Heading there Sept 3rd and cant get a good answer as of today?!..Anyone know up to date if this is happening in Tanz Now? Thanks!

I'm heading out for Dar on Sept 2, arriving Sept 3. Will spend Sept 4 at the SeaCliff. If you are around then, look for me in the bar. My outfitter is supposed to be getting the update today on the increases. Depending on how much they are, I may be forced to cancel. I will try to pass on what I find out as soon as I hear anything.

I appreciate the update if possible...I leave the 3rd for Arusha...Thanks!

I got an e-mail this morning from Tanzania and my outfitter/PH somewhat answering a question that many of us have which concerns the hunter's ability to back out of a deal with a refund if the fee structure truly comes down as it may be headed. He said in regard to my question of safari costs being well beyond what was anticipated, "We will keep you informed when the situation is clear to us pertaining to Game fees and block fees. Obviously all clients will have the option to review their safari should all be too excessive."
No doubt some safari operators are going to be quite financially vulnerable if a sizeable portion of their near-term bookings cancel.

Gee, do only guys from Georgia go to Tanzania? I leave in 8 days for Arusha. Nothing really from the outfitter.

"We will keep you informed when the situation is clear to us pertaining to Game fees and block fees."

The above that Spring received from his safari operator is all that really can be said at this point. We are still hoping for a positive outcome. As soon as I hear anything definite I will post it.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by JohnDL:
Gee, do only guys from Georgia go to Tanzania? I leave in 8 days for Arusha. Nothing really from the outfitter.

Until our football team starts playing as well as yours, we don't have as much of a reason to stay home!

Must be the "Peachs"! ......Man,I sure hope they absorb the extra cost,if any?!...I think it is the right thing for the Safari Company to do,first,we agreed t a certain price and 2nd,it will be appreciated by the hunters and I am sure,will be good cause for Repeat business!....But,if the company passes on rate hikes to us,well???...Any other opinions on this issue?

quote:

Originally posted by JohnDL:
Gee, do only guys from Georgia go to Tanzania? I leave in 8 days for Arusha. Nothing really from the outfitter.

Hopefully the outfitters won't just pass the bill on to clients who have already paid in full and are stuck. It will be interesting to see how the different companies handle this. This will be my 5th safari with the same firm. Depending on how they handle this, it may well be the last. I hope not. I consider the PH I hunt with as an old friend and would hate to see it end like this.

Dear concerned guests/hunters

I stand corrected BUT it is my understanding that Steve Robinson ( The Outfitter hunter Steve) is presently in Tanzania hunting so it may be an option or pertinent to try and get some feedback from Steve if humany possible as he is a frequent FORUM GUEST and should know the situation on the ground. I dont know if he will be reading this forum or if someone can maybe contact his SA home base for some idea if how to get hold of him

Kuduland Safaris - South Africa base

Cheers, Peter

Seriously, some companies can and will absorb all or some of the costs. Others just cannot do so unless they do it by offering a credit towards a future hunt. To expect that all outfitters should abosrb the entire cost is unreasonable from my view point. The outfitters do not just face the increse of block fees but - as explained on a diffeent thread - also the potential for lower trophy utilisation by clients. This has 2 effects;
1- Lower trophy fee collection, and, more importantly for the oputfitter
2- A substantial amount of payable "top-up" fee resulting from the overall low utilisation of quota.This all adds up to unmaneagable costs.

One operator tod me yesterday, his Net profit last year was $150K by operating 6 concessions! There are 4 partners in the firm who share this profit. His block fees total adds up to $280K. He is a good operator with a solid market base and a long history of operations in Tz.

I further wonder how many clients who expect the outfitters to absorb the entire costs now, would actually remain loyal and re-book considering the very high trophy fees that the industry would be stuck with? After all, by and large, that seems to be the very reason most who have posted here have stated they could not afford Tz anymore.

Mitch. As a business owner myself, I certainly empathize with the predicament that the outfitters may be placed. The PH I will(?) be hunting with is in his 60's. He started out in Kenya and when kicked out of there in '77 went to Tanzania, then to the Sudan, then back to Tanzania. I have nothing but admiration for the dedication it takes to stay in such a business where they must deal with such governments.

While I do not want the outfitters to be harmed, I do think they have an obligation to their clients. Just standing aside and saying "all of these expenses are now yours" is doing to the client what the government is doing to them. From my own perspective, I don't consider the trophy fees as coming from the outfitter, but from the government. If these are passed on, I won't like it, but will understand. I do think that those of us who have completely paid our safaris (including airfare, etc.) should not be placed in the position of having the daily rates unreasonably raised--with no recourse. I think that the outfitters should either largely eat these or give the client the option to cancel the safari without penalty.

As to the cost of safaris in Tanzania. As noted, these are already sky-high and most people cannot afford them now, notwithstanding any proposed rate increases. No doubt there are many who cannot afford Tanzania, whose reaction to this is "serves 'em right." If these people do not think that this will affect the actions of other countries, they are mistaken.

