell her I said that though  ). I also know that they feel the same way about me. When it comes to PHs, the ones I know don't have a very easy life at home in Zimbabwe. The cost of living there is quite high and they usually have a wife and kids to support and that always comes first. Private medical care and private schools are very expensive. but if a Zim PH wants to have a healthy well educated family, private schools and private medical care is the only way to go. I don't expect a PH to lose money when he deals with me. I don't treat a PH as a God, as I know they are all human and as such will have faults. If I can live with his faults and still enjoy my hunt, all is well for me. | |||
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Well said. Friends are 2 imperfect people tolerating each others faults. LORD, let my bullets go where my crosshairs show. Not all who wander are lost. NEVER TRUST A FART!!! Cecil Leonard | |||
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