The reality is that Tanzania is already over-priced. If these price increases stand, it will be devastating to the industry. Putting questions of "loyalty" aside, I, and many others, probably won't be able to afford hunting there in the future.

John,
I understand what you are saying and I honestly think most of the operators will handle this matter in a satisfactory manner. However, there will be a handful of operators that if they absorb the entire additional cost themselves, will shut them down - and not because of poor management.

There are small operators out there who when faced with an immeadiate bill of $80K - $100K just will not be able to pay that. And if you don't pay a Gov Invoices, you end up in Jail!!!

quote:

If these price increases stand, it will be devastating to the industry. Putting questions of "loyalty" aside, I, and many others, probably won't be able to afford hunting there in the future.

DITO

Seloushunter

I operate a small business and if my business was asked to take on a 100K loss this year I may not be in business next year. If this sticks, I think there will be much less hunting going on with much less hunters involved and lots less outfitters and PH's operating in Tanzania. I have no doubt that the very rich will still hunt it without hesitation. That may be just what the government has in mind. I just hate it that is squeezes me and many on this forum out of the running. Wiedmanshiel

quote:

Originally posted by D Hunter:
I operate a small business and if my business was asked to take on a 100K loss this year I may not be in business next year. If this sticks, I think there will be much less hunting going on with much less hunters involved and lots less outfitters and PH's operating in Tanzania. I have no doubt that the very rich will still hunt it without hesitation. That may be just what the government has in mind. I just hate it that is squeezes me and many on this forum out of the running. Wiedmanshiel

I know of two local Hunters, one family has spent over $1,000,000.00 in Tanzania, they have 2008 and 2009 21 day hunts booked with one of the big concession owners and they will both cancel if anything close to the propossed rate increases happen.

So not all the rich will continue hunting.

Where is the SCI on this ISSUE !!!!!
Only a Website or a letter to the Minister or is there Serious work to Protect Hunters Worldwide.

A Wondering SCI Life Member
Seloushunter

I hunt here professionally and have a copy of the document passed by parliament outlining the fee increases for Trophys and Blocks. Absolutely ludicrous. I also understand operators are trying to reverse the situation, which will require another parliamentary approval.
We all await the outcome. Our income as a PH is being threatened by cancellations too.

Can anyone post a copy of the new trophy fees for all the animals?

I have only seen those for elephant and lion.

Allen, this was posted by Bwanamich in an earlier thread, perhaps NEIL-PH can confirm this is still current. SCI has released a spreadsheet too, but their's appears to reflect an outfitters pricing structure (which has been in the past higher then what the gov't charges).

Are you waiting to find out what the costs will be for what you shot?

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
This is the correct revised 2007 trophy fee

Thanks Bill,

Sorry I missed it from the previous post.

No, actually Pierre only collected off the old schedule. I was just curious about a trip I was thinking about next year.

Thanks for the schedule.

That is nice to hear Allen, I have been curious how the outfitters have handled this situation thus far with the fees uncertain.

All of this has made me wonder IF the trophy fees and concession prices do not increase this year (07) but go up in 08, will outfitters have capacity to book last-minute hunts for those wanting to get in under the wire. I saw at least one "cancellation" being offered in the back of the latest Hunting Report.

The list provided by Bwanamitch reflects the new prices as set by the Government. One thing not mentioned is the increase in Block Fees to the operators - from $10 000 to $50 000 for Game Reserve blocks and up to $40 000 for Wildlife Management Areas.

In fact, my list above has one or two small errors eg Baboon remains at $110. The NEW fee schedule as posted on SCI's website covering these events is the correct version as sent by me to them a while back.

http://www.tanzaniahunt.org/NewFees2007.pdf

Neil,
Welcome to the Forum. This issue, including the block fees, has been discussed in length under various threads. In all honesty, the majority of the new trophy fees (other than a handful of obvious ones) are not exagerated IMO. The thing that makes it difficult is that several outfitters charge a "Anti-poaching" levy on the Gov trophy fees to finance their Anti-poaching operations. With these new fees, many operators will no longer be able to tie the levy with the trophy fees in order to keep the latter acceptable. Outfitters will have to finance their Anti-poaching operations through other means which places a considerable direct strain on their cash-flow for the year. It is part of the outfitters concession contract obligation to carry out Anti-poaching activities and failure to do so could result in loss of hunting concession. Where will this money come from? It will be part of the daily rate or "concession fee" charged on to clients......

Mitch and Neil. In another thread, one of the posters stated that he had talked with his booking agent and outfitter and they unequivocally said that the new fees would not be in effect this year (2007). What is your understanding of this? Thanks.

Bottom line is that there has been NO thought processes here by Government, and NO consultation with the stakeholders despite a signed document acknowledging their required consultation prior to price adjustments.

The ramifications of such increases are huge, and the anti-poaching aspect is one of them. Basically an increase in any line of business needs to be passed on to the consumer - unfortunately in this case the client - how else does an operation continue profitably?

Common sense and logical thought processes would say consensus will be reached on an acceptable increase implementation at a later stage, however African governments have an uncanny knack of just doing the wrong thing!!!!

quote:

however African governments have an uncanny knack of just doing the wrong thing!!!!

John,
All statements by outfitters, agents, Don Causey, etc to that effect are based on a 1994 Consensus that was signed between the Stakeholders and the Game Dpt whereby a 9 months notice period by the Ministry to stakeholders needed to be observed with respect any price hike the Gov wished to make.

Legal advice taken by TAHOA indicate that based on this signed consensus, the Ministry has breeched this agrement when the issued the notice of price hikes and are therefore liable in court. Everyone's hope is riding on this one clause in the consensus and several other ones. A few more days will tell. TAHOA has exhausted every means, both politically and professionaly in attempting to reverse the Gov Notice. What remains is the High Court.

Thanks Mitch. Hopefully, there is such a thing as the rule of law in Tanzania. Since the rule of law doesn't always apply in the U.S., I can't begin to guess how this will play out.

quote:

What remains is the High Court

That is not a good Sign IMO

Seloushunter

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
John,
All statements by outfitters, agents, Don Causey, etc to that effect are based on a 1994 Consensus that was signed between the Stakeholders and the Game Dpt whereby a 9 months notice period by the Ministry to stakeholders needed to be observed with respect any price hike the Gov wished to make.

Legal advice taken by TAHOA indicate that based on this signed consensus, the Ministry has breeched this agrement when the issued the notice of price hikes and are therefore liable in court. Everyone's hope is riding on this one clause in the consensus and several other ones. A few more days will tell. TAHOA has exhausted every means, both politically and professionaly in attempting to reverse the Gov Notice. What remains is the High Court.

It sounds like TAHOA's only legal battle is with the issue of the the implementation of this new policy in 2007. Is it now becoming the general feeling that the new structure will be enforced as announced in 2008 and beyond?

Vic,
It is the industry's intention to participate in discussions with Gov over future price increases to ensure that these remain sustainable by the industry. TAHOA will play a leading role in this endevour once the current battle to prevent fee increases being implemented for the current 2007 season.

Yes, we can expect that there will be increases from 2008 but hopefully not exactly as they have been proposed by the Ministry.

It seems to my that the former excellent influence of a few Prominent TZ Outfitter by the Goverment is slowing down. When Increases for the 2007 Hunting season will stay the same it will by an enormous damage for Tanzania in the Future as an Reputable Hunting Country. Agreements and Contracts are worthlees....

Seloushunter

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
Vic,
It is the industry's intention to participate in discussions with Gov over future price increases to ensure that these remain sustainable by the industry. TAHOA will play a leading role in this endevour once the current battle to prevent fee increases being implemented for the current 2007 season.

Thanks, Mich. You've been a great resource on this and other issues in TZ. There are many of us with plans dependant on the news we find in your posts.

Mitch. I second Vic's "thanks." Also thanks to Neil. I'm off for Tanzania in the morning. My outfitter hasn't asked for any more money...

I'm not able to change the situation. I won't let it ruin my hunt.

Well,good news for me..My Safari Company Tanzania Game Tracker Safaris (TGTS) has sent me a email stating that though,everything is still unsettled,that they would honor my contract 07 prices! Yesss!..I leave Sept 3rd for 4 Buff.Hope to be using my 4 bore double,700AHR or 600AHR and maybe my new lil 6 1/2 pd 500 Jeffery Custom(570 BarnesX at 2200)...We are doing a HD Video of the entire hunt to be marketed this fall.."Dark Continent,Black Death"...and a subtitle suchs as Big Bore Bashers?or something catchy! Thanks TGTS!

Interesting Link on this Issue

http://www.go-on-safari.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=1031

Seloushunter

SafariKid:

Does your letter tell you if your trophy fees remain the same, or just your daily rate?

All rates for me are the same...Whew!

SafariKid:

Here is the reason is ask:

quote:

Surcharges
Although the Company hopes that it will not need to levy surcharges, it reserves the right to do so if this becomes necessary. The Company will endeavor to notify you in writing as soon as it is aware of any likely surcharge, and you must pay the amount of such surcharge no later than fourteen (14) days after written notification has been received (depending on the circumstances). If the surcharge is not paid within such time, the Company may constitute such non-payment as an act of cancellation on your part and the provisions of Paragraph 2 shall apply. Any refund made by the Company shall be in its sole and absolute discretion. For the purposes of this provision, surcharges may include, but are not limited to, additional costs levied by the government on safaris of your type, additional costs incurred by Suppliers as a result of new taxes, government charges and the like.

TGT, of course, is one of the best capitalized companies in Tanzania. They charge much more (and you may well get much more) than about any other safari company. Even though they have the "parachute" clause above, when time comes next year for your trophies to be sent home, I'll bet all fees will have been paid if that's what you have in writing... and, as John T. Arbuckle (sp?) used to say about coffee, "You get what you pay for.".... I hope, anyway.

But, and it's a big "but", I wonder what the heck will happen to a 21-Day client who has put down a $50K deposit for 2008. The above portion of the contract allows TGT to just tell them to send more money or lose their deposit.

Oh, well, if I could afford TGT, I wouldn't give a flip about chump change?